"An unfair assault on 'workers'"

[dork270]

16th Amendment, and it should be repealed in favor of the FairTax.

 

[Maislebandit]

Honestly, if the UAW let guys have multiple job "titles" and let anyone fix anything that's busted somewhere in the plant, and not require 2 millwrights to move some heavy equipment, we'd all be in business in the USA.

 

Have two job classifications: Move Heavy Shit, Move Light Shit, nuff said.

 

 

No, not "nuff said".

 

First, if you want to let just "anyone" in a plant do millwright work you are creating a very unsafe scenario. Second, you are begging for equipment to get wrecked. You must have a very narrow point of view to make an assumption as you have. Did you know that outside of the UAW that many millwrights do not do their own rigging? Did you also know that many of them do not run equipment and have operators to do that? Did you know that most millwrights do not do ironwork on the outside?

 

If you want to form an opinion, that is fine. Doing so without knowing what you are talking about however, shoots down any credibility you may have.

[nvsked]

And for those of you that cannot think past "I've got mine - you get yours" or "I do not want any of my money to provide health care for the fat, lazy, smoker that drinks to much and is depressed because he is lazy", apparently you guys are unaware that over sixty percent of current health care spending in the U.S. is funded by government. Now go back up a few paragraphs and see what that 31% figure goes for again. I would assume that you, who cannot see past your own horizons, would want to get the best bang for your (money) tax dollar.

 

Health care isn't a luxury good, like a flat-screen television--something you can put off when money is tight. People do economize on health care when times are tough, but only so much and with serious risks, both physical and financial. The better way to think about health care is like an upfront deduction from family income. If you make that deduction smaller, families have more to spend on other things, improving their own situation and the economy in general. Now think about what you'll have left to spend come 2016 - if we keep things like they are now.

 

And if you are worried that it will mean health care rationing, the U.S. already rations health care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study by the prestigious Institute of Medicine found that 18,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.

 

You have nothing to fear with UHC. I suppose that you weren't thinking about those 18,000 and their families when you used the word "misery", eh? Must be that you haven't got to Psalms 82:3-4 in your reading yet.

 

+100

[jpd80]

If you want to form an opinion, that is fine. Doing so without knowing what you are talking about however, shoots down any credibility you may have.

+1

Without properly trained and instructed workers performing tasks, companies and supervisors

are liable for any injury claim and possibly penalties / fines from regulatory bodies.

In most places if you can't provide documentation for the above,

you're in breech and subject to disciplinary action.

Edited January 3, 2009 by jpd80

[nvsked]

Should everyone in the USA get the same type of health care? I say no. Excellent and good health care should be treated as compensation to draw excellent employees to a company or agency. That is one of the main reasons I joined the military is because of the health care for me and my family.

 

We the people, of the United States in order to form a more perfect a Union, dedicated to the proposition that all people are created equal....

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=7hWOpH0d3...s&source=bl

 

Federalist also blended an old world recognition of status with an American appreciation of earned merit....

Federalist did not think that ordinary men (and women) had much to contribute to public life.....If Jeffersonian's could be labeled Democratic Republicans instead of just Republicans, Federalist could capture the glorious name Republican for themselves.

 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[jpd80]

Under the Aussie model, health funds cannot discriminate between individuals entering a health fund.

Our young people have until 30 years old to join without prejudice but people over this age have to

pay an additional charge for the first few years. Government pays a 30% rebate to people in private health funds.

 

People who chose not to have private health insurance are still covered by Medicare but public

hospitals have lengthy waiting lists for elective surgery.

 

The Aussie public see this as fair and reasonable - not sure if this would work in the USA.

Edited January 3, 2009 by jpd80

[nvsked]

Under the Aussie model, health funds cannot discriminate between individuals entering a health fund.

Our young people have until 30 years old to join without prejudice but people over this age have to

pay an additional charge for the first few years. Government pays a 30% rebate to people in private health funds.

 

People who chose not to have private health insurance are still covered by Medicare but public

hospitals have lengthy waiting lists for elective surgery.

 

The Aussie public see this as fair and reasonable - not sure if this would work in the USA.

 

I guess that depends, are we talking about an excellent person, or a mediocre person i.e. adequate or acceptable, but not very good

[jpd80]

I guess that depends, are we talking about an excellent person, or a mediocre person i.e. adequate or acceptable, but not very good

There is no rating system - all people entering the system must be accepted by law without prejudice.

The only stipulation is waiting time for pre existing medical conditions - this can be 6 to 12 months.

Every now and then the funds have an amnesty to get moe enrollments.

The system works - a good balance between US private and British national systems.

