UAW hails auto bailout but will work to remove 'unfair conditions'

[mettech]

I started to respond to some of these posts and then I got thoroughly disgusted. So I will just leave it at this:

 

Remember when we could buy televisions made in the U.S.A.?

 

Zenith, Motorola and RCA are where now?

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

Here are a few items that are USA made,

 

madeinusaforever

 

USA made TV

Edited December 21, 2008 by mettech

[mettech]

It's so unbelievable these answers floating around here. No, it's such small-minded thoughts that get us to this point. I'm better than you because I bought some tools and I did this. Or I make 80 to 140K because my boss can't find anyone to do it cheaper. Your all sitting here able to write this because someone else did something to allow you to be able to say how much better you are than the next person, because you judge yourself by what you have and the other person doesn't. OR, I can grab the plate of food faster than you, so that makes me superior.

 

Until you can secure your ability to live completely and totally without one external help in anyway, your no more better than anyone else. Someone designed the equipment to produce electricity and someone dug coal to operate a power-plant, meanwhile someone grew food so a miner could dig coal and someone provided fuel so the farmer could operate a machine and grow the food so the miner could dig coal and a person could make a machine to provide electricity so you could sit and say how much superior I am because I can do this and you can't. And I judge how much superior I am by how much someone else is willing to pay me, until someone else is willing to undercut me and do it cheaper than I. And onward and onward goes the downward spiral.

 

It's tear the other person down to make yourself feel better about yourself day.

 

What do you see that needs to be done to get the Big 3 back into the black?

[Critic]

What do you see that needs to be done to get the Big 3 back into the black?

I honestly can't answer this MTech. I'm in the food chain. All I can do is support someone that supports me, I scratch your back, while you scratch mine. Ultimately all wealth is derived from labor. I think a beginning is when we start to respect what each other does and start to applaud it for that. Then start to see what we can do to help the other guy, because that's called pay it forward, and it comes back to helping you. I am going to start worrying about my neighbor more than I worry about myself. When a door is closed, usually a window opens somewhere else.

[mettech]

Would you agree that capacity reductions are needed? I'm referring to Big 3 plants worldwide.

 

Would you agree that overhead needs to be reduced? I'm referring to all overhead not just white or blue collar overhead.

[davdog]

I think what everyone sees is a company that is paying an average of $28 an hour for labor that could easily fill those postions for much less an hour. Ultimately we the customers are paying the labor costs. The d3 had their multi-billion dollar plants held hostage until they gave into these wage demands.

 

I dare anyone to say that they could not cut that average wage for production work by $8 an hour and still fill everyone of those postions, and they wouldn't have to head south to do it. Heck at an average of $20 an hour they would have a waiting list for the postions.

 

When you're keeping the police at bay by holding a hostage and the hostage is almost dead you lose a whole lot of leverage.

 

All that's happening is a dose of reality.

[navlys32]

So the jobs bank that Toyota has should stay???? The UAW has been changing but I guess not a single person wants to realize that and keep bringing up the words like handcuffed, extortion, the UAW is the cause of all evil in the world.

 

All that stuff that was mentioned by akirby has been discussed but we can keep rehashing the old and keep beating a dead horse.

 

I honestly cant speak for toyota but the way i see it, and i could be wrong, is this:

 

Toyota makes billions in profit, so yes, but I bet once they start loosing billions and for many quarters, i bet they wouldn't hesitate to eliminate the job banks and other benefits to survive and woudlnt have the threat of their auto workers striking. and i bet once they were profitible again, they would bring back the job banks and other benefits and thats the way it should be in business. Like i said though, my thinking could be all wrong.

[dwford]

You have no idea what the hell your talking about. Have YOU read OUR contract? WE HAVE addressed our healthcare costs. WE HAVE increased copays. WE HAVE decreased benefits. WE CAN transfer and retain our benefits (I did). AND WE can be disciplined for cause. You people think we can just go to work and do what the hell we want and its NOT that way. But it's nice of you to acknowledge that the wages aren't the biggest problem. Now that the truth comes out and people know that our hourly rate IS comparable to the transplants (and in some cases lower) you will move on to something else about autoworkers to bitch about. Get over it, the UAW isn't going anywhere- and THATS what you don't like.

