Police Departments Look to Trade

[rscalzo]

No, my department is in Secaucus, NJ just a few miles outside of NYC. 75 of around town driving and the cars are toast. Maybe 15k from a set of Goodyear tires. At one time we did sell off the old cars to the taxi companies but they are no longer interested. The cab regulations prohibite them from buying the older beatup cars any longer. In any case they all switched over to minivan style vehicles years ago for the cost savings. We rotate the older cars to other town agencies. By that time they have about 100k and are pretty beat up. It is tough driving and very sevdere service. In contrast, the NJ State Police remove cars from service around 75K and they run the highways.

 

NYC has a ton of them left but they are rapidly switching over to the Escape Hybrid due to city regulations. The CV does not meet the future requirements and the cab operators found the Excapes hold up as well as or better than the CV. The passengers love them and the vast increase in gas mileage is a big money saver.

[Bob Rosadini]

Well said Bob, glad to hear the black 07 Sport going strong.

Topgun

That it is. And your signature in the trunk gets a lot of smiles from people when I show them- a "custom CV"!

[Bob Rosadini]

No, my department is in Secaucus, NJ just a few miles outside of NYC. 75 of around town driving and the cars are toast. Maybe 15k from a set of Goodyear tires. At one time we did sell off the old cars to the taxi companies but they are no longer interested. The cab regulations prohibite them from buying the older beatup cars any longer. In any case they all switched over to minivan style vehicles years ago for the cost savings. We rotate the older cars to other town agencies. By that time they have about 100k and are pretty beat up. It is tough driving and very sevdere service. In contrast, the NJ State Police remove cars from service around 75K and they run the highways.

 

NYC has a ton of them left but they are rapidly switching over to the Escape Hybrid due to city regulations. The CV does not meet the future requirements and the cab operators found the Excapes hold up as well as or better than the CV. The passengers love them and the vast increase in gas mileage is a big money saver.

Well in any case, glad to hear the Escapes are holding up well- actually I find it hard to believe that any front wheel drive vehicle can have a lower operating cost then a RWD but if the Escapes are doing well, good news.

[rscalzo]

The Escapes are holding up so well that NYC is taking all the Hybrid Excapes they can get. The cab owners are saving a fourtune in gas costs over the CV in the city driving. The only question is what type of barrier s are installed. I believe they are mandatory in NYC cabs.

[WC-MAN]

The chargers aren't in the fleet long enough but with the 125K warrenty, it won't cost anything to keep them going.

 

That is, If GM honors it, which they won't. Plus, what about down-time? Doesn't it cost money for a cop car sitting in a dealership repair bay instead of serving and protecting?

[Milstar 04 Sport]

That is, If GM honors it, which they won't. Plus, what about down-time? Doesn't it cost money for a cop car sitting in a dealership repair bay instead of serving and protecting?

 

Just means they will have to use their older cars, CV, to fill in.

 

After all, how many CV's do you see at the dealership?

[rscalzo]

If GM honors it

 

I doubt they will. the vehicles are made by Chrysler.

 

To date, the cars have been no more trouble prone that the CV. We have had Cv's die after 200 miles when the trans failed. At one point a significant portion of the CV fleet was down with the manifold problem that was not being covered by the company. Engines even today are being destroyed because of the stupid location of the air intake down low. Apparently the guy who designed it never thought that the vehicles were being used in less than ideel conditions and would suck up water thus hydrolocking the engine.

 

All vehicles have problems. Turn around is within a day. no agency uses every car in the fleet. We use no more than half per shift. Unless you are Mayberry and only have one car for the department schedules are maintained for servicing the cars. Service does cost money. Downtime for not servicing cost much more than routine service which does nothing towards the maintenancde of services for the community. You don't hire personnel just to fill a car seat.

[GhostTiger]

now that the cab companies are dropping the CV as their mainstay, pd's can't make it worth continuing the production line.

 

New York is the only place that's dropping the CV's, and that's not right away. We're still building as many CV's as we did last year, all fleet, so honestly, I have no clue where you get that idea. I see them day in and day out on the line....police and taxi. This isn't guess work, this is reality. And for the record, every police officer I've talked to love the CV, hates the Impala, and thinks the Charger is too small. (Police purchases here bear that out...I have yet to see either a Charger or Impala as a police unit up here)

[suv_guy_19]

(Police purchases here bear that out...I have yet to see either a Charger or Impala as a police unit up here)

 

 

Really? I see them all the time. The RCMP use a lot of impalas for town work and from the news I can see that many regional and local departments are now using some Chargers. I saw one just today on the story about the missing Barrie boy.

