Full -blown Transits are coming

[rmc523]

Ford should offer BOTH models, realizing that passenger hauling and some urban delivery business will be going to the Transit because it is better suited for those duties, but also realizing that heavy duty tasks (e.g. Classes 4-6) will be better suited to the E-Series, along with a limited but stable market for the E-150/250.

 

I completely agree, both should be offered.

 

Joined: 15-February 08

Member No.: 31,345

 

 

 

Well if you are wondering where this product will come from, you should first ask what product will leave to make room for the production of this fine eurovan.

My guess is that the Econoline is now a dying breed, laughable you think?

That's what I thought too!

Especially when you consider trying to put a snow plow on the front of one of these things!

HA that would be a site.

my question is how many plumbers, armored car companies, and motorhome coach builders are going to make the switch?

lets kill our third best selling vehicle and replace it with some euro-unibody-trashcompacted-vanwannabe!

NOW THAT's INNOVATION, and BOLD too!

BOLDly stupid, whats next stop making th F-150?

Forum: Transit & Transit Connect Forum · Post Preview: #308972 · Replies: 90 · Views: 6,249

 

thought i said this before but maybe no one heard me

 

If you copied this statement you made, as I think you did from where I think you did, the bolded section would be your problem.....not many people visit those lower forums.

[Biker16]

How could the EU Transit benefit from being able to house a V8?

 

It won't, what could the transit lose by being CAPABLE of using a V8.

 

Has the Transit been hurt by having an FWD, RWD and AWD capability. Do you think that the width of a V8 is as harmful as the AWD, FWd and RWD capability?

 

This is how it works, you have specifications and they are met. Neither you nor I know how easy or difficult it will be to fit a V8 to the transit.

 

 

How could the US Transit benefit from a 3 ton drop in max payload?

 

this is good question, that can be solved, much like we have a figured out how to span the F150 to the F450. it can be done.

 

 

this ain't rocket science.

 

What do you think they are doing with the 2012 focus and the fiesta, we can please both markets. even if it means less commonality on both sides of the Atlantic. I would be ecstatic if we are using the same interior on our liht duty vans as we use on our heavy duty vans.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Biker16

[battyr]

I would think the Transit could get away with the 3.5 L EB in the US. But a month ago, I would have been saying a V-8.

[RichardJensen]

much like we have a figured out how to span the F150 to the F450

Yeah. By making them TWO DIFFERENT TRUCKS. There is very little commonality between the F150 & F450 outside some interior bits. The frames, suspensions, brakes, transmissions and engine choices from the F150 to the F450 are completely different. What is shared amounts to little more than possibly the seats, definitely the radio/hvac units, and some of the gauges, switchgear, and door latch mechanisms.

 

And as far as being ecstatic if the same interior is used on vans on both sides of the Atlantic, why don't you go climb around the inside of an E-250 panel truck and get back to me about just how much interior there is.

Edited July 19, 2008 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

What do you think they are doing with the 2012 focus and the fiesta

You tell me: What percentage of Focus sales consist of cab/chassis, cutaway, and chassis-only models? What percentage of Focus sales are fitted up with expensive interior storage cabinets and tool boxes?

[theoldwizard]

I would think the Transit could get away with the 3.5 L EB in the US. But a month ago, I would have been saying a V-8.

All Transits use Inline 4 (or possible 5) cylinder engines. I doubt a V6, especially with a turbo, could get squeezed in (although the V6 was an afterthought on the Aerostar)

[Biker16]

Yeah. By making them TWO DIFFERENT TRUCKS. There is very little commonality between the F150 & F450 outside some interior bits. The frames, suspensions, brakes, transmissions and engine choices from the F150 to the F450 are completely different. What is shared amounts to little more than possibly the seats, definitely the radio/hvac units, and some of the gauges, switchgear, and door latch mechanisms.

