GaryG Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I both agree and disagree with this statement. Be pissed off, absolutely. Threaten, I'm not so sure about. If I remember correctly, Fmorriso signed a contract that allowed the dealership in the event of a price increase to either cancel the order or increase the price. It also allowed the buyer to cancel the order and receive his deposit back or agree to the new price. I may be completely wrong on this but I'm tired, don't remember and do not have time to go through 10 pages of the thread to find out. I NEED more coffee! In any case, if I am correct in my above assumption, the dealer has the right to pass on this price increase, per the contract wording, and then file a price increase claim and make even more money from the customer. This sucks big llama butt! It is not moral but is legal. Threatening legal action will get you nowhere. HOWEVER, contacting Ford Customer Relations and filing a complaint may prove very useful if you are persistant in a congenial mannor. As my Nana used to say...the sweet words catch the most ears. Ford gave "Price Protection" to orders prior to August 1 2008, so there was no price increase to the dealer. The dealer is clearly using the price increase for the '09 FEH/MMH for orders on 8/1/09 as an excuse to make an addition $1,030 profit. If for some reason the dealer did not get "Price Protection", that's a different story and the contract Fmorriso signed would apply as a price increase. According to the copy of the price increase notice from Ford ice-capades provided, it's clear Fmorriso's order was "PRICE PROTECTED", so there was no price increase for his order that would change his contracted price. The same trick was just pulled on a poster on Hybridcars.com this week. Ice-capades also posted that don't let the dealer show you the dealer invoice which shows the higher price and tell you he didn't get "Price Protection". That was exactly what his dealer did and he paid the dealer price increase. The poster seen ice-capades recommendation to late and now has filed a complaint with Ford. Ice-capades warns it's most likely you will not recover the money once you purchase the vehicle. If Fmorriso threatens to file a complaint with Ford and does not purchase the vehicle, you bet the dealer will not sell it till the dispute is settled between Ford and the dealer. No dealer wants to be in this position if he can legally sell the contracted vehicle to the person who placed that order at the contracted price. I don't think Ford is going to take any liability so the dealer can rip off a customer. Ford made the call by giving "Price Protection" already for customer relations. This dealer clearly doesn't give a damn about customer relations, so lets see what Ford thinks about this dealers actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 A dealer does not have to sell at invoice. He doesn't have to sell you at sticker. Any Shelby buyer can tell you that. He does, however, need to honor the price on the purchase/order agreement. Until you have something in writing of an actual PRICE, there is no price protection. Every post that I've read is that there was no "set in stone" agreed upon price in this particular case, which will muddy the waters when it comes to arguing against a price increase. I've always maintained that the dealer seems to be a crappy dealer. (This is regardless of whatever behavior on the customer's part that may have exacerbated the situation.) I never suggested that the OP should "suck it up and pay", but I disagree with the method of "buy first, sue later". Not from the perspective of being able to win (because when you finalize the purchase agreement you are signing that you agree to the price, good luck getting that overturned) and not from a "moral" perspective (I personally deplore people that are suit-happy). Personally, if it were me and the dealer refused to honor the original price I would tell him to jam the car up his ass. Of course, I'm also in a position with enough contacts, family and friends that I daresay the dealer would lose far more than $1030 in sales in the next year. If a dealer can't treat you right before the sale I can almost guarantee you that he won't treat you any better after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsGadget Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 fmorriso, do you have a piece of paper dated April whatever that says "this is the agreed-upon price"? If not, please stop this. If so, also please stop this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Did you even read his post regarding the price increase? you type "The dealer didn't raise the price - Ford did, which allowed the dealer to raise their price - legally." Of course I read it and I know exactly what happened. What I meant was the dealer did not arbitrarily decide to raise the MSRP of the 09 FEH. Ford raised the MSRP, not the dealer. That is the only scenario in the purchase agreement that allowed the dealer to change the price, and they took advantage of it. What makes you so sure that the dealer actually paid the increase to Ford? If the dealer did not submit this as a retail order then it isn't price protected, so who knows whether the dealer did or did not pay the price increase. The point is IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's irrelevant from a legal standpoint. Morally it sucks and is absolutely the wrong thing to do from a business standpoint - but it's PERFECTLY LEGAL based on the PURCHASE AGREEMENT. You're saying the dealer shouldn't have passed on the price increase and WE ALL AGREE. But some of us believe the dealer has the legal right to do