THE LIST?

[level]

This isn't true, I'm almost 100% positive that all 16 of us signed up for something.

 

Level, you seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to these matters, so I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

 

1) If ACH plants have certain trades in JSP, are they combined with Ford plants that also have JSP's, and thus put in the same seniority pool for Ford job postings?

 

2) Under current contractual language, If trades are never "offered" a job (and by offered, I mean not enough seniority to obtain a job opening) , are we still only limited to 2 years in the JSP? ...... There's an ongoing debate about this, amongst us Wixom JSP'ers.

 

The way I read the contract, it sounds like 2 years is the Max in JSP...Unconditionally. Am I wrong? I sure hope so.

 

Thanks for your help brother.

 

On question #1 Yes. The zones are set up with ACH plants in them and they do count if they have JSP pools.

 

A.)It goes to the requesting plant's own laid off or JSP first,

 

B.) Then to the "in-zone plants" with JSP's for "volunteers" ( To answer your first question, if you look at the zones page 122A through 125A you will see that ACH plants are in the zones, but this only matters if there is someone in the JSP there)

 

 

On question #2 No, you are not limited to two years.

 

There are provisions on page 164C to 165C that extend the time of those who did not recieve at least 2 job offers within two years, indefinitely until "1" offer is made that you must then take or go inactive status. Realize this means you can go two years, never get any offers, get extended and the one offer you do get, you must take. (It is not extended until you get a total of 2 offers)

[level]

I would also like to know when SRP bid on these job's

The only plant's that were on our oiginal posting's were MSP, Wixom & Rawsonville. I have never herd of SRP can someone tell me is it RD, ACH, FORD???

For SRP to be in the mix for these job's they would have had to have had it posted at the same time. If SRP was added later they should not be on this list for placement.

HR told us that the postings are to have all the plants listed that are biding on these job's. If a plant is added after the time is up. Than all bids for those job's are to be thrown away and a new posting will be put up and you can bid on the same job only with more plant's OR that plant that they want to add (Company or Union) can wait for the next opening's

I know our Chairman did alot of calling around to make sure of the plant's that were bidding on these job's for our skilled trades and SRP ( Sheldon Road) was NOT one of them.

 

Brother, one thing you need to remember to help you understand how the placement hierarchy works, is the fact that these are not "bids". Also remember that if you are in a JSP pool, you are automatically included, there is no sign up (bid) necessary to be put on preferential placement.

 

The term bid means tends to make you think that you get it by seniority of all the plants bidding. That is not how it works at all.

 

For example, Ohio Assembly needed some trade, let's say pipefitter. Other plants may have posted the openings (?), but the in-zone plants with pipfitters in JSP had their low seniority forced. So the "youngest" pipefitters in JSP at Walton Hills, Cleveland Engine and Sandusky are sent there before any senior "out of zoner" or flowback and that is without "bidding" or signing up for anything.

 

I hope that helps clear it up a little brother, it is very confusing.

 

The hierarchy allows for "volunteers" not "bidders".

[greasemonkeysteve]

I know the Industrial Truck list is not out yet, it had inherent problems and will be out soon.

 

There are also other factors that figure into this and reduce the number of spots, such as trades working the line. If they took a reduction to stay working, they are considered protected status and they return first at their plant, before anyone comes in from another under the placement hierarchy (first step protected status, indefinite layoff in plant). Another factor that reduces the amount is RTBU (if the person accepts it).

There were a few of these, but not many.

 

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "inherent problems"? Also, I was told by one of the Wixom mechanics that a union rep told him that all in-zone plants were reposted for Industrial Truck. Can anyone at another plant confirm this? Would this new posting cancel the previous results?

[mrballsonya]

On question #1 Yes. The zones are set up with ACH plants in them and they do count if they have JSP pools.

 

A.)It goes to the requesting plant's own laid off or JSP first,

 

B.) Then to the "in-zone plants" with JSP's for "volunteers" ( To answer your first question, if you look at the zones page 122A through 125A you will see that ACH plants are in the zones, but this only matters if there is someone in the JSP there)

 

 

On question #2 No, you are not limited to two years.

 

There are provisions on page 164C to 165C that extend the time of those who did not recieve at least 2 job offers within two years, indefinitely until "1" offer is made that you must then take or go inactive status. Realize this means you can go two years, never get any offers, get extended and the one offer you do get, you must take. (It is not extended until you get a total of 2 offers)

 

Thanks for all the info Level, It's much appreciated. :beerchug:

[level]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "inherent problems"? Also, I was told by one of the Wixom mechanics that a union rep told him that all in-zone plants were reposted for Industrial Truck. Can anyone at another plant confirm this? Would this new posting cancel the previous results?

 

I am not exactly sure, but it was incorrect due to the HR at some plants incorrectly reporting their Protected status employees or something like that, but rather than hold the whole list up, they decided to post the rest. It should be out very soon though.