 

And as far as being ecstatic if the same interior is used on vans on both sides of the Atlantic, why don't you go climb around the inside of an E-250 panel truck and get back to me about just how much interior there is.

 

Unlike the F-series, you are using the same body for all E-series models and the same interior. BTW ford is the only maker of 2 different Full sized P/U models. GM seems to be able to keep the interiors in their LD and HD trucks the same, along with the doors beds and seats.

 

right now We have 0 commonality. we could have IP, electrical systems, HVAC, Seats and other systems shared between our LD and HD models.

 

As to the Fitment of A V6 or V8 keep in mind the transit can fit a longitudinally mounted I5 (longer than most V8 engines) and a transverse mounted I4, (which would be wider than most V8 engines). So take that for what it is worth.

 

Again know one here knows how easy or how hard it will be to fit a V8 to the transit.

[jpd80]

Again know one here knows how easy or how hard it will be to fit a V8 to the transit.

Or whether an Ecoboost V6 will suffice.

[RichardJensen]

Unlike the F-series, you are using the same body for all E-series models and the same interior. BTW ford is the only maker of 2 different Full sized P/U models. GM seems to be able to keep the interiors in their LD and HD trucks the same, along with the doors beds and seats.

 

right now We have 0 commonality. we could have IP, electrical systems, HVAC, Seats and other systems shared between our LD and HD models.

 

As to the Fitment of A V6 or V8 keep in mind the transit can fit a longitudinally mounted I5 (longer than most V8 engines) and a transverse mounted I4, (which would be wider than most V8 engines). So take that for what it is worth.

 

Again know one here knows how easy or how hard it will be to fit a V8 to the transit.

1) Again, I ask, have you SEEN the interior of a non-Club Wagon E-Series? There's nothing there

 

2) Have you seen the two different IPs that Chevy has on its trucks?

 

3) You're suggesting that such items as the suspension & brakes be shared between the LD & HD F & E-Series?

 

4) Re: fitting a V8 into the Transit...

 

You would be required to house a 6+L twin turbo Diesel (the 4.4 is not replacing the 6+L diesel), and a heavy duty transmission. If you think the ability to house a 2.5L 5-cylinder engine is a sufficient test case........................

 

The external 'power pack' dimensions of these twin turbo diesels bears notice:

 

 

This engine is so big that the cab of the truck has to be removed to work on it.

 

I mean, stop and think about that.

 

I'll reiterate for your edification. Please take a second look at that picture of a Super Duty and then read this:

The cab of the truck has to be removed to work on the engine.

Edited July 19, 2008 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Or whether an Ecoboost V6 will suffice.

It won't. The E-350 & E-450 are available with the 500+ lb-ft Powerstroke diesel.

[jpd80]

It won't. The E-350 & E-450 are available with the 500+ lb-ft Powerstroke diesel.

That's to do with the trailer towing capacity - 9,00 to 10,000 lb.

Euro transit can match bulky load space but that but no way is it acceptable for the towing bit.

I don't see how Ford resolves Transit for doing all the E350/E450 jobs - they need both for now.

[battyr]

All Transits use Inline 4 (or possible 5) cylinder engines. I doubt a V6, especially with a turbo, could get squeezed in (although the V6 was an afterthought on the Aerostar)

 

The Transit does have a I-5. Which should be longer than a V6. The transit is a wide vehicle and already takes smaller V-6's. If the Larger V6 does not fit, then Americans won't want it. The Transit may have the capability, but without the power, it is not desirable. I would say if it does not fit, MAKE IT FIT.

[battyr]

The Transit does have a I-5. Which should be longer than a V6. The transit is a wide vehicle and already takes smaller V-6's. If the Larger V6 does not fit, then Americans won't want it. The Transit may have the capability, but without the power, it is not desirable. I would say if it does not fit, MAKE IT FIT!

 

The EB has the power, but would be no good for towing all the time. The 4.4 L Diesel would be more reliable under such a load. MAKE IT FIT too!