it. Not that a dealer would ever LIE and said they had to pay it hoping to get an extra grand in profit when they (the dealer) actually paid the pre 08/01 cost... They probably are lying and trying to pocket an extra grand. So what? If a dealer treats you badly then you go somewhere else. It's no different than ADM on Shelby mustangs and Ford GTs. If you don't like their LEGAL business practices then you go somewhere else. Oh that's right, you typed that you would have just paid it.....instead of researching your options.... No, I said I would have either paid it or (much more likely) done as ViperPilot suggested and tell the dealer where to put it and walked out. Actually, I would have either used X plan or had a FIXED PRICE contract in the first place. I know I said I was done but I couldn't let that slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 The ETA to the dealer in the Ford vehicle tracking system says Oct-16-2008, as of October 7, 2008. For the curious, yes my price code is 915 (not 920), which means the April 21 price was supposed to be eligible for price protection, but so far, the dealer hasn't responded to my inquiry regarding whether they actually filed the necessary application with Ford to get that price protection. Not to worry. The dealer will certainly have to tell the judge, even if they don't want to tell me. Then we'll all finally know the answer and this thread will finally (mercifully you're all thinking ) end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 After checking with the Virginia Attorney General, I: Filed a complaint with Virginia Motor Vehicle Dealers Board. Filed a complaint with Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Office of Consumer Affairs. Both complaints request resolution of the dispute in either of the following manners, whichever turns out to be lower: Sell me the vehicle at the price agreed to on 2008-04-21. Sell me the vehicle at X-Plan price (which I already know will be based upon the now higher price, but might end up being the lowest amount when you include incentives). I'm sure that's going on the front burner. As far as the dealer getting one over on him???? Too bad but read what you sign next time out. You will waste you time and effort far in excess of the 1k in court. At that level, I don't see success. And if you are successful, you are putting a profit in the pocket of the dealer in any case. So it is win/win for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgATL Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ford Customer Response Center: 1-800-392-3673 between the hours of 8am and 5pm, local time, Monday through Friday. This URL shows a faster path to the CRC. (800) 521-4140 http://www.customersaskford.com/# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm sure that's going on the front burner. As far as the dealer getting one over on him???? Too bad but read what you sign next time out. You will waste you time and effort far in excess of the 1k in court. At that level, I don't see success. And if you are successful, you are putting a profit in the pocket of the dealer in any case. So it is win/win for them. Make up your own mind regarding whether the dealer is playing games with this order when you read this latest email I received this morning from the salesman. I'd be curious how many people truly believe it can take (or ever has taken) three weeks to transport a vehicle from Jessup, Maryland to Sterling, VA. If possible, check a map before you reply. Here's the email (complete with mispelt words and all) that he sent to response to my inquiry about taking delivery on Tuesday of this week of a vehicle that arrived by rail in Jessup, Maryland on Friday, October 17 at 11:42 AM: We need to do it on thurs, fri, or sat this week. I just hope we have the vehicle by then. You are assuming that it will be put on a truck promptly and that doesn't always happen. I have seen it take up to three weeks to finally arrive at the dealership once it got to Jessup.Allthough that was when dealers were a lot busier, you just never know. Personally, I think he's blowing smoke up my you-know-what about it taking up to three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Make up your own mind regarding whether the dealer is playing games with this order when you read this latest email I received this morning from the salesman. I'd be curious how many people truly believe it can take (or ever has taken) three weeks to transport a vehicle from Jessup, Maryland to Sterling, VA. If possible, check a map before you reply. Here's the email (complete with mispelt words and all) that he sent to response to my inquiry about taking delivery on Tuesday of this week of a vehicle that arrived by rail in Jessup, Maryland on Friday, October 17 at 11:42 AM: Personally, I think he's blowing smoke up my you-know-what about it taking up to three weeks. It is misspelt or misspelled if you want to be correct. You just don't get it. No one (or at least it sure appears that way) here cares one flying flip about your trials and tribulations. What little sympathy/interest you ever had appears to have been slowly eroded as you post all your conspiracy theory thoughts here. How do you know the dealer is not telling you the truth? Maybe you should create your own vehicle transportation system (and provide clear, point to point, tracking free of charge to the consumer) so you can show all the idiots in the automotive industry how to do it correctly and be the savior to the consumer world that this will suredly make you. I can't wait to hear about when you actually get your vehicle and then begin the tirade over how f'd up it is and how your dealership