silvrsvt Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/16/wh...d-mariners-thi/ The obvious question is why. Although battery supply constraints would seem to be one likely answer, that is apparently not an issue. Ford claims they can get as many batteries as they need. It turns out that it's a business decision. With the plant running at capacity, in order for Ford to build more hybrids, they would have to cut production of the other models. Although no one from Ford was willing to openly admit it, the continued references to building as many Escapes as they can while limiting hybrid production at an arbitrary number indicates that it comes down to profit. Ford can clearly make a larger profit margin on the non-hybrid models and has made the calculation that 25,000 is enough to indicate they are serious while still maximizing cash flow wherever they can. Given Ford's precarious financial situation of late, you sure can't blame them although many who might want a high-mileage crossover might be disappointed. Later this year, Ford will be doubling their total hybrid production when they add the new Fusion and Milan hybrids. Those will apparently use an upgraded, next-generation version of Ford's hybrid system. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 This might be a PR decision the spin this as a bussiness decision - as to not admit that they have a Toyota owned supplier that restricts their flow of batteries. However - there is no doubt that the V6 Limitedis more profitable to Ford than Hybrid or Hybrid limited. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 This might be a PR decision the spin this as a bussiness decision - as to not admit that they have a Toyota owned supplier that restricts their flow of batteries. Well i think that the real turth will come out with the Hybird CD3s and if they sell more then 25K of them a year, but it all depends on other factors like demand and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 ...Ummm...Let me get this right...Ford is trying to make a profit? How dare them! Although it should include a small disclaimer that it is from AOL's Autoblog and worst of all, Autoblog Green. They have the worst writers and no editors to speak of. Not to mention the stupidest people on earth comments on there. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/16/wh...d-mariners-thi/ :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I still say it just comes down to demand. Your average Escape hybrid is around 30 grand and a your average Prius is 23 grand. If you could get a hybrid Escape for 23 grand they'd be selling the snot out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Money is one issue, but the bigger issue is the fact that the Prius is a distinctive model that has caught on in public perception as being the green car. No other hybrids are selling as well. It's like wearing a designer outfit...cost is taken into consideration, but perception is far more important. I still say it just comes down to demand. Your average Escape hybrid is around 30 grand and a your average Prius is 23 grand. If you could get a hybrid Escape for 23 grand they'd be selling the snot out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Money is one issue, but the bigger issue is the fact that the Prius is a distinctive model that has caught on in public perception as being the green car. No other hybrids are selling as well. It's like wearing a designer outfit...cost is taken into consideration, but perception is far more important. And like most so-called "designer outfits", the Prius is ugly as shit. I just don't get some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Money is one issue, but the bigger issue is the fact that the Prius is a distinctive model that has caught on in public perception as being the green car. No other hybrids are selling as well. It's like wearing a designer outfit...cost is taken into consideration, but perception is far more important. I just don't believe it's all about perception. I know people that have purchased hybrids and in every instance it's about nothing more than saving money on that gas bill. They figured they were going to pay an average of 20 to 25 grand for a car anyway, why not get one that gets good mileage too? That's it, cut and dry. The point for them from the very start was to save money. Let's face it, there's nothing particularly sexy or appealing about a Prius aside from the fact that it carrys just a many people as any other midsize sedan, for the same price or less and it gets 45 mpg around town. None of the Prius owners I know are what you would call environmentalists, nor are they trying to make a "green" statement. It was simply the fact that the Prius is the lowest cost hybrid on the market and it gets good mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I suppose this could say something about the people I associate with, but I can't claim to know a SINGLE Prius owner personally. Whew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danup Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I live in a college town and Prii are all over the place. They're nice, practical cars, and I'm a tech fan so I can get behind early adoption, but the Prius-vibe is just insufferable. I'd much rather drive a Camry or Escape hybrid or some other car that didn't shout "I'm the kind of person who scowls at people in V6 cars" from the heavens. Maybe I'll make my first million in time for the Volt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I live in a college town and Prii are all over the place. They're nice, practical cars, and I'm a tech fan so I can get behind early adoption, but the Prius-vibe is just insufferable. I'd much rather drive a Camry or Escape hybrid or some other car that didn't shout "I'm the kind of person who scowls at people in V6 cars" from the heavens. Maybe I'll make my first million in time for the Volt. If they scowl at people in V6 cars, I wonder what they must think when I blow past them in my Cobra? I hope it pisses them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 This might be a PR decision the spin this as a bussiness decision - as to not admit that they have a Toyota owned supplier that restricts their flow of batteries. However - there is no doubt that the V6 Limitedis more profitable to Ford than Hybrid or Hybrid limited. Igor that may be adjusted...approx $1700 price increase from 08's to 09's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 If they scowl at people in V6 cars, I wonder what they must think when I blow past them in my Cobra? I hope it pisses them off. It does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 If they scowl at people in V6 cars, I wonder what they must think when I blow past them in my Cobra? I hope it pisses them off. I get thumbs up when i pass them on the Bianchi.....LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 What I really want to know is, do they break even on them at least. If they're building them at a loss, then I'd think that they'd probably by rather tight lipped about that situation as well. Oh