If your wages are truly comparable to the transplants, why is the UAW fighting the provision on the bailout that the union acheive wage parity with the transplants by Dec 31,2009. If you are already there, what's the problem?????

[theoldwizard]

Here are a few items that are USA made,

 

USA made TV

Olevia parent corporation has filed for bankruptcy

[Critic]

I think what everyone sees is a company that is paying an average of $28 an hour for labor that could easily fill those postions for much less an hour.

 

How many times do you have to keep REPEATING YOURSELF over and over and over? EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE here and in the employee forum knows exactly where you stand.

 

You've never asked yourself the REAL question. HOW COME YOUR PAYING SO MUCH for an import name when their paying so little for their labor rate?

[F250]

I started to respond to some of these posts and then I got thoroughly disgusted. So I will just leave it at this:

 

Remember when we could buy televisions made in the U.S.A.?

 

Zenith, Motorola and RCA are where now?

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

Destroyed by government backed foreign manufacturers.

 

Big business has always tried to pay as little as possible for labor without limits, they have had slavery, child labor, foreign labor...

A little history...

 

"If all employers in each competitive group agree to pay their workers the same wages -- reasonable wages -- and require the same hours -- reasonable hours -- then higher wages and shorter hours will hurt no employer. Moreover, such action is better for the employer than unemployment and low wages, because it makes more buyers for his product. "...

 

In the following consider replacing the word child with the word foreign

"Here is an example. In the Cotton Textile Code and in other agreements already signed, child labor has been abolished. That makes me personally happier than any other one thing with which I have been connected since I came to Washington. In the textile industry -- an industry which came to me spontaneously and with a splendid cooperation as soon as the recovery act was signed, -- child labor was an old evil. But no employer acting alone was able to wipe it out. If one employer tried it, or if one state tried it, the costs of operation rose so high that it was impossible to compete with the employers or states which had failed to act. The moment the Recovery Act was passed, this monstrous thing which neither opinion nor law could reach through years of effort went out in a flash."

 

President Franklin Roosevelt

July 24, 1933

Radio Address of the President from the White House - 9:30pm.

 

It took years but after the trade laws changed the textile industry and others just went to third world countries for their cheap labor. Today we are back to CEOs pocketing obscene profits while thousands of Americans loose their jobs.

 

When is this country going to wake up and realize that destroying good paying jobs (of all types) is killing our economy.

Our economy is like a food chain as Critic described and we have almost destroyed domestic manufacturing by allowing unlimited foreign access.

[soupy]

I think what everyone sees is a company that is paying an average of $28 an hour for labor that could easily fill those postions for much less an hour. Ultimately we the customers are paying the labor costs. The d3 had their multi-billion dollar plants held hostage until they gave into these wage demands.

 

I dare anyone to say that they could not cut that average wage for production work by $8 an hour and still fill everyone of those postions, and they wouldn't have to head south to do it. Heck at an average of $20 an hour they would have a waiting list for the postions.

 

When you're keeping the police at bay by holding a hostage and the hostage is almost dead you lose a whole lot of leverage.

 

All that's happening is a dose of reality.

 

davdog, if you had 100 employes and cut thier pay 5.00 dollars you could make an extra 500 an hour,4000 a day, 32000 a week. Now your employes and thier families would suffer, but you would do alright. If you cut thier lunch break in half, you could then eat half thier lunch. Now your employes would go hungry, but you would not. Then dogdav, you would be helping to start a new UNION! Or you could just move your operations further DOWN south.

[theoldwizard]

Sure there's all kinds of issues pertaining to this, but to solely put the blame on unions is hogwash. Why should I or anybody else take a pay cut and sacrifice my way of a nice living solely on the bad decisions made from the Nasser days and even before that. This overpaid nonsense needs to stop but if I sit at a desk working on a computer and getting paid $90,000/yr that's okay, but getting paid less than $55,000/yr tearing your body apart...

Why is it that every UAW member scream bloody murder about inaccurate labor costs, yet they are extremely free with spreading mis-information about salaried wages ?

