Mark B. Morrow Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...age_top+stories After more than a decade of offering customers vehicles that were merely gussied-up versions of less expensive models from Ford's lineup, the company is planning to roll out designs unique to Lincoln. The initial offering will be the four-door MKS sedan, to be introduced this fall. In 2010, Ford hopes to launch the luxury MKT crossover sport utility vehicle first unveiled at the Detroit auto show on Jan 14. A potential sports car is also on the drawing board. Does Kiley know something we don't or is this just wishful thinking? It appears from the article that he spent some time talking with Farley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...age_top+stories After more than a decade of offering customers vehicles that were merely gussied-up versions of less expensive models from Ford's lineup, the company is planning to roll out designs unique to Lincoln. The initial offering will be the four-door MKS sedan, to be introduced this fall. In 2010, Ford hopes to launch the luxury MKT crossover sport utility vehicle first unveiled at the Detroit auto show on Jan 14. A potential sports car is also on the drawing board. Does Kiley know something we don't or is this just wishful thinking? It appears from the article that he spent some time talking with Farley. I'm sure a Lincoln sports car would be on the board eventually. Could the MKR be considered a sports car? If so, maybe that's what he's referring to. I think, once the MKS gets online and after the new MKZ and MKT debut, it would be a good time to have a halo car for Lincoln -- whether it be a Mark type coupe or an MKR type vehicle. Lincoln will need something to attract buyers to the showroom (besides the other cars, of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I"m confused.... "After more than a decade of offering customers vehicles that were merely gussied-up versions of less expensive models from Ford's lineup, the company is planning to roll out designs unique to Lincoln. The initial offering will be the four-door MKS sedan, to be introduced this fall. In 2010, Ford hopes to launch the luxury MKT crossover sport utility vehicle first unveiled at the Detroit auto show on Jan 14. A potential sports car is also on the drawing board." Hmmm, isnt the MKS a gussied up Taurus, and the MKT a Flex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I"m confused.... "After more than a decade of offering customers vehicles that were merely gussied-up versions of less expensive models from Ford's lineup, the company is planning to roll out designs unique to Lincoln. The initial offering will be the four-door MKS sedan, to be introduced this fall. In 2010, Ford hopes to launch the luxury MKT crossover sport utility vehicle first unveiled at the Detroit auto show on Jan 14. A potential sports car is also on the drawing board." Hmmm, isnt the MKS a gussied up Taurus, and the MKT a Flex? Technically, yes....but he means rebadges, like MKZ or Mark LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 David Kiley is one of the worst journalists I have ever seen. I mean he makes the local newspaper's entertainment columnist look like a Pulitzer winner. He is, almost without doubt, the laziest and most frequently incorrect professional writer in Detroit. He insisted that the Jag X-Type was FWD. And when informed that it was AWD, he said that didn't count because it was FWD by default. And then he just shut up when someone pointed out that the X-Type has fulltime AWD with a 60% rear bias. He thought the Jag XK was based on the Aston Martin DB9. And I won't even =bother= to list the number of times he's screwed up Ford's numbers. Except for "$12.7B loss" I think he's got that written on a stickynote on his monitor. In fact, I'll bet he mentions that loss in the article..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Oh, and BTW, Old Style beer ROCKS. And I can't believe David Kiley didn't throw $12.7B in that article somewhere. People didn't rediscover Old Style just because it was, well, old style. It's also because it's dang tasty at $6/12 pack. Unlike Pabst and Old Mill. And Schlitz. Edited January 28, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 David Kiley is one of the worst journalists I have ever seen. I mean he makes the local newspaper's entertainment columnist look like a Pulitzer winner. He is, almost without doubt, the laziest and most frequently incorrect professional writer in Detroit. He insisted that the Jag X-Type was FWD. And when informed that it was AWD, he said that didn't count because it was FWD by default. And then he just shut up when someone pointed out that the X-Type has fulltime AWD with a 60% rear bias. He thought the Jag XK was based on the Aston Martin DB9. And I won't even =bother= to list the number of times he's screwed up Ford's numbers. Except for "$12.7B loss" I think he's got that written on a stickynote on his monitor. In fact, I'll bet he mentions that loss in the article..... I don't believe he mentioned it now that Ford only lost $2.6 billion (I think that's right) this year. And, I believe every journalist has a "$12.7B loss for Ford" sticker on their monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...age_top+stories After more than a decade of offering customers vehicles that were merely gussied-up versions of less expensive models from Ford's lineup, the company is planning to