silvrsvt Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Is it based on the Mazda MRZ 2.0/2.3L Enigne? If So what are the improvements to it? I was under the impression that the 2.5L was supposed to be a brand new engine or a heavly redone MRZ egine since FNA and FOE wasn't impressed by the MPG out of the Mazda engine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I've heard it's a bored/stroked 2.3. However, I would be surprised if it doesn't have all new everything above the deck. New balance shaft, new head design, new intakes, new PCM, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) I've heard it's a bored/stroked 2.3. However, I would be surprised if it doesn't have all new everything above the deck. New balance shaft, new head design, new intakes, new PCM, etc. It better not be, otherwise it will be a flop. Just like it's predecessor. Edited February 2, 2008 by LincolnFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 It better be, otherwise it will be a flop. Just like it's predecessor. agree,,,,sooner or later Ford has to engineer out buzziness, this is an area I will wholeheartedly state that The imports, mainly honda have our ticket....smooth as Ashly Judds freshly shaven legs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Part of that is the use of a timing chain. Ford can't get away with using a rubber belt to drive the cams. You'd have the internet full of "My timing belt broke at 98,000 miles and Ford did nothing!!!!! FORD SUCKS!!!!!" And people wouldn't like paying upwards of $600 to replace the thing either. Stick an extra quilt's worth of sound insulation between the engine and passenger compartment and use drive-by-wire so you can't feel the NVH through the accelerator. Edited February 1, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Part of that is the use of a timing chain. Ford can't get away with using a rubber belt to drive the cams. You'd have the internet full of "My timing belt broke at 98,000 miles and Ford did nothing!!!!! FORD SUCKS!!!!!" And people wouldn't like paying upwards of $600 to replace the thing either. Stick an extra quilt's worth of sound insulation between the engine and passenger compartment and use drive-by-wire so you can't feel the NVH through the accelerator. yet the "unmentionables" ( brand names with held due to side effects which may include nimrods such as you know who giving their yens worth ) get away with it....hey, i would be tempted to do the same as most don't keep their vehicles that long and obviously certain manufacturers don't care too much about thier used car rap.....AND in their manuals it mentions in the maintenence tha fact that timing belts need to be replaced ( If I remember rightly it was 60k in our old Integra )...people are oblivious to long term maintenence costs...witness how many vehicles with BELTS still sell, and are pursued used.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Yeah, well, when your number 2, you have to try harder. Edited February 1, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yeah, well, when your number 2, you have to try harder. annoys the be-jesus out of me how the scribes always comment on inherant smoothness...sure would be nice for a mention at the compromise, the reason why and consequent maintenence savings down the road..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yeah, well, when your number 2, you have to try harder. who do you work harder for....#2......Austin Powers...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Part of that is the use of a timing chain. Ford can't get away with using a rubber belt to drive the cams. You'd have the internet full of "My timing belt broke at 98,000 miles and Ford did nothing!!!!! FORD SUCKS!!!!!" And people wouldn't like paying upwards of $600 to replace the thing either. Stick an extra quilt's worth of sound insulation between the engine and passenger compartment and use drive-by-wire so you can't feel the NVH through the accelerator. Did you not get the helical gears on camshafts & crankshafts we have had them on a number of Ford engines Richard? Edited February 1, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Nope. We get straight cut gears & timing chains. It is an eminently justifiable part of the Ford NA cookbook--Ford has certainly been known to screw things up, however, their standards for durability are probably some of the toughest in the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 This is what we know about the new 2.5 I4: FORD DELIVERS BETTER FUEL ECONOMY, MORE POWERFOR ESCAPE, MERCURY MARINER; EXPANDS E85 FLEET Featured Stories Press Releases 2009 Ford Escape 2009 Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner crossovers improve fuel efficiency with new, more powerful I-4 and V-6 engines and 6-speed transmissions. Ford’s full-hybrid Escape and Mariner gain performance and refinement improvements for 2009. Ford adds three vehicles to its flexible fuel (FFV) line-up for the 2009 model year – Ford Expedition, Lincoln Navigator SUVs and Ford E-Series Econoline vans. Ford and Southern California Edison showcase 120-mpg Escape Plug-in Hybrid. WASHINGTON, D.C., Jan. 