 

Non-management, salaried employees (GSR1-8) make nowhere near $90K/year ! Sure a few of the top GSR8 might make that or more, but almost everyone with more than 20 years of service has left the company. I would guess that the average GSR is somewhere between $50K-75K/year. New hires start at less than $40k/year (that's $20/hour)

 

Remember, the vast majority of these people DO NOT GET PAID OVERTIME ! On top of that they are routinely reminded that they are "expected" to work 9-10 hours per day !

 

Then compare benefits. UAW gets far superior health, dental and optical benefits. New hire engineers get even less. The only thing that is still on a level playing field is holidays.

 

The company has already announced another salaried cut that will happen in 1Q09. They also just announced a cut in severance payout. Dull the ax before dropping it !

 

So please, UAW members, stop shooting your mouth off about things that you don't have the facts on. It just makes YOU LOOK STUPID !

Edited December 21, 2008 by theoldwizard

[RaZor]

What do you see that needs to be done to get the Big 3 back into the black?

 

Actually that is quite simple. Enact a free trade moratorium immediately. Then review all policies with ALL trading partners. Eliminate any competitive advantage through use of VAT or other indirect taxing policies (Germany plus over 150 other countries that use this method). Stipulate that any trading partner must open their markets to the same extent (as ours is) and require them to submit specific steps that they are going to take to balance the trade imbalance within one year.

 

This would require that Korea and Japan would have to submit a plan to either allow as many America imports (such as vehicles) into their market as they export to ours. We should all be familiar with the imbalance of say, Korea auto exports at a ratio of 700,000 to 5,000 sales per year against the U.S., or that Japan has an even greater imbalance. This plan could be that other products (other than cars or electronics) could be used to BALANCE the trade between countries. However, we would have to be smart enough to see through their little tricks such as Japan's propensity to use inspectors to delay customs clearance - to even the extent that perishable agricultural products spoil on ships waiting to be unloaded/inspected in Japanese harbors. Let them know that all it would take is a phone call from an American importer (being delayed) to the State dept and their imports would receive the same "delays" entering our country. About the time that they realize that they will have numerous container ships that are not allowed to dock here . . . just might "grease" the wheels of customs clearance . . .over there.

 

I'll relate an example: My son worked for a software company a few years ago had a contract for software that demonstrated the abilities of "goggles" that Canon (a Japanese company) had developed that essentially allowed for a virtual experience. Think of the hologram deck on Star Trek. Canon wanted them to come to Japan and have a booth that would demonstrate the abilities of the "goggles". They put together a booth and shipped it to Japan along with personnel for the trade show. They were not there to sell anything - they didn't even have any products for sale.

 

The Japanese customs held up clearance for so long on their booth that the trade show was over (they had to perform a makeshift demonstration at the show without the booth) - and the booth never was cleared. Oh, and they wanted a customs fee (I forget how much 10-15%) even though there wasn't any commercial products. Only a booth. This is just an example of how far the Japanese will go - even when it is FOR (benefits) a Japanese company.

 

In short, we need to be better business people when it comes to trade. . . and stop allowing competitive advantages of foreign companies . . . in our own country. It boggles my mind why people can't seem to figure out that GM & Ford can make profits in other global markets. . . and yet, have a hard time turning a profit here. Why is that if not other than foreign manufacturers are selling their vehicles here for substantially less than they sell them overseas (true with the three countries noted above)? That makes it difficult for D3 to make a profit here in their own country. That has to end. (Period)

[davdog]

How many times do you have to keep REPEATING YOURSELF over and over and over? EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE here and in the employee forum knows exactly where you stand.

 

You've never asked yourself the REAL question. HOW COME YOUR PAYING SO MUCH for an import name when their paying so little for their labor rate?

 

I don't drive an import. I've gone from a pinto to a chevette to an escort to a a taurus and now to a new ranger.

 

I just want fair costs for my money. Is that asking too much?

[simplesituations]

Why is it that every UAW member scream bloody murder about inaccurate labor costs, yet they are extremely free with spreading mis-information about salaried wages ?