well, with the improved efficiency of the 09, it would seem likely that they will have even less empetus to build more hybrids as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 What I really want to know is, do they break even on them at least. If they're building them at a loss, then I'd think that they'd probably by rather tight lipped about that situation as well. Oh well, with the improved efficiency of the 09, it would seem likely that they will have even less empetus to build more hybrids as well. Last I heard, Ford said they would start to break even on their hybrid program once the Fusion/Milan hybrids go into production. They are still losing money as of now, albeit not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 (edited) If they scowl at people in V6 cars, I wonder what they must think when I blow past them in my Cobra? I hope it pisses them off. LOL, l can't think of one good thing about a expensive prius, you could buy two small diesel cars for the same price as a prius and get better MPG from them, they are an environmental nightmare where is the black hole that those millions of expensive to replace nasty toxic batteries end up in? They are flimsy lightweight shit that offer no crash protection, and they are driven by smug bastards like Al Gore that live in huge houses that have the same carbon footprint of 10 hummers, the prius offers the same sort of excitement you get from owning a fridge none what so ever, catching the bus would be so much more fun than owning a very dull boring bland prius and a lot better for the environment. Edited May 16, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Back on topic....... Hmm. Time for me a long time advocate of 'not enough batteries' to do some word eating...... Well, if the Os look like donuts, maybe they taste like donuts..... This answer, honestly, makes the most sense of any advocated thus far. If Ford loses money on every Escape they sell, likely they have a budgeted amount of "money to lose on the Escape", and--therefore--are capacity constrained by that budget. OTOH, with Ford crossing the 'breakeven' threshold this year, one would think that supply and demand will come into play, and Ford will be able to move a lot more of these things, although these models are likely to be less profitable and therefore will probably still be capacity constrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Well and the continued constraint at least allows each and every one of them to command somewhere near sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 But look at the sales #s for all other hybrids...None of them are any where near the Prius. Clearly something else is going on other than simple fuel economics. It's like asking someone if they are wearing a shirt because it is what is fashionable...of course they won't admit it. They wear it because they like it...they like it because they were told to like it. I just don't believe it's all about perception. I know people that have purchased hybrids and in every instance it's about nothing more than saving money on that gas bill. They figured they were going to pay an average of 20 to 25 grand for a car anyway, why not get one that gets good mileage too? That's it, cut and dry. The point for them from the very start was to save money. Let's face it, there's nothing particularly sexy or appealing about a Prius aside from the fact that it carrys just a many people as any other midsize sedan, for the same price or less and it gets 45 mpg around town. None of the Prius owners I know are what you would call environmentalists, nor are they trying to make a "green" statement. It was simply the fact that the Prius is the lowest cost hybrid on the market and it gets good mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 But look at the sales #s for all other hybrids...None of them are any where near the Prius. Clearly something else is going on other than simple fuel economics. It's like asking someone if they are wearing a shirt because it is what is fashionable...of course they won't admit it. They wear it because they like it...they like it because they were told to like it. smart marketing...someone mentions Hybrids the Prius is the first that jumps to mind....hopefully Farley can work his magic with ford.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hmm. Time for me a long time advocate of 'not enough batteries' to do some word eating...... Well, if the Os look like donuts, maybe they taste like donuts..... Well and the continued constraint at least allows each and every one of them to command somewhere near sticker. cough, cough cough.... I've said for a long time now that it wasn't the batteries, but it's hard to speak your mind here over the roar of the :cheerleader: Now do you want to hear why a Mary Ann Wright was sheparded out of running the green program? Or would you rather just think it's still all due to not making enough money on what they sell? MARY ANN WRIGHT: Visit Ford Motor Co.'s website About Alternative Energy at LTU Nominate a futureLeader & Innovator Archive of RecentLeaders and Innovators Image gallery of 2007 Leaders & Innovators Award Reception Director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrid and fuel cell vehicle programs, Ford Motor Co. Wright has concentrated on product development during her 17-year Ford career, including serving as the lead engineer for the launch of the 2000 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable redesign and the Lincoln LS. She started working on hybrid and alt-fuel vehicles about two years ago, and was chief engineer on the Ford Escape Hybrid. Today, she's working on Ford's efforts toward sustainable mobility solutions such as hybrids, H2-powered fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen internal combustion engine technologies. She's also a tireless advocate for animals, including leading the effort to build a new Dearborn Animal Shelter that will be modeled after the LEED-certified Ford Rouge Plant. And Michael.... Ford sells the vehicles to the dealers, they make no more money if it's sold at sticker or at A plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Yep...Marketing makes perception real. smart marketing...someone mentions Hybrids the Prius is the first that jumps to mind....hopefully Farley can work his magic with ford.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 (edited) Yep...Marketing makes perception real. and to date , in that regard Toyota has NO peer....witness people STILL thinking the Prius gets 55 mpg's.... Edited May 16, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 And Michael.... Ford sells the vehicles to the dealers, they make no more money if it's sold at sticker or at A plan. The dealer who sells the car gets a check from Ford...if not why would they even take A plan if they didn't make any money off it? Plus not to mention dealerships can make money from financing and other schemes to bring in more money if they don't make X on a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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