Obama

[napfirst]

Okay Nap, taking into consideration the fact that the Dems' control of Congress from January '07 to date has been tenuous at best, based on the margin in the Senate, please tell us what the Dems, Pelosi and Reid passed as legislation to cause the present economic disaster. As far as I am aware, the present Congress hasn't passed much other than the minimum wage bill and the banking bailout which were largely bi-partisan.

 

What specific Bush/Republican measures were defeated since the Dems took over?

 

Do you really believe that the deficit spending on Iraq combined with Bush's tax policy during the 6 years the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress had no effect?

 

There is really no reason for anyone to be making excuses for Obama at this point. He's Not the President yet. He can't make the Congress or W do anything.

Right, they took control by winning the '06 elections running on promises to fix the economy, .......pelosi was going to take us to energy independence....instead gas prices set a record.....and since you brought up the Iraq war.....why didn't they vote down funding?......you and I both know...the '08 elections....but now they'll control everything, so they (you) will have no one to blame but them!....my point in all of this is I see a pattern on here and in the media of excuses being made even before he takes office.......the economy is no much worse than it was 2 weeks ago and in everyone of his ads he was touting tax cuts for 95% of Americans.....how about the fact that they let the ban on off-shore drilling expire....just in time for the election and now the dems are saying they will reimpose it....say anything or do anything to get elected.....

[AAISkinsFan]

Right, they took control by winning the '06 elections running on promises to fix the economy, .......pelosi was going to take us to energy independence....instead gas prices set a record.....and since you brought up the Iraq war.....why didn't they vote down funding?......you and I both know...the '08 elections....but now they'll control everything, so they (you) will have no one to blame but them!....my point in all of this is I see a pattern on here and in the media of excuses being made even before he takes office.......the economy is no much worse than it was 2 weeks ago and in everyone of his ads he was touting tax cuts for 95% of Americans.....how about the fact that they let the ban on off-shore drilling expire....just in time for the election and now the dems are saying they will reimpose it....say anything or do anything to get elected.....

 

You're a mess man...

 

Why even read the rest of your tirade when the first sentence is flawed. Funny how soon you can forget recent history, huh nap?

 

Get a grip.

 

Democrats Win Control of House

 

Early Wednesday, the Democrats had enough seats in the House to push the Republicans out of the majority -- a development many experts attributed to doubts about President Bush and the U.S. occupation in Iraq.

 

Source

 

In your sig don't you mean the worst President since Jimmy Carter? Good god...

Edited November 17, 2008 by AAISkinsFan

[Mark B. Morrow]

Right, they took control by winning the '06 elections running on promises to fix the economy, .......pelosi was going to take us to energy independence....instead gas prices set a record.....and since you brought up the Iraq war.....why didn't they vote down funding?......you and I both know...the '08 elections....but now they'll control everything, so they (you) will have no one to blame but them!....my point in all of this is I see a pattern on here and in the media of excuses being made even before he takes office.......the economy is no much worse than it was 2 weeks ago and in everyone of his ads he was touting tax cuts for 95% of Americans.....how about the fact that they let the ban on off-shore drilling expire....just in time for the election and now the dems are saying they will reimpose it....say anything or do anything to get elected.....

 

 

Ok so the fact that they didn't really have control from '07 to today doesn't count? How many spending bills did Bush veto in his first term? None.

 

Cutting out funding for Iraq would not have passed even on a party line vote and it certainly would not have survived a veto. It would have made for some Republican ads on patriotism. The war needs to be ended responsibly as Obama campaigned.

 

Again, the new Democratic majority won't take over until January '09. I agree that the Dems will be responsible for the laws they pass and the policies they enact. As the Republicans should be held responsible for the laws and policies of the first 6 years of the Bush administration.

 

If the Dems screw it up I'll be among the first to criticize them. I just think you are jumping the gun here. No one knows what the facts will be on Jan 20, 2009. Until that date, Bush is the President.