[FastTaurusSHO]

The chargers aren't in the fleet long enough but with the 125K warrenty, it won't cost anything to keep them going.

 

Trust me, it DOES cost. That cost might be paid for up front with the warranty, but it still costs in the end.

[rscalzo]

Trust me, it DOES cost. That cost might be paid for up front with the warranty, but it still costs in the end.

 

It sounds like you have little experience in fleet operations in LE. The day of the CV is closing, just like every other once popular le vehciles in the past.

[suv_guy_19]

It sounds like you have little experience in fleet operations in LE. The day of the CV is closing, just like every other once popular le vehciles in the past.

 

Unless of course the Charger disappears.

[WC-MAN]

Well they sure aren't going to use the Taurus to replace it. The name Dodge St. Regis comes to mind . I see two possibilities, Ford replaces the CV with a new RWD platform, or GM creates a Chevy out of the G8 as a police package. However, there is still a lot of life left in the CV.

[rscalzo]

Unless of course the Charger disappears

 

The CV got a two year extention solely as a settlement for a labor issue. Sales to LE are dropping rapidly. Cab sales have started to dry up. no one is buying the car any longer. Ford isn't keeping a line open simply for the meager sales to police agencies whose budgets are shrinking. Chrysler may go away but no one is staying in business on what they get from police departments. How much margin of profit is in a car sold for 20k out the door? In the past it was worth it to Ford to have the CV as a showpiece of police departments. Their bottom line has hit the "bottom" and today profit is the name of the game. They would rather close the CV line and double the sale of Escape Hybrids.

 

If Le had it's way, the Caprice would make a return., It was a far better police vehicle and everyone was sad to see it end but the profession moved on, just as it will when the CV fades away.

 

But the waqy, the St. Regis was a piece of Sh*t. The older corrents with the 440's were hot but didn't handle worth a sh*t. Gas at 25 cents a gallon wasn't an issue.

[Milstar 04 Sport]

The CV got a two year extention solely as a settlement for a labor issue. Sales to LE are dropping rapidly. Cab sales have started to dry up. no one is buying the car any longer. Ford isn't keeping a line open simply for the meager sales to police agencies whose budgets are shrinking. Chrysler may go away but no one is staying in business on what they get from police departments. How much margin of profit is in a car sold for 20k out the door? In the past it was worth it to Ford to have the CV as a showpiece of police departments. Their bottom line has hit the "bottom" and today profit is the name of the game. They would rather close the CV line and double the sale of Escape Hybrids.

 

If Le had it's way, the Caprice would make a return., It was a far better police vehicle and everyone was sad to see it end but the profession moved on, just as it will when the CV fades away.

 

But the waqy, the St. Regis was a piece of Sh*t. The older corrents with the 440's were hot but didn't handle worth a sh*t. Gas at 25 cents a gallon wasn't an issue.

 

Our county LEO fleet:

 

Lets remember the 1981 - 1982 Dodge Diplomats, now those were pieces of sh_t. From the sagging motor mounts to the collapsing suspension. Those cars kept our shop busy!

 

And the powerful 318, with lean burn!

 

We had better luck with the 1980 Dodge Aspens, and they had the same engine! They ran better! Fewer suspension problems!

 

The 1978 Chev Nova, with the 350, and three speed automatic was a screamer!

 

But in 1977, we had the Pontiac Bonneville, and got rid of those cars quick, they had overheating problems, and always in the shop broken!

[rscalzo]

1981 - 1982 Dodge Diplomats, now those were pieces of sh_t. From the sagging motor mounts to the collapsing suspension

 

We had them and had the same problems. A frames would crack on schedule. We were not kind to the cars.

 

Those Novas were hot !! Ours has the upgraded 350 ci engines and even an AM radio which was a plus. We had three. But at the time, the front seat equipment was not in existence just yet. Never went the Pontiac route. Then we started with the CV in the late 80's or early 90's up until last year.

[Hemiman]

Lets remember the 1981 - 1982 Dodge Diplomats, now those were pieces of sh_t. From the sagging motor mounts to the collapsing suspension. Those cars kept our shop busy!

 

And the powerful 318, with lean burn!

