dunkin Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 fords now says they need a plant to build the small and mid size cars in north america. wixom stopped production may 31 07. granholm and the city of wixom offered fords a total of a 138 million dollars to keep the plant open. fords said they did not need another car plant. mark fields made the call. as hindsight is always 20/20 i wonder how this rates as one of the all time blunders of fords. if they would have used the money to revamp the plant starting in june of 07 they would be ready to roll in 09. no wonder my stock has tanked!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 fords now says they need a plant to build the small and mid size cars in north america. wixom stopped production may 31 07. granholm and the city of wixom offered fords a total of a 138 million dollars to keep the plant open. fords said they did not need another car plant. mark fields made the call. as hindsight is always 20/20 i wonder how this rates as one of the all time blunders of fords. if they would have used the money to revamp the plant starting in june of 07 they would be ready to roll in 09. no wonder my stock has tanked!!!!!!!!! Maybe Mark was trying to be nice and not just come out and say that "fords" doesn't want a plant in Wixom anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Maybe Mark was trying to be nice and not just come out and say that "fords" doesn't want a plant in Wixom anymore. paris, you are truly an asshole. Whether implied or innuendo...no one needs you to clear the air...you are only good at muddying the water. Dunkin, I hear you brother, but we aren't going to build a "B" car in the USA yet. The Fiesta would not save Wixom or any other US plant. Our government does not support our industry, and we freely import products that we cannot export without duties and tarriffs. That is the problem more-so than any other. For example, the CAW enjoys the protection of their Government - stating that you aren't selling in Canada if you don't make product in Canada. That along with their National Healthcare have helped the CAW limp through what we are crawling through. Other 3rd world countries don't pay duties like we do either. Whether we want to accept it or not, Ford is a "global" company....and that means they are supplying cars to the world, not just the USA. Much of the market and potential for growth is outside the US now....just another reason that gas is so high. It is hard enough to fight "to make what we need" in the US.....but fighting for cars to mainly export....that is a horse of a different color my friend....and a fight that our government turns its back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyfromSTAP Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 "For example, the CAW enjoys the protection of their Government - stating that you aren't selling in Canada if you don't make product in Canada." I think you need to check your facts...this isn't the case at all anymore.Obviously what the CAW and the Canadian effect isn't your strong suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Maybe Mark was trying to be nice and not just come out and say that "fords" doesn't want a plant in Wixom anymore. It's so sad that an American like you even exists. You rarely, if ever, say anything positive; you're an all smart-ass, no-facts, shit stirrer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 fords now says they need a plant to build the small and mid size cars in north america. wixom stopped production may 31 07. granholm and the city of wixom offered fords a total of a 138 million dollars to keep the plant open. fords said they did not need another car plant. mark fields made the call. as hindsight is always 20/20 i wonder how this rates as one of the all time blunders of fords. if they would have used the money to revamp the plant starting in june of 07 they would be ready to roll in 09. no wonder my stock has tanked!!!!!!!!! dunk, I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect the Fiesta is going to Hermosillo for one reason: cost. The Fiesta is a "B" car, and those are priced very low---around $10K-$12K. And we can't compete with $1.50/hr labor; nor do I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Our government does not support our industry, and we freely import products that we cannot export without duties and tarriffs. That is the problem more-so than any other. For example, the CAW enjoys the protection of their Government - stating that you aren't selling in Canada if you don't make product in Canada. That along with their National Healthcare have helped the CAW limp through what we are crawling through. Other 3rd world countries don't pay duties like we do either. What you are talking about is the Auto Pact. That was struck down in 2001 because the WTO claimed it illegal. Which means your facts are out of date by 7 years. http://canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/econo..._auto_pact.html In the past 3 years, the US-Canadian exchange rate has dropped over 30% (for a myriad of reasons), meaning that since then it has become 30% more expensive to do business in Canada. Your UAW hardships are no worse nor better than the ones the CAW are going through; with the exception that the CAW philosophy that concessions don't buy jobs was lost on the UAW and the UAW sold the farm and are still bleeding jobs. The CAW is bleeding them as well -- the only difference is that in the CAW is trying to minimize the division between old, new and retired workers by refusing true two-teir wages. The UAW contract did nothing to guarantee future jobs; they only guaranteed future problems for UAW mambers and their families. You have more to fear from your southern right-to-work state brethren than you do from Canadian workers, because they're the ones that sell out at bargain-bin labour costs, the state