is providing you crappy service. I know they will be highly motivated to make you their number one priorty and most pleased customer. Edited October 20, 2008 by Green Lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prattman08 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Make up your own mind regarding whether the dealer is playing games with this order when you read this latest email I received this morning from the salesman. I'd be curious how many people truly believe it can take (or ever has taken) three weeks to transport a vehicle from Jessup, Maryland to Sterling, VA. If possible, check a map before you reply. Here's the email (complete with mispelt words and all) that he sent to response to my inquiry about taking delivery on Tuesday of this week of a vehicle that arrived by rail in Jessup, Maryland on Friday, October 17 at 11:42 AM: Personally, I think he's blowing smoke up my you-know-what about it taking up to three weeks. To put it how my dealer said, they aren't going to deliver your vehicle unless they have a full truck load to make a delivery. The shipping company isn't going to make a delivery of one vehicle, even if it is "yours". I was given an expected delivery date of Oct. 7th with the possible window of delivery a week before to usually a week after depending on shipping amounts. It didn't come until Oct. 16th and in terms of the window the dealer gave me thats 2.5 weeks. Take it for what its worth, which I'm sure for you is nothing. I must say it feels satisfying to have ordered after you, had my vehicle built after you, and yet here I am cursing around in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwaggon Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 To put it how my dealer said, they aren't going to deliver your vehicle unless they have a full truck load to make a delivery. The shipping company isn't going to make a delivery of one vehicle, even if it is "yours". I was given an expected delivery date of Oct. 7th with the possible window of delivery a week before to usually a week after depending on shipping amounts. It didn't come until Oct. 16th and in terms of the window the dealer gave me thats 2.5 weeks. Take it for what its worth, which I'm sure for you is nothing. I must say it feels satisfying to have ordered after you, had my vehicle built after you, and yet here I am cursing around in it. Dude, what are you trying to do letting a thing like the Truth get in the way of his tirades? Can't you see he doesn't actually need the facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 It is misspelt or misspelled if you want to be correct. You just don't get it. No one (or at least it sure appears that way) here cares one flying flip about your trials and tribulations. What little sympathy/interest you ever had appears to have been slowly eroded as you post all your conspiracy theory thoughts here. How do you know the dealer is not telling you the truth? Maybe you should create your own vehicle transportation system (and provide clear, point to point, tracking free of charge to the consumer) so you can show all the idiots in the automotive industry how to do it correctly and be the savior to the consumer world that this will suredly make you. I can't wait to hear about when you actually get your vehicle and then begin the tirade over how f'd up it is and how your dealership is providing you crappy service. I know they will be highly motivated to make you their number one priorty and most pleased customer. Did you notice that Norfolk Southern railroad already has a toll free number to track railcars? Once I had the value of the rail car carrying my vehicle, it was self-service all the way without needing to take a salesperson away from selling cars, his/her main function. The service was completely automated using voice recognition software. That tracking service is included in the price Norfolk Southern charges Ford and others for shipping which is in turn passed along to consumers. It's not free by any stretch of the imagination, nor should it be. FedEx, DHL, and UPS provide similar consumer-oriented tracking systems. It’s time for Ford to join the 21rst century like everyone else by providing an open, transparent ordering process, even if current franchise laws means keeping the dealer in the transaction loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 To put it how my dealer said, they aren't going to deliver your vehicle unless they have a full truck load to make a delivery. The shipping company isn't going to make a delivery of one vehicle, even if it is "yours". I was given an expected delivery date of Oct. 7th with the possible window of delivery a week before to usually a week after depending on shipping amounts. It didn't come until Oct. 16th and in terms of the window the dealer gave me thats 2.5 weeks. Take it for what its worth, which I'm sure for you is nothing. I must say it feels satisfying to have ordered after you, had my vehicle built after you, and yet here I am cursing around in it. Congratulations and I do hope you mean "cruising", not "cursing" in your new vehicle. I think you mentally were thinking of "cursing" me and got so excited your fingers got a little ahead of your thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwaggon Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 You're probably correct in that assessment, fmorriso. I find myself having the same problem with you more and more. I suspect others are as well. God save us when you actually get your hybrid and you find something wrong with it. Then we'll have to sift through another cascading mountain of crap from you about how Ford, or your dealer, or your mechanic, or your mother, is somehow out to get you. Followed by a minute by minute report of how you feel your dealer is mismanaging your repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 fmorriso, do you have a piece of paper dated April whatever that says "this is the agreed-upon price"? If not, please stop this. If so, also please stop this. