J-150 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 How do you know that? What specifically on the EcoBoost powertrains would make them inherently less reliable than a diesel? turbo engines by design have a shorter lifespan. thats Engines 101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So, 4.4L possibly delayed on F-150, still going in the Expedition and Navi, as well as most likely going in the 250, 350, and possibly the 450 (doubtful) and E-series (sorely needed, especially on the E-150 IMHO). No big deal. It will still make plenty of volume. But, once again, I find myself underwhelmed by Ford's most powerful "half-ton" truck engine. When the GM 4.5L comes out, that torque number is going to sell a LOT of trucks for them that might have otherwise gone elsewhere. One question, will they offer the Allison 6 speed tranny behind that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 turbo engines by design have a shorter lifespan. thats Engines 101 Umm...you do realize that all those touted diesel engines have turbos also, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Umm...you do realize that all those touted diesel engines have turbos also, right? Shhh.... don't spoil our pristine view with your facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERKURXR4Ti Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Umm...you do realize that all those touted diesel engines have turbos also, right? With the exception of the GM 350 diesel...HAHA...longevity Everything in a modern diesel is really state of the art when compared to a motor like the 5.4 (DI, usually twin turbos, often variable geometry, intercoolers, advanced particulate filters...) and in my opinion offers no advantage in lifespan I will miss the 4.4L option, but this might be better in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Umm...you do realize that all those touted diesel engines have turbos also, right? of course, but a turbo diesel is not quite like a turbo gasser I invite you to speak with any mechanic and ask them which lasts longer, a turbo diesel or turbo gasser. Edited October 16, 2008 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 of course, but a turbo diesel is not quite like a turbo gasser I invite you to speak with any mechanic and ask them which lasts longer, a turbo diesel or turbo gasser. I doubt there are enough mechanics in the world that work on both turbo diesels and turbo gas engines often enough to tell you one way or the other. But there is nothing inherently "weaker" in a turbocharged gasoline engine that should lead to its premature demise compared to any other engine. Keep in mind we are not talking about turbocharged aftermarket engines that are being pushed for their absolute maximum performance. These are production engines. And like any other production engine, I'm sure they are rigorously tested to make sure they will last. Engines 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Correction: VW doesn't WANT to satisfy demand for diesel Jettas here. They are keeping supply levels artificially low to keep prices high. VW can do no wrong though. That "German-engineered" Chrysler minivan is going to take over the market for sure. :rolleyes: Obviously you cannot back that up with any type of data, which makes your post just your opinion and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I doubt there are enough mechanics in the world that work on both turbo diesels and turbo gas engines often enough to tell you one way or the other. But there is nothing inherently "weaker" in a turbocharged gasoline engine that should lead to its premature demise compared to any other engine. Keep in mind we are not talking about turbocharged aftermarket engines that are being pushed for their absolute maximum performance. These are production engines. And like any other production engine, I'm sure they are rigorously tested to make sure they will last. Engines 101. Once again you have no data to back up your assertions. Please quit offering you opinion as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Once again you have no data to back up your assertions. Please quit offering you opinion as fact. So it's my opinion that production engines are tested before being released? The burden of proof is not on me to demonstrate that one engine is less reliable than the other. Starting from a baseline, all engines are of equal reliability. It's my opinion that Volkwagen cannot send more than 30,000 VW diesels here even if they wanted to? Give it a rest, mlhm5. You'll be skating on thin ice next. Edited October 16, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Once again you have no data to back up your assertions. Please quit offering you opinion as fact. sorry mlhm....coming from you that is absolutely damn priceless.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 sorry mlhm....coming from you that is absolutely damn priceless.......... He figures if he tells it to us often enough, we'll stop demanding it of him. He figures wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 no ecoboost will ever equal a diesel in longevity, which is a very important factor in trucks used for work. Modern gasoline engines will run upwards of 200,000 miles. While I admit there are more million mile diesels than gassers, modern gassers are no longer considered dead at 100,000miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Modern gasoline engines will run upwards of 200,000 miles. While I admit there are more million mile diesels than gassers, modern gassers are no longer considered dead at 100,000miles. There's a gas-powered Volvo at my work with a Certified-300,000-Mile badge on the grille. :yup: Point is, a failing powertrain is usually not the reason people get rid of cars anymore. Edited October 16, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Obviously you cannot back that up with any type of data Why is VW limiting the number of diesels they sell in the US? What is YOUR opinion on that? Why is VW limiting the number of Jetta diesels to a figure that is roughly equal to the Escape hybrid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 And to the topic at hand: Someone earlier mentioned that "by the time Ford comes out with their diesel they'll be 2-3 years behind GM" Well, let's step back from our favorite vehicles, engines, and hobbyhorses (we all have them) and look at the big picture: GM's vaunted leads haven't helped them any. While you may criticize Ford's generally conservative culture, the reality is, they are in better shape than GM, in part due to that conservative culture. It's not all good, I assure you, but it's not all bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 And to the topic at hand: Someone earlier mentioned that "by the time Ford comes out with their diesel they'll be 2-3 years behind GM" Well, let's step back from our favorite vehicles, engines, and hobbyhorses (we all have them) and look at the big picture: GM's vaunted leads haven't helped them any. While you may criticize Ford's generally conservative culture, the reality is, they are in better shape than GM, in part due to that conservative culture. It's not all good, I assure you, but it's not all bad either. with that in mind, Ford could very well be letting GM do the experimentation with light duty truck diesels. If the engineering work is doen, it may not take much for the diesel to make it to Job 2 or 3 if GM sees success with diesels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 with that in mind, Ford could very well be letting GM do the experimentation with light duty truck diesels. If the engineering work is doen, it may not take much for the diesel to make it to Job 2 or 3 if GM sees success with diesels Well that's the whole point with Ford's diesels in all of their vehicles. As has been pointed out, they have diesels on their shelves already. It wouldn't take a whole lot of new engineering or time to get them up to US emissions spec if they needed to be. Knowing that, why would Ford jump into an unknown market with both feet when they can just as easily wade safely into the pool using the stairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Correction: VW doesn't WANT to satisfy demand for diesel Jettas here. They are keeping supply levels artificially low to keep prices high. VW can do no wrong though. That "German-engineered" Chrysler minivan is going to take over the market for sure. :rolleyes: link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 link? To what? The ugly rebadged VW minivan or to the common sense deduction that VW could ship a lot more diesel Jettas here if they wanted to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It wouldn't take a whole lot of new engineering or time to get them up to US emissions spec if they needed to be. I would be willing to bet that Ford has done cost estimates and fuel economy tests for US spec diesels. The vaunted 65mpg Fiesta would probably return a substantially smaller number stateside. That thing emits about .3 grams of NOx per mile, which does not compare favorably with the .4 g/mile emitted by the 6.8L V10 in the California spec F-250. You would need to seriously crimp the NOx, which means (among other things) a richer burn--or a higher percentage of EGR--both of which reduce mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So it's my opinion that production engines are tested before being released? The burden of proof is not on me to demonstrate that one engine is less reliable than the other. Starting from a baseline, all engines are of equal reliability. It's my opinion that Volkwagen cannot send more than 30,000 VW diesels here even if they wanted to? Give it a rest, mlhm5. You'll be skating on thin ice next. "But there is nothing inherently "weaker" in a turbocharged gasoline engine that should lead to its premature demise compared to any other engine." Link Please "VW doesn't WANT to satisfy demand for diesel Jettas here. They are keeping supply levels artificially low to keep prices high." Link Please " It wouldn't take a whole lot of new engineering or time to get them up to US emissions spec if they needed to be." Link Please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) "But there is nothing inherently "weaker" in a turbocharged gasoline engine that should lead to its premature demise compared to any other engine." Link Please "VW doesn't WANT to satisfy demand for diesel Jettas here. They are keeping supply levels artificially low to keep prices high." Link Please " It wouldn't take a whole lot of new engineering or time to get them up to US emissions spec if they needed to be." Link Please while you at it please post a link that unrefutably states ( sans OPINION ) that VW's or anyone elses diesel in the United States IS the holy grail AND the answer to all our dependency woes.....................Link Please... Edited October 16, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) "But there is nothing inherently "weaker" in a turbocharged gasoline engine that should lead to its premature demise compared to any other engine." Link Please The burden of proof is not on me to prove one engine is stronger than another. As I said, the baseline is that all engines are equally durable. All I am asking is what makes one engine less durable than another. So far no evidence has been presented. "VW doesn't WANT to satisfy demand for diesel Jettas here. They are keeping supply levels artificially low to keep prices high." Link Please www.commonsense.org And well, if it's not true, then VW is far more inept than you keep telling us they are. " It wouldn't take a whole lot of new engineering or time to get them up to US emissions spec if they needed to be." Link Please Ask oldwizard, our in-house Ford powertrain guru, who likely has more powertrain knowledge in his pinky than you do in that whole empty expanse atop of your shoulders that you call a head. And once again, you trying to turn the tables isn't going to make us any less diligent in riding your ass. Edited October 16, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Why on earth are we talking about Jettas in a F-150 thread? Oh yeah... I forgot... :slug: I see a space open above the fireplace for yet another head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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