roll out designs unique to Lincoln. The initial offering will be the four-door MKS sedan, to be introduced this fall. In 2010, Ford hopes to launch the luxury MKT crossover sport utility vehicle first unveiled at the Detroit auto show on Jan 14. A potential sports car is also on the drawing board. Does Kiley know something we don't or is this just wishful thinking? It appears from the article that he spent some time talking with Farley. I kept hearing this complaint on this forum back when we were discussing the Cadillac CTS. Looks like pcsario's arguement carried some weight, because Ford is going to make the lincoln line distinctively different! Good for Ford they are changing the way they do business and making good descisions! I don't believe he mentioned it now that Ford only lost $2.6 billion (I think that's right) this year. And, I believe every journalist has a "$12.7B loss for Ford" sticker on their monitors. You just made the important distinction without knowing it, Ford lost money. Lincoln has bigger margins with their product because of their retail price. Now when they post earnings I know they don't show Lincoln seperately, but I'm sure the brand is turning enough profit to justify the investment in giving it their own platforms. Why pay the difference for a Lincoln over a fully loaded Ford or Mercury with the same body, drivetrain, and platform? Options are not enough to justify the difference in price, they are doing the right thing. They could keep it cheap through platform technology like in the past and risk volume loss. Or make the investment and if done right be able to increase volume or purchase price to bring the brand within the pricing for it's market! GM is doing well with the CTS on it's own platform! Edited January 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Oh GEEZ. Peter Horbury, a man whom pc trashes every chance he gets announced after coming over to Ford that the MKX was going to be the last Lincoln to share significant sheetmetal with a Ford. http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...1024/LATESTNEWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I kept hearing this complaint on this forum back when we were discussing the Cadillac CTS. Looks like pcsario's arguement carried some weight, because Ford is going to make the lincoln line distinctively different! Good for Ford they are changing the way they do business and making good descisions! I agree. I think Lincoln (and Ford) has a bright future ahead of it (them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 back to the sports car - once GRWDP is up and running MKR, its coupe sibling and flagship sedan are all very good bets for production. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) back to the sports car - once GRWDP is up and running MKR, its coupe sibling and flagship sedan are all very good bets for production. Igor The MKR was a bada-s concept and I was disappointed to here it and the Bronco concept were srapped, maybe Ford will regain it's sanity and follow through with putting them both into production. They are the only two concepts as of late I could acctually picture being in a showroom! Edited January 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 back to the sports car - once GRWDP is up and running MKR, its coupe sibling and flagship sedan are all very good bets for production. Igor And by flagship sedan, surely you mean RWD next-generation MKS, and possible LWB model if there is demand? The sportiest vehicle Lincoln will probably ever get would be a sort of 2+2 companion coupe for the MKR. To me, it's becoming very apparent that the MKR is going to be Lincoln's Cadillac CTS... a kind of tweener sports sedan straddling the 3-Series/5-Series price gap, with 5-Series size. I'm hoping for a convertible companion as well, if a 2-door comes to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The MKR was a bada-s concept and I was disappointed to here it and the Bronco concept were srapped, maybe Ford will regain it's sanity and follow through with putting them both into production. They are the only two concepts as of late I could acctually picture being in a showroom! Both will be in showrooms within 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Both will be in showrooms within 5 years. I hope you are right, I test drove a JEEP unlimited 4 door, and I just can't find it in myself to pull the trigger. I did learn something in my trek though, the warranty is 3 year 36,000 miles bumper to bumper, and the lifetime drivetrain is not transferable. They are not going to lose the farm over it because they are priced so that people can only afford to lease them. If all their customers bought out right thay would lose their a-s, so I don't really see the advantage from the customers standpoint unless just for bragging rights! Give me a Bronco in 4 doors and I'll sign on the dotted line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Jeeps are one of those vehicles that never seem to change because nobody else bothers to offer competition. I mean, yeah, they evolve slowly, but they are still basically the same: boxy, ride horribly, horribly cheap interior ... and yet their owners brag about what great vehicles they are. I had a guy at a party yesterday bragging about how how he could "crash through a snow bank" and then he was ragging on my Ford for its poor reliability. This is the same guy who always brings up the "Fox body Mustangs