mlhm5 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Project abandoned in 2006, prompting this from the NYT. "Had Mr. Ford produced more fuel-efficient vehicles like hybrids sooner, he not only would have found his company keeping pace with nimble foreign competitors like Toyota when oil prices spiked, but he would also have been able to illustrate the bottom-line merit of his environmental values. Instead, Ford, is again in the all-too-familiar spot of playing corporate catch-up." Flash forward to today. Hybrids sold in the U.S. (March 2008) - 38,214 - of which over 20K were the Toyota Prius Edited April 15, 2008 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Yet another stupid thread from our resident troll. Ford has more than kept up with Toyota in small cars lately. Corolla down. Way down. Focus up. Way up. What about all of the other "nimble foreign competition"? Where are Nissan's hybrid sales? What about Mitsubishi? Suzuki? Subaru? And all of those European hybrids from Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes must be making Ford look bad. Oh wait. Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Toyota sales are down -17.8% in Europe, they only sell mainly small cars to us in the UK. Toyota look like they will be soon overtaken in sales in Europe by high quality low volume producers like BMW and Mercedes that make only big cars. I guess we don't buy cheap and nasty Toyota trash over this side of the pond. Edited April 15, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 This is probably why Clay Ford Jr. keeps his mouth shut now. I do hope though that Ford can finally break the battery constraint and make more hybrids as Fusion/Mariner join Escape/Mariner as hybrid models. At the rate Ford is going, Ford may produce 30,000 hybrids in total/year by 2010. They need to pick up the pace and be way over 50,000/year by then. I would hope they could be up to 100,000 by 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hybrids won't be taking over, period. Everyone here keeps hanging their hat on Corolla sales this quarter, but it's an ancient model with the Scion (youth sales), and Yaris under it now. Yaris is up something like 80 percent. Everyone's small cars are selling. The Prius is still just a status symbol vehicle for a population segment, just as Hummers are/were for another. The take-away from those totals is still that Honda basically gave up on it, and that anything with a Camry badge sells in droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) Ford will have 4 or 5 hybrid models with a blue oval on the road by 2011. And that does not count Mercury, Mazda or Lincoln (or Volvo) Fusion Escape Edge Flex (Taurus) Finally - anyone remember this? : http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/25/ford-ex...he-near-future/ a dedicated PHEV nameplate from Ford .... we shall see. Igor Edited April 15, 2008 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Project abandoned in 2006, prompting this from the NYT. "Had Mr. Ford produced more fuel-efficient vehicles like hybrids sooner, he not only would have found his company keeping pace with nimble foreign competitors like Toyota when oil prices spiked, but he would also have been able to illustrate the bottom-line merit of his environmental values. Instead, Ford, is again in the all-too-familiar spot of playing corporate catch-up." Flash forward to today. Hybrids sold in the U.S. (March 2008) - 38,214 - of which over 20K were the Toyota Prius The whole of Ford's troubles are government policy and investor based. No one and I mean no one wants to buy the junk you mentioned. It is all driven by the cost of fuel. If not for psycho eviro nutz pushing for government legislation, and people being raped by the cost of fuel they would be buying what they want. Rather than what they are being forced into. Who on earth wants to drive a sub-compact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hybrids won't be taking over, period. Everyone here keeps hanging their hat on Corolla sales this quarter, but it's an ancient model According to Toyota, the Corolla is all-new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 According to Toyota, the Corolla is all-new. Yeah, and they also said a "Triple-Tech" frame is superior to a totally boxed frame too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 "Was Bill Ford was right?" You tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) "Was Bill Ford was right?" You tell me. Was you try'n to say. Was he was, or is he is? Did you know imports rock? If you drive one then you don't have to feel guilty when the temperature rises, and with the proper shoehorn they are easy to get in and out of one! Edited April 15, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) "Carmakers already concerned about tough new 35mpg fuel economy standards set to roll in by 2020 now have something else to worry about with the announcement today by an EPA official that passenger cars and light trucks may have to average 75mpg by 2030. The latest statement follows a previous announcement from the scientific community that world oil usage could rise to 120 million barrels a day by the same 2030 cutoff date - up from 85 million barrels at current levels." 1000 cars hitting the road everyday in just Bejing and the emblem of middle class status in both China and India is a car, so I don't doubt the increasing oil demand numbers and it is really hard to see that a 35 mpg average, despite the EPA rules, will be a reality in 2020 without a substantial number of hybrids. Edited April 15, 2008 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 "Was Bill Ford was right?" You tell me. Then there was Was (Not Was) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was_(Not_Was) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) "Carmakers already concerned about tough new 35mpg fuel economy standards set to roll in by 2020 now have something else to worry about with the announcement today by an EPA official that passenger cars and light trucks may have to average 75mpg by 2030. The latest statement follows a previous announcement from the scientific community that world oil usage could rise to 120 million barrels a day by the same 2030 cutoff date - up from 85 million barrels at current levels." 