offers the sun and moon for investment and no union to protect the worker from corporate exploitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 It's so sad that an American like you even exists. You rarely, if ever, say anything positive; you're an all smart-ass, no-facts, shit stirrer. Go back and read the post again Pumpmaster. He; while using some less than perfect english, slammed Mark Fields. Mark Fields couldn't have kept Wixom open if he wanted to! Im really not trying to be a smart ass or a shit stirrer. I think the truth needs to be told occasionally. Sometimes it's not pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 What you are talking about is the Auto Pact. That was struck down in 2001 because the WTO claimed it illegal. Which means your facts are out of date by 7 years. http://canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/econo..._auto_pact.html In the past 3 years, the US-Canadian exchange rate has dropped over 30% (for a myriad of reasons), meaning that since then it has become 30% more expensive to do business in Canada. Your UAW hardships are no worse nor better than the ones the CAW are going through; with the exception that the CAW philosophy that concessions don't buy jobs was lost on the UAW and the UAW sold the farm and are still bleeding jobs. The CAW is bleeding them as well -- the only difference is that in the CAW is trying to minimize the division between old, new and retired workers by refusing true two-teir wages. The UAW contract did nothing to guarantee future jobs; they only guaranteed future problems for UAW mambers and their families. You have more to fear from your southern right-to-work state brethren than you do from Canadian workers, because they're the ones that sell out at bargain-bin labour costs, the state offers the sun and moon for investment and no union to protect the worker from corporate exploitation. Yeah.... so explain national health care, and should any US vehicle get exported into Mexico, it get's hit with a 25% tariff.... Which explains why the fiestiva is being made in Mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Yeah.... so explain national health care... National health care is a direct function of taxes. That's why the average Canadian autoworker pays 30-45% of their annual wage to income tax. That's 10-15% more than the average American. It's all about choice. Your fellow Americans don't want to pay 10-15% more tax. How is that Canada's fault? It's not like the government subsidizes health care to make an unfair trade advantage. The system is paid by the Canadian citizen specifically for that service. US vehicles don't get hit with a tarrif to get shipped to Mexico. That contravenes NAFTA. Where did you get that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 dunk, I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect the Fiesta is going to Hermosillo for one reason: cost. The Fiesta is a "B" car, and those are priced very low---around $10K-$12K. And we can't compete with $1.50/hr labor; nor do I want to. Fiesta is going to Cuautitlan. Hermosillo stays Fusion/Milan/MkZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Yeah.... so explain national health care, and should any US vehicle get exported into Mexico, it get's hit with a 25% tariff.... Which explains why the fiestiva is being made in Mexico That and Mexico has REAL free trade with other countries that the US doesn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Fiesta is going to Cuautitlan. Hermosillo stays Fusion/Milan/MkZ. I stand corrected. Wings (and, soon, Celtics) rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasyfrank Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Fiesta is going to Cuautitlan. Hermosillo stays Fusion/Milan/MkZ. I thought Ford was closing Cuautitlan.......I guess not. I know I read somewhere Ford was closing a Mexican plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I thought Ford was closing Cuautitlan.......I guess not. I know I read somewhere Ford was closing a Mexican plant. LINK Ford plans to retool its Cuautitlan Assembly Plant from large-truck to small-car production as it moves to shift its factories from trucks toward more fuel-efficient vehicles, the company said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) National health care is a direct function of taxes. That's why the average Canadian autoworker pays 30-45% of their annual wage to income tax. That's 10-15% more than the average American. It's all about choice. Your fellow Americans don't want to pay 10-15% more tax. How is that Canada's fault? It's not like the government subsidizes health care to make an unfair trade advantage. The system is paid by the Canadian citizen specifically for that service. US vehicles don't get hit with a tarrif to get shipped to Mexico. That contravenes NAFTA. Where did you get that from? 25% tariff look it up... US taxes and NO National Health Care Income 28% or 31% I don't remember depends on earnings Medicare 7% State Tax 3.5 % City depending where u live ADD IN PROPERTY AND SALES TAX TOO!! Rounds out to about 36% of your income, without property and sales tax, and no National Health Care We need a a single payer system like Congress has. Take the profit away from the Insurance companies and Every US citizen would have public funded, single payer system, which would strengthen American Manufacturing! It's great my taxes go to health and drug research, so drug companies and health care companies can sell it back to me at a profit. You don't see drugs included in NAFTA even if they are manufactured off shore and imported to the US, for US consumption Capitalism at it's best.... Take Britain, and Cuba's health care system, blend it, and bring to the US, with a single payer system. ADD HEALTH CARE TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS! Under a single payer system, just taking the bureaucracy out of