[RichardJensen]

That's to do with the trailer towing capacity - 9,00 to 10,000 lb.

Euro transit can match bulky load space but that but no way is it acceptable for the towing bit.

I don't see how Ford resolves Transit for doing all the E350/E450 jobs - they need both for now.

The GVWR for the E-450 is 20,000lbs. That's the weight that it can carry on its two axles and six wheels, exclusive of trailer weight.

The Transit may have the capability, but without the power, it is not desirable. I would say if it does not fit, MAKE IT FIT.

Actually, why would you have to make it fit at all? What, exactly, is wrong with the E-Series?

 

Keep in mind that Daimler was planning on building a Sprinter plant stateside, but canceled it. I don't think demand for Sprinter style vehicles is quite what some here think it is.

[jpd80]

The GVWR for the E-450 is 20,000lbs. That's the weight that it can carry on its two axles and six wheels, exclusive of trailer weight.

Thanks for clarifying that Rich,

What I was trying to imply, was that the Transit is a much lighter vehicle intended for bulky loads but

not much weight. E350 and E450 are still needed so it would be crazy to drop them.

 

The Small, Medium and Jumbo sized Transits could replace all of the smaller E-series vans and

after all, that's where the sales volume is anyway.

Edited July 19, 2008 by jpd80

[jpd80]

The GVWR for the E-450 is 20,000lbs. That's the weight that it can carry on its two axles and six wheels, exclusive of trailer weight.

 

Edit,

Gross Combination Mass for the Jumbo Transit is 6300Kg or 14,490 lb (LINK)

so that only a weeny bit short of your E450 and up to the 350's specs.

 

So it's possible a stronger version of the Jumbo Transit with bigger Turbo diesel is up to the job.

Edited July 19, 2008 by jpd80

[Biker16]

1) Again, I ask, have you SEEN the interior of a non-Club Wagon E-Series? There's nothing there

 

yes my uncle has owned for 20 years. It does have seats, HVAC and an IP.

 

 

 

2) Have you seen the two different IPs that Chevy has on its trucks?

interior for the 2009 HD LTZ

 

2008 LTZ non HD

 

they look the same to me?

 

 

3) You're suggesting that such items as the suspension & brakes be shared between the LD & HD F & E-Series?

 

when did I say that? sharing the non critical to duty parts, steering wheels and the like would be good. the mechanical bits could be whatever is needed.

 

 

4) Re: fitting a V8 into the Transit...

 

You would be required to house a 6+L twin turbo Diesel (the 4.4 is not replacing the 6+L diesel), and a heavy duty transmission. If you think the ability to house a 2.5L 5-cylinder engine is a sufficient test case........................

 

The external 'power pack' dimensions of these twin turbo diesels bears notice:

 

 

This engine is so big that the cab of the truck has to be removed to work on it.

 

I mean, stop and think about that.

 

I'll reiterate for your edification. Please take a second look at that picture of a Super Duty and then read this:

The cab of the truck has to be removed to work on the engine.

 

WOW Richard I thought they stopped offering the Power stroke in the E-series. Ford made the motor even bigger, even it can't fit in the E-series. why would you expect it to fit in the transit. I think a more manageable 4.4 V8, would meet the needs of our light duty buyers.

 

Richard how many E-550s and e-450s cutaways are sold every year, compared with the E-250and 350 vans and wagons?

 

 

the heart of this market is not the cutaways and HDs.

 

A transit with a 5.0 V8 and 6Spd would be great, and more fitting for this new Economy minded market.

 

We can keep the E-series around for the markets it is needed for, why would we not want to move to the more economical van and the van that can better meet the customers needs better.

 

 

BTW

[suv_guy_19]

BTW

 

 

That's already been brought up. Only narrow guage boxes will fit on the Transit, which isn't always good enough.

[Biker16]

That's already been brought up. Only narrow guage boxes will fit on the Transit, which isn't always good enough.

I was more impressed by the dual rear axle.