1000 cars hitting the road everyday in just Bejing and the emblem of middle class status in both China and India is a car, so I don't doubt the increasing oil demand numbers and it is really hard to see that a 35 mpg average, despite the EPA rules, will be a reality in 2020 without a substantial number of hybrids. Thank you for proving my point! Government legislation, and fuel extortion. You can't fool the public the economy is failing over the price of fuel, and everyone is talking about it! Oh Yeah and who is blocking the drilling for oil stateside? Would you care to tackle proving that for me also. Edited April 15, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Then there was Was (Not Was) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was_(Not_Was) Then there's this guy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) This VIDEO LINK is the equivalent of us arguing with mlhm5! He is the blind Toyota lover, and I won't hear a thing he's saying till he starts making sense! Edited April 15, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Little value in selling hybrids at a loss. All of Toyota hybrid cars steal sale away from high profit vehicles. Ford picked the Escape Hybrid because it made the most economical sense. Now that they have developed it enough that they can make a profit, they will be expanding it to other products. For the money, EcoBoost is a better way to go. The future will be all hybrids, but only after someone develops a very cheap battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 The future will be all hybrids, but only after someone develops a very cheap battery. I doubt it. If it ever happens, it'll be a long way off. If super-cheap and efficient batteries become available, chances are we'd see a rapid switch to all-electric vehicles and skip the entire mass hybrid thing altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I doubt it. If it ever happens, it'll be a long way off. If super-cheap and efficient batteries become available, chances are we'd see a rapid switch to all-electric vehicles and skip the entire mass hybrid thing altogether. If super-cheap batteries do become available some day, an all-electric vehicle will still have limited range. Best bet would be something like a cheap Volt. An electric vehicle with a Briggs and Stratton generator to keep the batteries charged up. This type of vehicle could make it really cheap way to have All wheel drive. FWD and RWD would not matter. Electric motors at all 4 wheels, gas generator can be put anywhere you want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 If super-cheap batteries do become available some day, an all-electric vehicle will still have limited range. Best bet would be something like a cheap Volt. An electric vehicle with a Briggs and Stratton generator to keep the batteries charged up. This type of vehicle could make it really cheap way to have All wheel drive. FWD and RWD would not matter. Electric motors at all 4 wheels, gas generator can be put anywhere you want it. How about a pneumatic/electric Hybrid, instead of a gas/electric hybrid? Air car LINK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 So Ford has labored to implement both Ecoboost and a new Hybrid powerplant across almost its entire fleet of vehicles and somehow that counts for nothing because Toyota sells more hybrids. Ford will simultaneously become the environmental and horsepower leader in the same breath, I can't tell you how delighted I am to see Toyota making due with its Prius while Ford effects change to far more potential consumers. Lets see Toyota now catch Ford since quality is clearly no longer a Toyota exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 So Ford has labored to implement both Ecoboost and a new Hybrid powerplant across almost its entire fleet of vehicles and somehow that counts for nothing because Toyota sells more hybrids. Ford will simultaneously become the environmental and horsepower leader in the same breath, I can't tell you how delighted I am to see Toyota making due with its Prius while Ford effects change to far more potential consumers. Lets see Toyota now catch Ford since quality is clearly no longer a Toyota exclusive. We're not done yet though, we are tied with them in quality. We have to pass them, and maintain the lead to become the preferred brand! No time for complacency now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Then there's this guy: "Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear. Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair. Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy. Was he?" My teacher in 2nd grade butchered the joke by over-pronouncing the last line. Still burns me to this day. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 Ford has a lot of options on the table, but limited resources to further develop them, plus technology is moving so fast that when they place their bets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Ford has a lot of options on the table, but limited resources to further develop them, plus technology is moving so fast that when they place their bets... Limited resources? Hardly. What's limited is your intelligence. But you're right, technology is moving so fast—how is Toyota ever going to keep up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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