[mulewright]

Brother, one thing you need to remember to help you understand how the placement hierarchy works, is the fact that these are not "bids". Also remember that if you are in a JSP pool, you are automatically included, there is no sign up (bid) necessary to be put on preferential placement.

 

The term bid means tends to make you think that you get it by seniority of all the plants bidding. That is not how it works at all.

 

For example, Ohio Assembly needed some trade, let's say pipefitter. Other plants may have posted the openings (?), but the in-zone plants with pipfitters in JSP had their low seniority forced. So the "youngest" pipefitters in JSP at Walton Hills, Cleveland Engine and Sandusky are sent there before any senior "out of zoner" or flowback and that is without "bidding" or signing up for anything.

 

I hope that helps clear it up a little brother, it is very confusing.

 

The hierarchy allows for "volunteers" not "bidders".

Level,

The problem as I see it is in the way it is being implimented. When you say " if an employee in JSP is placed, that opening will be offered to all employee's within that classifcation within the plant and given to the highest senority employee in that plant who wants to move and then his/her position will be backfilled from that plants JSP" ... sounds reasonable ... The problem is the way that is being determined (by using the employee who will be doing the backfilling's senority) that the opening is going to an employee who is working and may not be in any danger of losing his job and the opening created by him/her leaving will be filled by an employee from that plants JSP leaving folks in JSP at other plants out in the cold.

[MSP Worker]

Once again Level thanks for the clarification. I guess no system will be perfect. Using your example of a Pipe fitters needed at Ohio Assembly. In a perfect world, If they needed 4 pipefitters, but had 2 pipefitters in JSP at Walton Hills, they should only put up a posting for the 2 pipefitters they need from out of zone. By placing a posting that says 4 openings, when there really only 2 available just causes confusion. However that would probably make the entire process take even longer. So either way folks won't be happy. I think the best thing we can do is to keep the conversations going as these issues come up. Level and some others are doing a great job keeping information moving around. I know alot of the Reps take a beating on here, some deserve it some don't. I don't know for a fact Level is a International Rep, but I assume he is. And if he is, then he is doing us a great service with this information. Keep up the good work, it's good to know that people up north still care.

 

Ok I forgot this is where I was for a second, I am suposed to bash the Union and Company on here. Level, you suck! You are a no good piece of :slug: Just kidding guy, thanks again.

[Footballfan]

off-topic

 

 

I noticed they repainted the Ford sign in front of the Wixom Plant all white. Sad.

 

At least Maumee has a future with the new buyer.

[MSP Worker]

At least Maumee has a future with the new buyer.

 

 

Sure if you want to risk 16k for a job. I hope people dig into the details before handing a check over to the new buyer. It's a damn shame when you have to pay for a job.

[level]

Once again Level thanks for the clarification. I guess no system will be perfect. Using your example of a Pipe fitters needed at Ohio Assembly. In a perfect world, If they needed 4 pipefitters, but had 2 pipefitters in JSP at Walton Hills, they should only put up a posting for the 2 pipefitters they need from out of zone. By placing a posting that says 4 openings, when there really only 2 available just causes confusion. However that would probably make the entire process take even longer. So either way folks won't be happy. I think the best thing we can do is to keep the conversations going as these issues come up. Level and some others are doing a great job keeping information moving around. I know alot of the Reps take a beating on here, some deserve it some don't. I don't know for a fact Level is a International Rep, but I assume he is. And if he is, then he is doing us a great service with this information. Keep up the good work, it's good to know that people up north still care.

 

Ok I forgot this is where I was for a second, I am suposed to bash the Union and Company on here. Level, you suck! You are a no good piece of :slug: Just kidding guy, thanks again.

 

Your right, I believe things will go a lot smoother the next time brother.

[Shortimer]

OK Level heres a question for ya,

 

In your honest opinion, do you think all trades will be eventually placed? Also, if a Trades-Person with no production seniority takes a production slot, will you have to take DOE into your new classification. I only have 7-1/2 years as a tradesman with Ford, so I'm thinking, I'd be safer jumping ship so to speak, and going for a production opening?

[Captain723]

OK Level heres a question for ya,

 

In your honest opinion, do you think all trades will be eventually placed? Also, if a Trades-Person with no production seniority takes a production slot, will you have to take DOE into your new classification. I only have 7-1/2 years as a tradesman with Ford, so I'm thinking, I'd be safer jumping ship so to speak, and going for a production opening?

Under the old agreement there was no way to go to production...the new agreement allows you too!!

[Westside]

OK Level heres a question for ya,

 

In your honest opinion, do you think all trades will be eventually placed? Also, if a Trades-Person with no production seniority takes a production slot, will you have to take DOE into your new classification. I only have 7-1/2 years as a tradesman with Ford, so I'm thinking, I'd be safer jumping ship so to speak, and going for a production opening?

 

Let me give Level a break............