 

The off-shore drilling isn't going to save our economy. It will be 7-10 years before any of that oil would hit the market. We don't have the refining capacity to do anything with additional oil anyway.

 

Obama was correct in his 60 Minutes interview last night that the drop in oil prices (due to the global economic meltdown)makes it more important and more difficult politically to move forward on alternative energy. The history of the last 36 years is filled with oil spikes and calls to fix the problem followed by dips to cheap gas when plans to wean us off oil were abandoned.

 

Do I know if the middle class tax cuts will happen in 2009? No I don't. I hope they will be passed because the middle class drives the economy. When the middle does well everyone does well. The rich are always lifted by a rise in the economy as a whole. The poor have more opportunity when the middle isn't on the skids.

 

All in all I prefer a President who can adapt to changes in the situation over one who refuses to deal with new realities and insists on keeping to a plan that was based on outdated information. McCain offered more of the same Bush/Cheney/Gramm prescription that was killing tha patient.

 

Obama will try new things. Some may not work and he will try other ideas.

 

We will see what happens. If he succeeds he will be a lock for re-election in 2012. If he fails, especially with a Democratic congress, he is in for a rough time.. Personally I hope he is a huge success. It will be much better for the country as a whole if the economy improves.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[suv_guy_19]

Actually, no. Read up on Hitler's rise to power. The Nazi party was clearly a socialist movement.

 

 

That may be, but it turned into something with very Conservative values in some ways. It may be right to say that it was a combination of two things taken to the extreme with very bad results.

[Hemiman]

That may be, but it turned into something with very Conservative values in some ways. It may be right to say that it was a combination of two things taken to the extreme with very bad results.

 

??????????? I guess I don't know what your definition of conservative values is.

[suv_guy_19]

??????????? I guess I don't know what your definition of conservative values is.

 

Fascism is a philosophy of the extreme right. Nazism combines both socialist and fascist beliefs. It can be argued that isn't true, but overall, that the was its seen. Anyway, I don't really care to argue about it as I am not completely informed on this and I don't have time to read further.

[Hemiman]

Fascism is a philosophy of the extreme right. Nazism combines both socialist and fascist beliefs. It can be argued that isn't true, but overall, that the was its seen. Anyway, I don't really care to argue about it as I am not completely informed on this and I don't have time to read further.

 

ok

[goinbroke2]

ok

 

And that's why I didn't respond to his right wing comment. I lived in germany and have met many who still admire hitler after all these years.(northern germans) A buddy and I walked into a gastoff that was closed and stepped into a meeting of a bunch of old germans. Yes swastika's were up and everything. This was in '91-92. Germans are VERY socialist in everything they do and the mindset they have. You have to experience it to understand it. I can't be bothered to go into detail about it either.

[Hemiman]

And that's why I didn't respond to his right wing comment. I lived in germany and have met many who still admire hitler after all these years.(northern germans) A buddy and I walked into a gastoff that was closed and stepped into a meeting of a bunch of old germans. Yes swastika's were up and everything. This was in '91-92. Germans are VERY socialist in everything they do and the mindset they have. You have to experience it to understand it. I can't be bothered to go into detail about it either.

 

 

Lived in Bamburg from 82-85. Was not politically astute at the time, but I did know my history. Made it a point to learn everything I could from the German poeple. There were still a lot of WWII vets alive at the time. Didn't realy see any admiration for Hitler in any of them, just an unwaivering love for Germany. Bamberg is in Bavaria so most of my contacts were in southern Germany though.

 

 

I'm toying with the idea of writing a novel based on the combat stories these German vets told me.

[goinbroke2]

I was in Baden from 68-73 as a kid with german landlords and then in Lahr from 90-93. Tank Mech so most of my exercises were up north. Hohenfelds and stuff. Around Achern I think it was when I walked into the gastoff, very strange feeling.

Germans loved us when we there dumping $$ into their economy, in 92 when they said canadians were leaving that all changed. The last year was not pleasant, extremely ignorant to us, new we were leaving so they tried to nickle and dime us to death.