22, 2008 – Today at the Washington Auto Show and Automotive News World Congress in Detroit, Ford Motor Company announced its hot-selling compact SUVs, the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner, will become more fuel efficient, more powerful and more connected for the 2009 model year. Ford also announced that it is expanding its commitment to biofuels by adding three additional vehicles to its E85-capable flexible fuel line-up for 2009 – the E-Series van, as well as the standard and extended-length models of the Expedition and Lincoln Navigator SUVs. These additional product actions are part of Ford’s sustainability strategy, which also includes high-volume introductions of EcoBoost gas turbocharged direct injection engines. Speaking today at Automotive News World Congress in Detroit, Ford Motor Company President and CEO Alan Mulally met with industry leaders and media to share today’s announcement and discuss how Ford is accelerating the development of new products and technologies customers want and value. Mulally also reaffirmed that Ford will reach benchmark levels of new or significantly freshened products, delivering a showroom with 70 percent new or freshened vehicles by the end of 2008 and 100 percent by 2010. “This year, we make good on our commitment to freshen our showrooms,” Mulally said. “We just introduced the new 2009 Ford F-150 last week, and it was a hit. We also have Lincoln MKS and Ford Flex coming, as well as a new Mustang early next year.” At the Washington Auto Show, Sue Cischke, Ford senior vice president, Sustainability, Environment and Safety Engineering, outlined the company’s high-volume customer-focused strategy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve fuel economy. “Ford Motor Company is increasing fuel economy and cutting greenhouse gas emissions with affordable technologies for millions of customers,” said Cischke. “In the near term, we will leverage existing technologies to achieve those goals, including advanced engines and multi-speed transmissions. The 2009 Escape and Mariner are great examples of how we’re delivering today.” 2009 Mercury Mariner Fuel-efficient new 2.5-liter Engine The new 2009 Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner make strides in fuel economy and emissions with a new, 2.5-liter engine and a smooth new fuel-saving 6-speed automatic transmission. Not only is the new powertrain expected to improve the Escape and Mariner’s EPA estimated fuel economy by 1 mile per gallon, it will also give the customer an 11 percent increase in horsepower to 170 horsepower. The new 2.5-liter engine with intake variable cam timing (IVCT) boasts a 17-horsepower increase in output over the outgoing 2.3-liter engine. Responsive with its peak 166 ft. lb. of torque, the engine also is refined, with dual-mode crankshaft damping, electronic throttle control and PowerPC engine electronic control. The anticipated 1 mpg improvement in fuel economy will make Escape and Mariner more than competitive in the segment. With the improvements, Escape and Mariner also achieve ULEV II emissions certification. MORE REFINED WTIH DUAL-MODE CRANKSHAFT DAMPING, ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROLA AND POWER PC ENGINE ELECTRNIC CONTROL. LOOKS TO ME LIKE FORD IS TRYING TO SMOOTH OUT ENGINE WITH DUAL-MODE CRANKSHAFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Nope. We get straight cut gears & timing chains. It is an eminently justifiable part of the Ford NA cookbook--Ford has certainly been known to screw things up, however, their standards for durability are probably some of the toughest in the business. No snapped belts or big bills to replace belts on this engine Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 No snapped belts or big bills to replace belts on this engine Richard along with the best sounding V8 idle...ahhhh, the days of roller tappets......hold it are those roller tappets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 No snapped belts or big bills to replace belts on this engine Richard AFAIK, gear driven OHC engines are even noisier than chain driven ones. And Ford don't make OHV engines anymore. Except for the aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Ford does at least use "silent cam" valvetrains, where the crankshaft spins only one of the camshafts directly, with the other being driven by a secondary chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) yet the "unmentionables" ( brand names with held due to side effects which may include nimrods such as you know who giving their yens worth ) get away with it....hey, i would be tempted to do the same as most don't keep their vehicles that long and obviously certain manufacturers don't care too much about thier used car rap.....AND in their manuals it mentions in the maintenence tha fact that timing belts need to be replaced ( If I remember rightly it was 60k in our old Integra )...people are oblivious to long term maintenence costs...witness how many vehicles with BELTS still sell, and are pursued used.... Heh, just about every Lexus needs a $3k service for the belt for it to cross the 100k mile mark. The LX470 has a hydroelastic suspension that does not hold up past 75k miles and costs roughly $6000 to repair at the dealer, add in frequent brake jobs, the timing belt and other things and it quickly exceeds $15000 in maintenance(outside oil changes) for an LX(and EU LandCrusier) owner to break the 100k mark....The past 4 in a row we had traded had bad suspensions under 100k miles. The chain driven VQ makes the Infiniti products vastly superior to Lexus junk for this reason.