 

 

If a Trades-Person with no production seniority takes a production slot, will you have to take DOE into your new classification?

 

If you choose to go back to production and stay in your current unit you will take a new DOE.

 

If you choose to go to production and leave your current unit you will be able to take your full 7 1/2 years as your production seniority to your new unit.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Westside

[Shortimer]

Let me give ole Level a break............

 

 

If a Trades-Person with no production seniority takes a production slot, will you have to take DOE into your new classification?

 

If you choose to go back to production and stay in your current unit you will take a new DOE.

 

If you choose to go to production and leave your current unit you will be able to take your full 7 1/2 years as your production seniority to your new unit.

 

Well, I'm at an ACH facility so no going into to production here. (closed or sold) My BTU rites are to Wixom, but no such luck there either. :titanic:

 

So, if your correct then I'd carry my seniority over into a production opening, at my new location?

 

Thank you

[level]

Well, I'm at an ACH facility so no going into to production here. (closed or sold) My BTU rites are to Wixom, but no such luck there either. :titanic:

 

So, if your correct then I'd carry my seniority over into a production opening, at my new location?

 

Thank you

 

Westside is correct, if you do not have production seniority you would get new DOE in production at your home plant, but be able to carry full seniority if you are preferentially placed. This is per an older Letter of Understanding circa 1986 or so.

[norfolkbutcher]

I think you need to look again on that Electrician. I see no MTP Electrician anywhere on the DTP receiving list brother.

There is an electrician on the list from NAP. He has been waiting 2 months and is collecting 85% while he is waiting.

[norfolkbutcher]

There is an electrician on the list from NAP. He has been waiting 2 months and is collecting 85% while he is waiting.

I'm correcting myself. He said he was on the list for the Rouge. So why does it take so long? Not one plant in the Rouge needs an electrician?

[rc3177]

On question #1 Yes. The zones are set up with ACH plants in them and they do count if they have JSP pools.

 

A.)It goes to the requesting plant's own laid off or JSP first,

 

B.) Then to the "in-zone plants" with JSP's for "volunteers" ( To answer your first question, if you look at the zones page 122A through 125A you will see that ACH plants are in the zones, but this only matters if there is someone in the JSP there)

 

 

On question #2 No, you are not limited to two years.

 

There are provisions on page 164C to 165C that extend the time of those who did not recieve at least 2 job offers within two years, indefinitely until "1" offer is made that you must then take or go inactive status. Realize this means you can go two years, never get any offers, get extended and the one offer you do get, you must take. (It is not extended until you get a total of 2 offers)

 

 

When do the 2 years start? Is it from our entry date into the GEN/JSP or is it from the contract ratification? I have been in GEN for over a year now with no offers.

[abach1969]

There is an electrician on the list from NAP. He has been waiting 2 months and is collecting 85% while he is waiting.

 

 

 

and he is happy wait a long time...

[level]

When do the 2 years start? Is it from our entry date into the GEN/JSP or is it from the contract ratification? I have been in GEN for over a year now with no offers.

 

Entry date into the JSP, (but it restarts every time you get pulled out also)

[takeme back 2blue]

Entry date into the JSP, (but it restarts every time you get pulled out also)

Level once again, can you shed any light on the KCAP trades transfer situation? Any clue when it will be resolved? :shades:

[level]

Level once again, can you shed any light on the KCAP trades transfer situation? Any clue when it will be resolved? :shades:

 

I will have to check into that. Since the report date discussions are all "plant to plant issues" I have not been in the loop. They were all told to communicate with eachother and set dates for each transferring employee, that much I do know.

[Captain723]

I will have to check into that. Since the report date discussions are all "plant to plant issues" I have not been in the loop. They were all told to communicate with eachother and set dates for each transferring employee, that much I do know.

How many trades going to DTP?

[greasemonkeysteve]

I am not exactly sure, but it was incorrect due to the HR at some plants incorrectly reporting their Protected status employees or something like that, but rather than hold the whole list up, they decided to post the rest. It should be out very soon though.

I'm guessing Michigan Truck was the one that didn't report their GEN. Just found out this morning there is a new posting for Industrial Truck for 5 at DTP and 2 at Wayne ISA. Michigan Truck is now included with the sign up availability along with Wixom and Maumee. Anyone know how many mechanics are in GEN at Michigan Truck? BTW, we were told that the previous posting we all signed up for was cancelled.

Edited May 8, 2008 by greasemonkeysteve

[level]

I'm guessing Michigan Truck was the one that didn't report their GEN. Just found out this morning there is a new posting for Industrial Truck for 5 at DTP and 2 at Wayne ISA. Michigan Truck is now included with the sign up availability along with Wixom and Maumee. Anyone know how many mechanics are in GEN at Michigan Truck? BTW, we were told that the previous posting we all signed up for was cancelled.

 

No mechanics in JSP at MTP