suck because they had too much horsepower for their frame." Uh huh. That's why Ford put more horsepower on almost the same frame in the next generation. Jeep owners are the oddest lot I've ever met. They seem compliant with their dumb little Jeep marketing slogans. "It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand." The funny thing is that their slogan is true, yet stupid at the same time. I don't understand the "Jeep thing" and neither do their owners apparently because they, year-after-year, compliantly accept the fact that their Jeep never seems to change. That is, it basically sucks. I can't believe people want to ride in that horrible little vehicle. People say they are fun because they have a short wheel-base. That's all I ever hear. They seem to neglect the fact that they never take it off-road, they have anemic, underpowered engines, they ride horribly (do I have to say it again), their interior is like being in a 1980s Gremlin, and the list goes on. The only thing they do well is being offroad, and even there, they aren't fantastic. My buddy has had to pull several CJ7s out of ditches on the trails with his F-250 4x4 because they CJ7s will get wedged in between the ditch with their "superior" short wheel-base. Edited January 28, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I kept hearing this complaint on this forum back when we were discussing the Cadillac CTS. Looks like pcsario's arguement carried some weight, because Ford is going to make the lincoln line distinctively different! Good for Ford they are changing the way they do business and making good descisions! Well, I don't know if pc's argument carries any more weight just because they are going to more unique designs NOW. He wanted tons of money spent on unique models years ago. I still believe that the path they took with simple rebadges was the absolute RIGHT thing to do at the time. Money was tight, and they need volume at Lincoln. The simple rebadges did the job they were meant to do. They increased volume at Lincoln rather significantly. I don't think anyone was clamoring for more rebadges at Lincoln, but some of us were realistic enough not to expect anything more at the time. Now that the situation seems to be improving (because of some wise decisions like the MKZ and MKX-- in hindsight), I don't think you'll find anyone who will still insist on simple rebadges. NOW we can start to look forward to some truly unique products, but to have expected it several years ago during the thick of the restructuring was an unattainable pipe dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Oh, and BTW, Old Style beer ROCKS. And I can't believe David Kiley didn't throw $12.7B in that article somewhere. People didn't rediscover Old Style just because it was, well, old style. It's also because it's dang tasty at $6/12 pack. Unlike Pabst and Old Mill. And Schlitz. This is absolutely the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I would be surprised if the MKR happens, I don't see a coupe returning to Lincoln soon (the MKR was a 4-door coupe btw). By the time it does, the market may change again. Edited January 28, 2008 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I would be surprised if the MKR happens, I don't see a coupe returning to Lincoln soon (the MKR was a 4-door coupe btw). By the time it does, the market may change again. Could be, maybe Ford's design team needs to have good solid designs in every segment with plans to employ production as soon as they see a change in the market without releasing the concepts until they are slated for production. Be ready, identify the new market potential, and strike while the iron is hot! This would explain their current investments into flex plants! You are whitnessing the evolution of the auto industry folks! Edited January 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The question is, will the next Fusion platform have a 2-door model? If so, then a Lincoln coupe might happen sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I don't think we'll see a Fusion coupe before the 2nd generation which is suppose to be on the fast track after the '09 facelift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I agree, but if the next CD car has a 2-dr coupe, an AWD 400hp EcoBoost 3.7 Lincoln 'Super-Z' could do well, especially if gas goes to $4+/gallon. The CTS-V will have its champions, but that's a BIG V-8 in a $4 world. Likewise, the turbo BMW V-8. If you need 500 hp, the car's too big and heavy. Hmm . . . just noticed I have inflicted my delusions 2,000 times . . . . too dumb to quit, I guess. Edited January 28, 2008 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I think we'll see a Mustang based Lincoln coupe, before we see a Fusion coupe...mainly because the Fusion has variations off it's platform, while Mustang is the sole vehicle on that platform. TO make it viable, other cars should be spun off it's platform....This can easily happen if they engineer a new RWD platform, that would accomdate 2 and 4 doors, and AWD...a be all, and end all...I wouldnt be surprised if this is their direction for obvious reasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 back to the sports car - once GRWDP is up and running MKR, its coupe sibling and flagship sedan are all very good bets for production. Igor That sounds VERY promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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