 

Non-management, salaried employees (GSR1-8) make nowhere near $90K/year ! Sure a few of the top GSR8 might make that or more, but almost everyone with more than 20 years of service has left the company. I would guess that the average GSR is somewhere between $50K-75K/year. New hires start at less than $40k/year (that's $20/hour)

 

Remember, the vast majority of these people DO NOT GET PAID OVERTIME ! On top of that they are routinely reminded that they are "expected" to work 9-10 hours per day !

 

Then compare benefits. UAW gets far superior health, dental and optical benefits. New hire engineers get even less. The only thing that is still on a level playing field is holidays.

 

The company has already announced another salaried cut that will happen in 1Q09. They also just announced a cut in severance payout. Dull the ax before dropping it !

 

So please, UAW members, stop shooting your mouth off about things that you don't have the facts on. It just makes YOU LOOK STUPID !

Wizard, I never implied Ford white collar workers were making that much so don't try to make this a blue collar vs white collar battle

[simplesituations]

I don't drive an import. I've gone from a pinto to a chevette to an escort to a a taurus and now to a new ranger.

 

I just want fair costs for my money. Is that asking too much?

And all you do is keep repeating the same question, over and over again and again.

[mettech]

Actually that is quite simple. Enact a free trade moratorium immediately. Then review all policies with ALL trading partners. Eliminate any competitive advantage through use of VAT or other indirect taxing policies (Germany plus over 150 other countries that use this method). Stipulate that any trading partner must open their markets to the same extent (as ours is) and require them to submit specific steps that they are going to take to balance the trade imbalance within one year.

 

This would require that Korea and Japan would have to submit a plan to either allow as many America imports (such as vehicles) into their market as they export to ours. We should all be familiar with the imbalance of say, Korea auto exports at a ratio of 700,000 to 5,000 sales per year against the U.S., or that Japan has an even greater imbalance. This plan could be that other products (other than cars or electronics) could be used to BALANCE the trade between countries. However, we would have to be smart enough to see through their little tricks such as Japan's propensity to use inspectors to delay customs clearance - to even the extent that perishable agricultural products spoil on ships waiting to be unloaded/inspected in Japanese harbors. Let them know that all it would take is a phone call from an American importer (being delayed) to the State dept and their imports would receive the same "delays" entering our country. About the time that they realize that they will have numerous container ships that are not allowed to dock here . . . just might "grease" the wheels of customs clearance . . .over there.

 

I'll relate an example: My son worked for a software company a few years ago had a contract for software that demonstrated the abilities of "goggles" that Canon (a Japanese company) had developed that essentially allowed for a virtual experience. Think of the hologram deck on Star Trek. Canon wanted them to come to Japan and have a booth that would demonstrate the abilities of the "goggles". They put together a booth and shipped it to Japan along with personnel for the trade show. They were not there to sell anything - they didn't even have any products for sale.

 

The Japanese customs held up clearance for so long on their booth that the trade show was over (they had to perform a makeshift demonstration at the show without the booth) - and the booth never was cleared. Oh, and they wanted a customs fee (I forget how much 10-15%) even though there wasn't any commercial products. Only a booth. This is just an example of how far the Japanese will go - even when it is FOR (benefits) a Japanese company.

 

In short, we need to be better business people when it comes to trade. . . and stop allowing competitive advantages of foreign companies . . . in our own country. It boggles my mind why people can't seem to figure out that GM & Ford can make profits in other global markets. . . and yet, have a hard time turning a profit here. Why is that if not other than foreign manufacturers are selling their vehicles here for substantially less than they sell them overseas (true with the three countries noted above)? That makes it difficult for D3 to make a profit here in their own country. That has to end. (Period)

 

How would your suggestions allow the Big 3 return to profits? The primary problem is lose of market share.

 

Does the USA transplants get any benefit from there homeland that makes them unfair compared to the Big 3 products sold here?

 

Does the transplants export cars here in the USA back to their homeland or to other overseas markets?

 

I know when I was in Germany, I could buy a M-B a lot less there than I could here in the USA.