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yes. Not quite. It says here is the agreed upon price unless Ford changes the MSRP. Slight difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 You're probably correct in that assessment, fmorriso. I find myself having the same problem with you more and more. I suspect others are as well. God save us when you actually get your hybrid and you find something wrong with it. Then we'll have to sift through another cascading mountain of crap from you about how Ford, or your dealer, or your mechanic, or your mother, is somehow out to get you. Followed by a minute by minute report of how you feel your dealer is mismanaging your repairs. It's real simple. Just don't visit this topic if it upsets you so much. While it's certainly your right to do so, nobody is forcing you to complain about me and future imaginary issues that don't even exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Not quite. It says here is the agreed upon price unless Ford changes the MSRP. Slight difference. Price Level=915. If I read Ice-Capades' many posts on price level codes correctly, the post-August 1 price level would be 920, which is not the case for my 4/21/2008 order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwaggon Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 It's real simple. Just don't visit this topic if it upsets you so much. While it's certainly your right to do so, nobody is forcing you to complain about me and future imaginary issues that don't even exist. I'll visit this topic if I please, but it's certainly NOT to read your posts. What I'd like is for you to stop hijacking threads and turning them into your personal b1tchfest or your personal medium for seeking attention. Despite a title like "Dude, where's my hybrid", the thread isn't for your queer up-to-the-minute updates of where your car is, and I find it extremely odd that you actually think people give a rat's ass where your car is going to be two hours from now, though not a single person has indicated so, and several people have indicated otherwise. Seriously, you seem to have some real social issues, both online (as we can all see), and in real life (as you've already painfully described all over these boards). VP's suggestion to read that book may be the best advice anyone's ever given you in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Noooo! I just read through 11 pages of this crap because I wanted to read his post when the dealer told him to go screw! You sir, are an IDIOT. Period. When everybody calls you an idiot, you're probibly an idiot. The MSRP went up, so the price went up. You threw in x-plan at the end, and accuse the dealer of altering the agreement. Unreal. I hope the dealer lets you see the truck cleaned and prepped before they sell it to someone else. If the dealer does decide to sell it to you, you should kiss their asses for putting up with your shit and only "screaming" at you once. Everybody here has already screamed at you, and I can only imagine how much more annoying you are to the dealer. Viperpilot has a problem with you?!! The guy does nothing but help people (namely you) out here. Looks like he had enough of that too, thanks to you. If the dealer allows you to buy this truck from them, I hope it catches fire on the way home. Annnd... I bash you. Idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Did you notice that Norfolk Southern railroad already has a toll free number to track railcars? Once I had the value of the rail car carrying my vehicle, it was self-service all the way without needing to take a salesperson away from selling cars, his/her main function. The service was completely automated using voice recognition software. That tracking service is included in the price Norfolk Southern charges Ford and others for shipping which is in turn passed along to consumers. It's not free by any stretch of the imagination, nor should it be. FedEx, DHL, and UPS provide similar consumer-oriented tracking systems. It’s time for Ford to join the 21rst century like everyone else by providing an open, transparent ordering process, even if current franchise laws means keeping the dealer in the transaction loop. No I did not...but then again I did not care. I have never sat here and b1tched and moaned tirelessly about how badly I was being treated by Ford Motor Company or my dealer. I understood that how when placing an order months prior to the start of production that I would indeed have a long wait on my hand. I have at all times treated my dealer and Ford with respect and as a result, (which may or may not be related but I like my odds on that one), I have been treated well and given great, consistent and reliable information by my dealer during this process. Yes, it is easy for me to feel this way as opposed to you because I have my vehicle but I think my attitude (along with that of almost every other poster here) stand as a better way to go about this process compared to yours. As a matter of fact I asked my dealer a question a few weeks ago and he referred me to the area within Ford I needed to go to get this and he even called me back last week to see if I had received the info I wanted and to see if there was anything he could do to help. Someone else on here made a comment mistakingly thinking my dealer and