[nvsked]

Conducting Diplomacy through Health

 

When President Bush announced a new humanitarian effort in March 2007, he said “The United States military is a symbol of strength for this nation. They’re also a symbol of the great compassion of the American people and our desire to help those in our neighborhood who need help

 

http://www.tricare.mil/stakeholders/downlo...olders_2008.pdf

 

As we all know, the damage wrought by Hurricane Katrina and the levee breeches on Louisiana is staggering—over 1,400 lives lost and 900,000 people displaced, 18,750 businesses destroyed, over 200,000 homes damaged or destroyed, and over 220,000 jobs lost.4 The immediate impact of Katrina on the health system was the destruction of health care services in New Orleans as hospitals flooded and patients were evacuated.

Federal funding did not become available until the Congress authorized $2 billion for the Medicaid coverage and uncompensated care pools nearly six months after the storm through the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005.

There are no emergency provisions in Medicaid that provide flexibility to simplify the rules and extend Medicaid coverage with federal financing in a crisis situation such as this. After 9/11, Disaster Relief Medicaid in New York City provided a model for using Medicaid to provide immediate coverage by streamlining the process and the rules, but the federal response to Katrina followed a different path.

 

http://www.allhealth.org/BriefingMaterials...stimony-704.pdf

 

• In January 2007, a U.S. military medical team spent three weeks in Choculeta, Honduras, where they saved the lives of four newborns, performed 167 major surgeries, and conducted 500 medical exams at the regional Hospital del Sur.

• In Afghanistan’s Khost province, many U.S. troops at Forward Operating Base Salerno spend their off-duty days volunteering to help treat patients at the base’s burn clinic. In the region’s harsh climate, hundreds of people are burned each year from exploding heaters in their homes. The U.S. military treats patients at its on-base clinic and has trained Afghan medical specialists to set up a burn clinic outside the military base.

• In February 2007, a team of 20 Air Force medics provided healthcare for more than 6,500 people La Pita, El Sol, and Santa Teresa, Nicaragua, while an Army veterinary team vaccinated more than 3,300 animals for farmers in 10 communities. Follow-on medical teams worked in Nicaragua through mid-March.

• U.S. troops deployed to Bangladesh in the aftermath of a November 15, 2007 cyclone. The Task Force arrived off the Bangladeshi coast aboard the USS Kearsarge, along with the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, on November 23. The United States is one of 25 countries providing more than $4 billion in aid. Documents a dramatic increase in favorable public opinion by the people of Indonesia and Pakistan after these efforts. Our medical personnel conduct these challenging missions with great skill, compassion, and decency. In addition to the goodwill that emerges, these engagements also provide our own people with new skills, enhanced readiness, and experiences that can often help us with retention and recruitment. We are prepared and proud to continue providing joint multi-national engagements around the globe. These conflicts will be fundamentally political in nature, and require the application of all elements of national power. Success will be less a matter of imposing one’s will and more a function of shaping behavior – of friends, adversaries, and most importantly, the people in between.” – Secretary Robert

Gates, Landon Lecture, November 2007. The National Military Strategic Plan for the War on Terrorism lists humanitarian assistance as a key for establishing conditions that counter ideological support for terrorism.

 

http://www.tricare.mil/stakeholders/downlo...olders_2008.pdf

 

We need a domestic policy, on top our international policy........

 

P.S. Mettech didn't you say you were a Air Force vet, isn't your health care guaranteed by the Government?

Should everyone in the USA get the same type of health care? I say no.

[mettech]

We the people, of the United States in order to form a more perfect a Union, dedicated to the proposition that all people are created equal....

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=7hWOpH0d3...s&source=bl

 

Federalist also blended an old world recognition of status with an American appreciation of earned merit....

Federalist did not think that ordinary men (and women) had much to contribute to public life.....If Jeffersonian's could be labeled Democratic Republicans instead of just Republicans, Federalist could capture the glorious name Republican for themselves.

 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

 

Should everyone be paid the same?

Should everyone have the same amount of vacation time?

Should everyone live in the same type of house?

 

The reference you note is about law, not benefits. :shades:

[mettech]

Conducting Diplomacy through Health

 

When President Bush announced a new humanitarian effort in March 2007, he said “The United States military is a symbol of strength for this nation. They’re also a symbol of the great compassion of the American people and our desire to help those in our neighborhood who need help

 

http://www.tricare.mil/stakeholders/downlo...olders_2008.pdf

 

As we all know, the damage wrought by Hurricane Katrina and the levee breeches on Louisiana is staggering—over 1,400 lives lost and 900,000 people displaced, 18,750 businesses destroyed, over 200,000 homes damaged or destroyed, and over 220,000 jobs lost.4 The immediate impact of Katrina on the health system was the destruction of health care services in New Orleans as hospitals flooded and patients were evacuated.

Federal funding did not become available until the Congress authorized $2 billion for the Medicaid coverage and uncompensated care pools nearly six months after the storm through the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005.

There are no emergency provisions in Medicaid that provide flexibility to simplify the rules and extend Medicaid coverage with federal financing in a crisis situation such as this. After 9/11, Disaster Relief Medicaid in New York City provided a model for using Medicaid to provide immediate coverage by streamlining the process and the rules, but the federal response to Katrina followed a different path.