 

 

LOL! They were just awful. My town kept a 440 Monaco in service well past it's useful life just for high speed highway duty. When that finaly went down the road, the fastest vehicle in the fleet................... The dog catcher's 360 powered van.

 

Crown Vics were a welcomed change when those Dodge Dips were sent down the road.

[FastTaurusSHO]

It sounds like you have little experience in fleet operations in LE. The day of the CV is closing, just like every other once popular le vehciles in the past.

 

 

Not arguing the fact that the CV as the universal cop car is going away, in fact I agree with you. But that doesn't change the fact that fleet vehicles will have to be maintained, and they will always have maintaince/repair expenses, wether it's on the 'front side' or all along. Technology on the CV has developed at a disturbingly slow rate, and there are frankly better persuit/patrol cars available.

[rscalzo]

All our equipment must be maintained. anything in oiperation 24/7 in less than perfect conditions will break down. Even Rolls Royce has a service department. But in today's market and economic climate, cost and operational expense is a very big issue. It was not economically viable for Ford to put money into a vehicle that had no profit margin to it. The pr received from the use as a le vehicle has faded and no longer is worth much to the company. when the mandated two year factory extention is over, the name may stay but the vehicle in its present form will start to fade from view. Even the Caprice was a visible unit for many years and only now had pretty much disappeared from the profession.

[taxman100]

The Charger will be going away as well, with the slaughter and sell of piece by piece of Chrysler by their owners.

 

No Charger, no Crown Vic, no global RWD program for Ford = Impala by default.

[rscalzo]

Impala by default

I'd rather the St. Regis. ut you are right. The market can't support them.

[7Mary3]

Los Angeles County Sheriffs had the Novas. They were hot. GM built them in Van Nuys, and I was told the Police Novas got Z-28 Camaro 350's, suspension, and brakes. Wheels came off a Caprice wagon. Being a lighter car they would stay with a 440 Monaco. Biggest problem was deputy's crashing them. California Highway Patrol had Diplomats. 4bbl. 318 ran pretty good, but suspension was indeed junk. Cracked crossmembers, sagging upper control arm mounts. 'Fox' chassis LTD a disaster too. 1975 440 Monaco was a good one, 'box car' Caprice pretty good. 1994-96 LT-1 'Shamu' about the best. Late model CV's close. '79-'83 St. Regis/Gran Fury was actually a continuation of the old Mopar B Body. Good squad first few years with the 360 4bbl., but a real slug with a 318. C.H.P. tried them with the 318, but ended up selling them to other departments after 6 months.

Edited October 25, 2008 by 7Mary3

[96towncarcartier]

I think the new car of choice should be the 80/09 Taurus for those who do not need a full-fledged police car (Admin, paper service, etc).

 

Canada police departments spent several months test-driving Five Hundreds back in 2005, they just added radios, lights and sirens to the stock cars.

 

They reported that the cars handled very well, were very comfortable and did not break down at all.

 

Plus... the cars get 21 city and 29 highway.

 

AND you get a full size car with the largest trunk in the world!

 

 

Band aid solution to appease the tree huggers.

 

Once these departments realize all their fuel savings will be spent on repairing their fleet, they'll switch back. My city's department looked at the Charger, but it didn't pass their head mechanic's inspection. I'm sure some departments have or will switch over to smaller cars. But those ones will be used by Officers who aren't on the "front lines".

 

And much like all the press about the CV and the fuel tank fires, the story of these departments switching back will be ignored.

[rscalzo]

Police Novas got Z-28 Camaro 350's

 

They did if ordwered correctly. Only thing faster was the Nova's built on the Yenko and Motion Proformance on LI !!!

[GhostTiger]

The CV got a two year extention solely as a settlement for a labor issue. Sales to LE are dropping rapidly. Cab sales have started to dry up. no one is buying the car any longer. Ford isn't keeping a line open simply for the meager sales to police agencies whose budgets are shrinking. Chrysler may go away but no one is staying in business on what they get from police departments. How much margin of profit is in a car sold for 20k out the door? In the past it was worth it to Ford to have the CV as a showpiece of police departments. Their bottom line has hit the "bottom" and today profit is the name of the game. They would rather close the CV line and double the sale of Escape Hybrids.

 

I hate to say this yet again, but orders and our steady building of the cars proves your assumptions quite false. And it was a one year extension, not 2. Or did you fail to notice that september sales of the car were higher than last year? it's the Grand marquis that's in trouble, not the Vic. Please check the facts before you post next time.