[Ralph Greene]

The laws of economics are working. Automobile manufacturing is a mature business, with too much capacity, too many competitors, too many people involved....for it to be a profitable business for all involved. Most mature business never become super profitable again. Their products gradually become low profit commodity items (maybe economy cars?), and then those that survive just become the best at low cost lean manufacturing. So even after this restructing, don't expect this to ever become the industry it once was....with high profits and wages.

 

And....Econ 101 says the wages (and benefits) to the workers will work their way to what is paid by the lowest paying competitor. You cannot stop this from happening. The UAW, as you know it, is done. Unless, of course, you wish to pay Union dues for Hyundai type wages and benefits.

 

Oh....And don't confuse wages and benefits received (or not received) by an individual to total employee costs to the manufacturers....which some in above arguments seem to be confused about.

 

I take no joy in knowing this will happen. But the laws of economics always work out eventually. 50 years ago the "big three" didn't really have to compete, they just had to keep the playing field the same. Now they have to compete in a global market....with it's ups and downs. A huge difference.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[papilgee4evaeva]

Olevia parent corporation has filed for bankruptcy

 

That sucks... I'd probably still buy one though.

 

No one mentioned Vizio though...

[wildosvt]

Why is it that every UAW member scream bloody murder about inaccurate labor costs, yet they are extremely free with spreading mis-information about salaried wages ?

 

Non-management, salaried employees (GSR1-8) make nowhere near $90K/year ! Sure a few of the top GSR8 might make that or more, but almost everyone with more than 20 years of service has left the company. I would guess that the average GSR is somewhere between $50K-75K/year. New hires start at less than $40k/year (that's $20/hour)

 

Remember, the vast majority of these people DO NOT GET PAID OVERTIME ! On top of that they are routinely reminded that they are "expected" to work 9-10 hours per day !

 

Then compare benefits. UAW gets far superior health, dental and optical benefits. New hire engineers get even less. The only thing that is still on a level playing field is holidays.

 

The company has already announced another salaried cut that will happen in 1Q09. They also just announced a cut in severance payout. Dull the ax before dropping it !

 

So please, UAW members, stop shooting your mouth off about things that you don't have the facts on. It just makes YOU LOOK STUPID !

 

 

Why did'nt you mention that almost all of the "new" work in the engineering field is being outsourced? Or filled with TEMP workers.

[Pioneer]

Why is it that every UAW member scream bloody murder about inaccurate labor costs, yet they are extremely free with spreading mis-information about salaried wages ?

 

Non-management, salaried employees (GSR1-8) make nowhere near $90K/year ! Sure a few of the top GSR8 might make that or more, but almost everyone with more than 20 years of service has left the company. I would guess that the average GSR is somewhere between $50K-75K/year. New hires start at less than $40k/year (that's $20/hour)

 

Remember, the vast majority of these people DO NOT GET PAID OVERTIME ! On top of that they are routinely reminded that they are "expected" to work 9-10 hours per day !

 

Then compare benefits. UAW gets far superior health, dental and optical benefits. New hire engineers get even less. The only thing that is still on a level playing field is holidays.

 

The company has already announced another salaried cut that will happen in 1Q09. They also just announced a cut in severance payout. Dull the ax before dropping it !

 

So please, UAW members, stop shooting your mouth off about things that you don't have the facts on. It just makes YOU LOOK STUPID !

 

Sounds like the salaried folks need to organise.

[Mark B. Morrow]

I think what everyone sees is a company that is paying an average of $28 an hour for labor that could easily fill those postions for much less an hour. Ultimately we the customers are paying the labor costs. The d3 had their multi-billion dollar plants held hostage until they gave into these wage demands.

 

I dare anyone to say that they could not cut that average wage for production work by $8 an hour and still fill everyone of those postions, and they wouldn't have to head south to do it. Heck at an average of $20 an hour they would have a waiting list for the postions.

 

When you're keeping the police at bay by holding a hostage and the hostage is almost dead you lose a whole lot of leverage.

 

All that's happening is a dose of reality.

 

 

The fact is that nearly every job could be done for less. There are neurosurgeons in India who make a fraction of what we pay here. The whole Congress could be replaced by citizens who would work for half of what the current salary is. What ever job you hold DavDog could be done for less by a qualified person who doesn't have a job. Should we also hold our CEOs to the same level of pay as their Japanese counterparts? If you want to engage in a race to the bottom, there will always be someone who will work for less.