I can give lots of examples on how they were so socialist, everything from their adhering to their speed limits to installing Sat tv to watch the Sky news. Gotta work though,

Later.

[Trimdingman]

Fascism is a philosophy of the extreme right. Nazism combines both socialist and fascist beliefs. It can be argued that isn't true, but overall, that the was its seen. Anyway, I don't really care to argue about it as I am not completely informed on this and I don't have time to read further.

 

 

Facsism, Naziism, and Communism are just different names for basicly the same thing. They all represent big intrusive government. They are all left wing. Socialism and Liberalism are in the same vein, only not quite so extreme. Any ideology that can't stand criticism or scrutiny, similar to a religion, is on the left. They punish or try to discredit any dissidents. They often fight each other, also, like Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. The right is small government. Extreme right is anarchy. They don't care if someone disagrees with them because they have no set rules or values. They say live and let live.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Trimdingman

[suv_guy_19]

I forgot. Right wing policy is utter perfection. There is no possible way it could ever cause any negative side effects.

Edited November 19, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism,[10][11] eugenics, antisemitism, anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism,

 

Some very right wing principles, and some very left wing ones.

[xr7g428]

SUV, this one is so easy, don't let it defeat you.

 

Size of government: Conservatives = Small Liberals = Big, Socialists = Big, Fascists = Big, Communists = Biggest

 

Do you see the connection yet?

 

It doesn't make a socialist a fascist, or a communist a liberal. It does, by definition, mean that conservatives are not Socialist, Fascist, or Communist.

 

The idea that conservatives are fascists is a logical fallacy.

[suv_guy_19]

SUV, this one is so easy, don't let it defeat you.

 

Size of government: Conservatives = Small Liberals = Big, Socialists = Big, Fascists = Big, Communists = Biggest

 

Do you see the connection yet?

 

It doesn't make a socialist a fascist, or a communist a liberal. It does, by definition, mean that conservatives are not Socialist, Fascist, or Communist.

 

The idea that conservatives are fascists is a logical fallacy.

 

 

I suppose, but they do share values. Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology. It does share views with conservatives (the way things are or were is better than anything else, political opponents as enemies) but I wasn't really right to say they were conservative, you are correct. They are right wing on many points, but calling them conservatives was a mistake on my part. Nazism seems to be a strange blend of socialism and fascism taken to the extreme from what I can gather.

 

I will admit though, that liberals, socialists, and communists do share some views just as conservatives and fascists do. My point is, that bad and good ideas can come from both sides, and nothing is completely correct. It really bothers me that some automatically label right or left ideas as bad without even a consideration. Even though I do lean slightly to the left, I realize that the right does have good ideas from time to time, but they certainly aren't all good.

[napfirst]

Mark, I love this reply:

The off-shore drilling isn't going to save our economy. It will be 7-10 years before any of that oil would hit the market. We don't have the refining capacity to do anything with additional oil anyway.

 

So we shouldn't drill because it will take 7-10 years....what would you have us to do?....continue to set on our hands and in 7 years we'll still be in the same position.....I'm sure we will not develop alternative fuels in the next 10 years in an amount sufficient to supply our needs....

[Mark B. Morrow]

Mark, I love this reply:

 

 

So we shouldn't drill because it will take 7-10 years....what would you have us to do?....continue to set on our hands and in 7 years we'll still be in the same position.....I'm sure we will not develop alternative fuels in the next 10 years in an amount sufficient to supply our needs....

 

 

Nap, I'm not against off-shore drilling. I am against the simplistic nonsense that says it is a cure for our present oil probems. The primary cause of the present situation is that there has been a yo-yo effect in our energy policies over the past 30 years. Oil gets scarce and the price rises and we start talking about alternatives. Then supply increases and price goes down and we forget all about alternatives. Obama hit this right on the head.

 

The fact is that the first country that finds a workable alternative to oil for vehicular transportation will win. The advantages the Middle East countries and the Russians have over us will disappear. Drill Baby Drill won't get us there.