I were friends and that this was why I got the service I did. Let me set that record straight...the salesperson I have worked with are not friends nor have I ever even seen him outside of the dealership. What we are is friendly. I treat him well and he, in turn does the same for me. I have been working with him for over a year since I was considering ordering a 2008 FEH prior to production only to wait another year. He has stayed in contact with me to see if there was anything he could do to help me once I made my decision to move forward. I have already stated that I think your dealer is a piece of crap for the way they have held you up and that I would have jumped ship a long time ago. I venture to say that you would probably already have your vehicle if you had done so when you were first given that advice on this board. But you chose to dig your heels in and threaten to go to court damned and determined to prove your point. Applause, applause...I am sure you will win big and show us all that this was well worth it. Hopefully the other posters on this board won't file a class action suit against you to get back what you owe them for the pain and suffering caused by having to read a thread only to find it was being updated by your mundane crying. By the way...I work for one of those shipping companies and if you think the production of a vehicle is a process that can be compared to shipping a package you are sadly mistaken. Your example of the rail system is much more in line with that comparison and guess what? They provide that as you just pointed out above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Oh my little buddy was kind enough to send me this tonight: If you haven't figured it out already, I don't grant others such as yourself the power to determine what I do or don't post on these forums. Cast aspersions about me all you wish. It has no effect. Now if you wish to discuss Ford vehicles, their acquisition, operation, quirks, nuances, likes, dislikes and the dealers that sell them, I'll be glad to oblige you and anyone else who is similarly inclined. So listen here fmorriso let me just make sure we are clear...you don't like me complaining about your posts and I don't like your constant bitching, moaning and acting like a spoiled little brat. You sir, are a nightmare of a customer and an overall pest. I cannot wait for you to receive your vehicle so we may have slight chance of being spared your constant posts of 'where is my vehicle', 'look what my dealer is doing to me', 'why is ford afraid to open up their ordering/tracking process', 'why do I like to wear women's underwear' or whatever else is going on inside your twisted (and in need of help) little mind. Believe me WE ARE ALL aware that you do not care what others think. If you did then you would have taken a breath and read what you have posted and what others have posted back and changed your tactics. No sir, as you are so fond of using the smiley of the head being smashed, I am quite certain that no one has ever been able to convince you that you are wrong. In fact, you probably think you have never been wrong. Be sure tell us all when you are ready to "discuss Ford vehicles, their acquisition, operation, quirks, nuances, likes, dislikes and the dealers that sell them" without your conspiracy theories and innuendos. When you are ready to discuss real facts and observations without threatening lawsuits then I am sure other posters will be glad to oblige YOU. Until that time (as I am sure you will) contine posting your pathetic confused opinions and I (and maybe others) will be glad to continue to laugh my a$$ off at your little issues. Cheers pal. Oh...and don't be shocked if your dealer knows all too well about your posts on this board. There are A LOT of Ford employees on here that may not care much for your posts. Edited October 21, 2008 by Green Lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 There are A LOT of Ford employees on here that may not care much for your posts.They are welcome to discuss their concerns here or over in their own employee-only forum. My issues are not with Ford assembly line employees. Specifically, the ones at KCAP are to be congratulated for building quality vehicles that Americans want. I'm going to make a guess Ford assembly line employees are more concerned about how many of us are buying Ford products so they can stay employed than what one customer says in this section of the forum about a dealer. You are correct in one sense. Once I take delivery of the vehicle, this thread ends. FYI: today is the 6-month "anniversary" of when I placed the vehicle order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Then I hope your vehicle gets here soon! But why then do you continue to post about the matter? And you are right in that I am sure most Ford employees don't care what your views are on the matter. On that topic I would say that 99% of this board feels the same way but you don't let it just be a personal matter that you deal with. You make sure that almost every thread you post in you make sure you get to slip in some comment over your trials and tribulations like everyone cares. Remember, you said it, not me...no one cares so quit posting about it. I would hate to be your neighbor or a member of your home owner's association. I bet you are a royal pain in the a$$ for most people you meet. Edited October 21, 2008 by Green Lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 If the dealer allows you to buy this truck from them, I hope it catches fire on the way home. And may God bless you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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