(G vs ES/GS) for instance. ALthough most Lexus owners lease for 3 years and never see them fall apart, hence the ultra high quality ratings... Edited February 1, 2008 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Ford does at least use "silent cam" valvetrains, where the crankshaft spins only one of the camshafts directly, with the other being driven by a secondary chain. I don't give a fuck about what people crybaby about modulars online, the 4.6 3V is an amazing engine. The D35 is also world-class by all means and the new GM/Ford 6F auto is better then just about any other 6A on the market at any price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't give a fuck about what people crybaby about modulars online, the 4.6 3V is an amazing engine. The D35 is also world-class by all means and the new GM/Ford 6F auto is better then just about any other 6A on the market at any price. I remember all the BLEATING when the 4.6 replaced the venerable 5.0...it was from the service techs due to the massive drop in warranty claims...and the 5.0 was a fantastic engine...says a lot for the 4.6.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Heh, just about every Lexus needs a $3k service for the belt for it to cross the 100k mile mark.The LX470 has a hydroelastic suspension that does not hold up past 75k miles and costs roughly $6000 to repair at the dealer, add in frequent brake jobs, the timing belt and other things and it quickly exceeds $15000 in maintenance(outside oil changes) for an LX(and EU LandCrusier) owner to break the 100k mark....The past 4 in a row we had traded had bad suspensions under 100k miles. The chain driven VQ makes the Infiniti products vastly superior to Lexus junk for this reason.(G vs ES/GS) for instance. ALthough most Lexus owners lease for 3 years and never see them fall apart, hence the ultra high quality ratings... I WISH there was a publication that gave a breakdown of cost of ownership over a specified mileage ( say 100 k ) if all maintenence was observed by the owners..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Ford does at least use "silent cam" valvetrains, where the crankshaft spins only one of the camshafts directly, with the other being driven by a secondary chain. I owned V6 Cologne in 87 Capri the engine had the helical set-up the engine sounded awesome, do you know Richard if Ford will be using the Cologne engine in the next generation of Mustang, if they did it would make it a viable option for the European market. Ford no longer sell a muscle/sports car here but it could be one of those global cars that everybody at Ford wants. I would buy one if Ford ever sold it it in Europe, there are lot of folk that like the Mustang over this side of the pond it's just the EU laws that might put the dampers on it. The cologne engine has been fitted in a lot of vehicles, it was first used in the early 60's and might still find it's way into a Mustang in the future, it's amazing. Edited February 1, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I WISH there was a publication that gave a breakdown of cost of ownership over a specified mileage ( say 100 k ) if all maintenence was observed by the owners..... Edmund's publishes it in their TOC. However, they include depreciation (from MSRP - not expected sale price) that gets people looking past the maintenance costs, when really, their attention has been unnecessarily diverted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Edmund's publishes it in their TOC. However, they include depreciation (from MSRP - not expected sale price) that gets people looking past the maintenance costs, when really, their attention has been unnecessarily diverted. little misleading to say the least.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I owned V6 Cologne in 87 Capri the engine had the helical set-up the engine sounded awesome, do you know Richard if Ford will be using the Cologne engine in the next generation of Mustang, if they did it would make it a viable option for the European market. Cologne is dead. To be replaced by the Duratec 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 No snapped belts or big bills to replace belts on this engine Richard What engine is that ? Every production V8 I have ever seen has a chain. (There are after market kits for Chevy V8 to convert them to gear drive) The camshaft is a long way from the crank on an inline OHC engine. It would probably require a couple of idlers to make it work. Besides being expensive, it would probably increase the overall length on the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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