[94bronco]

Mark, I love this reply:

 

 

So we shouldn't drill because it will take 7-10 years....what would you have us to do?....continue to set on our hands and in 7 years we'll still be in the same position.....I'm sure we will not develop alternative fuels in the next 10 years in an amount sufficient to supply our needs....

Exactly, We need to drill now and anywhere we can

[Savetheplanet]

Exactly, We need to drill now and anywhere we can

 

Now that Democrats control the House, Senate, and the white house do you really think they will do something stupid like drilling? It's a new millennium, internal combustible engines are on their way out. Fossil fuels= death for the planet.

 

Hey 94bronco, do you still lay in bed dreaming about being one of the wolverines in the movie Red Dawn, just like you used to dream about it 20 years ago?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Now that Democrats control the House, Senate, and the white house do you really think they will do something stupid like drilling? It's a new millennium, internal combustible engines are on their way out. Fossil fuels= death for the planet.

 

Hey 94bronco, do you still lay in bed dreaming about being one of the wolverines in the movie Red Dawn, just like you used to dream about it 20 years ago?

 

US could produce Algae diesel instead and free themselves from Arab oil.

 

Its the Electric car that is dead lithium is running looooooooow there won't be much left for cars after 2015.

 

It would be great to see that God damm awful Prius disappear with it, what a dreadful environmental damaging nightmare & mess of the planet it is making, my God that car is DULL.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9RkfYCbKpt8

[Hemiman]

It's a new millennium, internal combustible engines are on their way out. Fossil fuels= death for the planet.

 

 

Meanwhile,

 

STP is still driving one of the most polluting cars on the American road!

[fmccap]

President-elect promised change, picking insiders

[Savetheplanet]

Mark, I love this reply:

 

 

So we shouldn't drill because it will take 7-10 years....what would you have us to do?....continue to set on our hands and in 7 years we'll still be in the same position.....I'm sure we will not develop alternative fuels in the next 10 years in an amount sufficient to supply our needs....

 

Things that make STP happy

 

1. Today, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), chair of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, announced that she will introduce two pieces of green legislation in January.The first is a proposal to create a grant program that would hand out $15 billion a year to support clean energy innovation.

 

2. The second bill would direct the U.S. EPA to develop a carbon cap-and-trade system by amending the Clean Air

 

3. Henry Waxman.House Democrats unceremoniously dethroned John Dingell (D-Mich.) as chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, installing Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) in his stead -- a move that will have resounding implications for climate and energy policy going forward and demonstrates growing strength among the party's more liberal wing, especially when it comes to climate policy.

 

4. Now a new business coalition has come on the scene: Business for Innovative Climate and Energy Policy (BICEP), which thus far includes Levi Strauss & Co., Nike, Starbucks, Sun Microsystems, and The Timberland Company. They are calling for tough climate legislation.

 

5. Shell Oil's plans to drill in Alaska's Beaufort Sea have been shot down by a federal appeals court.

 

6. Pirates hijacked the 1,000-foot-long Sirius Star, a massive oil tanker moored off the central coast of Somalia.

 

7.The DOW fell 870 points in the last 2 days. (yay)

 

8.The Nekkei lost 6.9% yesterday.

 

9.The Dems gained another seat in the Senate and another corrupt, convicted Felon republican is out.

 

10.Secretary of state Hillary Clinton will pull America out of another unjust war next year.

[Versa-Tech]

Things that make STP happy

 

6. Pirates hijacked the 1,000-foot-long Sirius Star, a massive oil tanker moored off the central coast of Somalia.

 

7.The DOW fell 870 points in the last 2 days. (yay)

WTF is wrong with you? You're happy about Somalian pirates hijacking a peaceful vessel and the impending collapse of the stock market. Explain yourself.

[fmccap]

WTF is wrong with you? You're happy about Somalian pirates hijacking a peaceful vessel and the impending collapse of the stock market. Explain yourself.

It's not a collapse, it's just reality because everything was overvalued.