health care would save billions OH CANADA.... Don't get me wrong I love my Canadian Brothers and Sisters but Canada does have a little better deal going on NAFTA but nothing touches the deal Mexico and South America got look it up.... I think the US was looking for a deal on oil...we see how that worked out, Good Ol Bush should put him on trial BUSH LIED AND AMERICANS DIED and their still dying, anybody who thinks it was about weapons..... enough said.... and up through the ground came a bubbling crude Edited June 17, 2008 by nvsked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 25% tariff look it up... US taxes and NO National Health Care Income 28% or 31% I don't remember depends on earnings Rounds out to about 36% of your income, without property and sales tax, and no National Health Care Gee, last several yrs., with deductions and credits, my realized income tax is in the 10-11% range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) 25% tariff look it up... US taxes and NO National Health Care Income 28% or 31% I don't remember depends on earnings Medicare 7% State Tax 3.5 % City depending where u live ADD IN PROPERTY AND SALES TAX TOO!! Please, you don't understand how good you have it. 42% income tax >> $52,000 after deductions $4300 property tax on a $320,000 (assessed) house $1,989.90 Canada Pension Plan contribution $720.00 Unemployment Insurance. 14% sales tax (provincial sales tax (PST) and Goods and Services tax (GST)) so add about another $7G That adds up to about $66,000 last year. I'll gladly trade you. I know I can buy a hell of a health insurance plan out of pocket with the surplus. PS> Think gas is expensive at $4 a gallon? Right now we pay $1.34 a litre, works out to $5.09 a gallon, and the dollar is at par! Edited June 17, 2008 by ViperPilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulewright Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Please, you don't understand how good you have it. 42% income tax >> $52,000 after deductions $4300 property tax on a $320,000 (assessed) house $1,989.90 Canada Pension Plan contribution $720.00 Unemployment Insurance. 14% sales tax (provincial sales tax (PST) and Goods and Services tax (GST)) so add about another $7G That adds up to about $66,000 last year. I'll gladly trade you. I know I can buy a hell of a health insurance plan out of pocket with the surplus. PS> Think gas is expensive at $4 a gallon? Right now we pay $1.34 a litre, works out to $5.09 a gallon, and the dollar is at par! Most of the western world is moving away from socialism as fast as they can because it doesn't work yet for some reason the liberals are selling the country on the notion that we need to become socialist... baffles me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Please, you don't understand how good you have it. 42% income tax >> $52,000 after deductions $4300 property tax on a $320,000 (assessed) house $1,989.90 Canada Pension Plan contribution $720.00 Unemployment Insurance. 14% sales tax (provincial sales tax (PST) and Goods and Services tax (GST)) so add about another $7G That adds up to about $66,000 last year. I'll gladly trade you. I know I can buy a hell of a health insurance plan out of pocket with the surplus. PS> Think gas is expensive at $4 a gallon? Right now we pay $1.34 a litre, works out to $5.09 a gallon, and the dollar is at par! I hear you ... Taxation... let the REVOLUTION BEGIN! Although: Social Security is supposed to be out of money by 2020 depending on who u listen too, so all the money paid in to date would be lost. Typically $3500.00 + medicare a year plus no medical coverage until age 67 Property tax on $180,000.00 home $4700.00 a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 US vehicles don't get hit with a tarrif to get shipped to Mexico. That contravenes NAFTA. Where did you get that from? http://wehner.tamu.edu/mgmt.www/NAFTA/spring99/itam_auto.htm NAFTA has thousands of pages, most of the Senators and Congress who voted for it didn't understand it. But here is a few examples.... * The Big Three had an advantageous negotiating position, because they have production operations in the three North American countries; also, they have a dominant position in the North American market. VW, Nissan and Toyota have do not have operations in the three countries. In the case of their Mexican operations, VW and Nissan were against high rules of origin, although they and the Big Three were in favor of the industry liberalization * The United Auto Workers and the Canadian Auto Workers actively opposed NAFTA, because they saw the latter as a means to make Mexico a production and export platform. The Mexican unions, particularly the Confederacion de Trabajadores de Mexico (CTM), the central union, were in favor of NAFTA and the liberalization of the Mexican industry if this meant the creation of more and better paid jobs. * U.S. and Canadian auto parts producers were in favor of a 75 % rule of origin * Mexican auto parts also favored a high rule of origin, but wanted more protection against foreign producers in the Mexican market Besides agreeing to high rules of origin, the Mexican government agreed to maintain, until 2004, the requirement of having production operations in Mexico in order to sell there and the ban to sell used cars until 2018. You can find a lot more on NAFTA if you care to look... Most tariffs occur during exportation, Mexican made vehicles can be shipped most places without restriction. US & Canadian produced vehicles imported to Mexico for exportation to other countries get hit with tariffs AS I UNDERSTAND IT. SO IN MY OPINION MEXICO HAS A MORE FAVORABLE TRADING ALLIANCE, WHICH PUTS THE US AND CANADA AT A DISADVANTAGE... PLUS THEY HAVE CONTENT LAWS Again there are thousands of pages to NAFTA and I'm NO EXPERT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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