[suv_guy_19]

I was more impressed by the dual rear axle.

 

Lol, I didn't actually notice that. I have no real problem with the Transit, I'm just not sure that it can replace the E Series in all applications.

[jpd80]

Lol, I didn't actually notice that. I have no real problem with the Transit, I'm just not sure that it can replace the E Series in all applications.

Perhaps that's where Ford NA comes in with a "Super Duty" Transit?

[RichardJensen]

Edit,

Gross Combination Mass for the Jumbo Transit is 6300Kg or 14,490 lb (LINK)

so that only a weeny bit short of your E450 and up to the 350's specs.

 

So it's possible a stronger version of the Jumbo Transit with bigger Turbo diesel is up to the job.

My mistake on GCWR vs. GVWR.

 

The GVWR for the E450 is indeed 14,500lbs. (V-10/diesel)

 

However, most RV websites list a combined GCWR of about 20,000lbs for E450 based motorhomes.

 

--

 

Also, I am very curious what the Transit would be certified at under Ford NA testing protocols. It is not unreasonable to suppose that FoE has certified the Transit at ratings different from what Ford NA would certify.

[Biker16]

My mistake on GCWR vs. GVWR.

 

The GVWR for the E450 is indeed 14,500lbs. (V-10/diesel)

 

However, most RV websites list a combined GCWR of about 20,000lbs for E450 based motorhomes.

 

--

 

Also, I am very curious what the Transit would be certified at under Ford NA testing protocols. It is not unreasonable to suppose that FoE has certified the Transit at ratings different from what Ford NA would certify.

I have no doubt.

 

the Focus in europe is rated at 2700lbs for towing while the Focus here is only 1000lbs.

 

We will have to wait and see.

[RichardJensen]

Biker:

 

1) Compare these two pics:

 

Chevy is not an example to reach for when speaking of common sense parts sharing.

 

2) Sharing steering wheels, IP clusters, HVAC controls, stereo, yes, that makes sense. But not much past that. In short, very little parts sharing between the E-Series/Transit, that could not also be done between the E-Series/F-150/Super Duty.

 

3) The 6.0L PSD is still available in the E-Series. The 4.4L may replace it entirely, or it may be replaced in part by Scorpion. In either case you are looking at a very large powerpack. Ditto a 5.0L V8. Please note this pic of a F150 engine bay.

 

 

Not as bad as the Power Stroke, but still that's a mouthful, and the 5.0L block promises to be only an inch or so shorter and a couple inches narrower than this beast. Do not forget that the mod blocks are extremely tall (they carry about a 2" skirt below the crankshaft centerline and they have very long strokes for their displacement. It would require a major modification of the Transit face to accommodate any mod powerpack. Not to mention a larger transmission tunnel.

 

4) As to the 'heart of the market', for Ford it is most certainly in the cutaways, stripped chassis, and cab/chassis. Ford has a huge share of the body-builder market. Where Ford is weakest is passenger vans. I would not be at all surprised to find out that Ford is outsold by Chevy when it comes to passenger vans (true passenger vans, not shuttle buses).

 

5) I think DB was expecting a shift to the Sprinter, but it didn't happen. In a matter of years, the Transit might squeeze out the E-Series passenger vans, but the E-Series cargo vehicles have, shall we say, 'evolved' to suit this market.

Edited July 20, 2008 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

Also, I am very curious what the Transit would be certified at under Ford NA testing protocols. It is not unreasonable to suppose that FoE has certified the Transit at ratings different from what Ford NA would certify.

I think the Europeans tend to be a little more conservative and usually,the towing weights are restricted for vehicles less than 3.5 tonnes. I'm not exactly sure of the limits but 5,000 lb springs to mind.

 

I think chugging along with 15,000-20,000 lbs on board a Transit would be an

interesting trip with a smallish diesel, OK if you're not in a hurry i guess.....

Edited July 20, 2008 by jpd80