 

The problem I have with our government and our business is that we have become shortsighted. We look only at the next quarter and the current stock price. We reward outsourcing to the lowest cost producer by giving tax breaks to corporations that send our industry overseas.

 

If America stops making things and adding value, we are doomed. We cannot have an economy based on serving each other things that are made elsewhere. By killing off the middle class, no one will be able to afford the goods companies run by the wealthy produce.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Mark B. Morrow

[simplesituations]

The fact is that nearly every job could be done for less. There are neurosurgeons in India who make a fraction of what we pay here. The whole Congress could be replaced by citizens who would work for half of what the current salary is. What ever job you hold DavDog could be done for less by a qualified person who doesn't have a job. Should we also hold our CEOs to the same level of pay as their Japanese counterparts? If you want to engage in a race to the bottom, there will always be someone who will work for less.

 

The problem I have with our government and our business is that we have become shortsighted. We look only at the next quarter and the current stock price. We reward outsourcing to the lowest cost producer by giving tax breaks to corporations that send our industry overseas.

 

If America stops making things and adding value, we are doomed. We cannot have an economy based on serving each other things that are made elsewhere. By killing off the middle class, no one will be able to afford the goods companies run by the wealthy produce.

He doesn't see that but only feels autoworkers shouldn't be paid a good living wage. He needs to realize that any product bought, whether a car or software has labor cost in it. I guess when we are all at the bottom and realize we will be a third world country, he may change his mind.

 

Let's not bring the standards to American levels but lets bring them down third world levels.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Many have forgotten or do not understand the lesson of Fordism:

 

As owner of the Ford Company he became one of the richest and best-known people in the world. He is credited with "Fordism", that is, the mass production of large numbers of inexpensive automobiles using the assembly line, coupled with high wages for his workers. Ford had a global vision, with consumerism as the key to peace.

 

Henry Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism" designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots. Efficiency meant hiring and keeping the best workers.

 

Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914. The revolutionary program called for a raise in minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying workers. It also set a new, reduced workweek, although the details vary in different accounts. Ford and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[15] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[16] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later made them days off.) Ford says that with this voluntary change, labor turnover in his plants went from huge to so small that he stopped bothering to measure it.[17]

 

When Ford started the 40-hour work week and a minimum wage he was criticized by other industrialists and by Wall Street. He proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the economy. Ford explained the change in part of the "Wages" chapter of My Life and Work.[18] He labeled the increased compensation as profit-sharing rather than wages.

 

Ford created customers for his products by paying his workers enough to be able to afford a car. He also helped create a middle class that would drive a consumer economy. Of course, the better the middle class did the more money Ford made. When the middle class does well the rich do very well.

[simplesituations]

Many have forgotten or do not understand the lesson of Fordism:

 

As owner of the Ford Company he became one of the richest and best-known people in the world. He is credited with "Fordism", that is, the mass production of large numbers of inexpensive automobiles using the assembly line, coupled with high wages for his workers. Ford had a global vision, with consumerism as the key to peace.

 

Henry Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism" designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots. Efficiency meant hiring and keeping the best workers.

 

Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914. The revolutionary program called for a raise in minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying workers. It also set a new, reduced workweek, although the details vary in different accounts. Ford and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[15] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[16] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later made them days off.) Ford says that with this voluntary change, labor turnover in his plants went from huge to so small that he stopped bothering to measure it.[17]

 

When Ford started the 40-hour work week and a minimum wage he was criticized by other industrialists and by Wall Street. He proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the economy. Ford explained the change in part of the "Wages" chapter of My Life and Work.[18] He labeled the increased compensation as profit-sharing rather than wages.

 

Ford created customers for his products by paying his workers enough to be able to afford a car. He also helped create a middle class that would drive a consumer economy. Of course, the better the middle class did the more money Ford made. When the middle class does well the rich do very well.

but now we are going in reverse and this economy will never recover if its normal working class citizens are forced to make a pay cut. If it happens with the autoworkers,(and I mean all auto workers) it'll then be a domino effect to every job over time.