 

http://www.allhealth.org/BriefingMaterials...stimony-704.pdf

 

• In January 2007, a U.S. military medical team spent three weeks in Choculeta, Honduras, where they saved the lives of four newborns, performed 167 major surgeries, and conducted 500 medical exams at the regional Hospital del Sur.

• In Afghanistan’s Khost province, many U.S. troops at Forward Operating Base Salerno spend their off-duty days volunteering to help treat patients at the base’s burn clinic. In the region’s harsh climate, hundreds of people are burned each year from exploding heaters in their homes. The U.S. military treats patients at its on-base clinic and has trained Afghan medical specialists to set up a burn clinic outside the military base.

• In February 2007, a team of 20 Air Force medics provided healthcare for more than 6,500 people La Pita, El Sol, and Santa Teresa, Nicaragua, while an Army veterinary team vaccinated more than 3,300 animals for farmers in 10 communities. Follow-on medical teams worked in Nicaragua through mid-March.

• U.S. troops deployed to Bangladesh in the aftermath of a November 15, 2007 cyclone. The Task Force arrived off the Bangladeshi coast aboard the USS Kearsarge, along with the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, on November 23. The United States is one of 25 countries providing more than $4 billion in aid. Documents a dramatic increase in favorable public opinion by the people of Indonesia and Pakistan after these efforts. Our medical personnel conduct these challenging missions with great skill, compassion, and decency. In addition to the goodwill that emerges, these engagements also provide our own people with new skills, enhanced readiness, and experiences that can often help us with retention and recruitment. We are prepared and proud to continue providing joint multi-national engagements around the globe. These conflicts will be fundamentally political in nature, and require the application of all elements of national power. Success will be less a matter of imposing one’s will and more a function of shaping behavior – of friends, adversaries, and most importantly, the people in between.” – Secretary Robert

Gates, Landon Lecture, November 2007. The National Military Strategic Plan for the War on Terrorism lists humanitarian assistance as a key for establishing conditions that counter ideological support for terrorism.

 

http://www.tricare.mil/stakeholders/downlo...olders_2008.pdf

 

We need a domestic policy, on top our international policy........

 

P.S. Mettech didn't you say you were a Air Force vet, isn't your health care guaranteed by the Government?

Should everyone in the USA get the same type of health care? I say no.

 

 

Many people believe that the military is "guaranteed" pay and benefits. That is not true.

 

Congress can set the pay tables as they see fit. However, if the country was bankrupt, military members would still have to serve and work with no pay and benefits. The UCMJ is the only "contract" that is bidding.

 

 

The issue that you hint at refers to a State problem, not a Fed problem. Each State has its own military and a SEMA that is separated from the Fed military and FEMA. The only way that the Active Duty can be called to support a State emergency is if the Governor makes a request to the President. Occasionally, the President will activate the National Guard in the State under Title 10 orders so they can collect active duty pay instead of active duty State pay title 32.

 

I have been TDY on several humanitarian deployments. At everyone of the locations, hospitals where either primitive and/or hours or days away from the population we were sent to support.

 

I have been with teams that built schools, drilled water wells, helped the local government with issues :shades: and trained their military.

 

The idea is to spread good will and provide resources to people and governments that have no.... and I mean no.... opportunity.

 

Everyone here is the USA can get medical care when they need it or get a meal when they are hungry. The opportunity is here, in many countries, there is no opportunity.

[nvsked]

Many people believe that the military is "guaranteed" pay and benefits. That is not true.

 

Congress can set the pay tables as they see fit. However, if the country was bankrupt, military members would still have to serve and work with no pay and benefits. The UCMJ is the only "contract" that is bidding.

 

If and when the country goes broke, I for one will donate to our veterans medical expenses. Hey come to think of it, I already donate to the cause. Freedom isn't free! I genuinely appreciate all the sacrifices of our military men and women. Including my stepson and his 3 tours in Iraq. E6 101st Airborne, Ft. Campbell Ky.

 

It may have taken some time, I think Bush was at his ranch when Katrina hit, but the Governor did request Federal assistance.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=7hWOpH0d3...rce=bl#PPA84,M1

 

The discretion that Federalist had practiced when political discussions were confined to small upper-class circles buckled under the onslaught of boisterous public debate.

 

Should everyone be paid the same?

Should everyone have the same amount of vacation time?

Should everyone live in the same type of house?

 

No! But some basic life necessities, should be guaranteed. If my taxes support health technology, why should it be sold back to me in the name of corporate profit. I know I know capitalism at it's finest.

 

Agree to disagree time

[nvsked]

oops

Edited January 4, 2009 by nvsked

[mettech]

If and when the country goes broke, I for one will donate to our veterans medical expenses. Hey come to think of it, I already donate to the cause. Freedom isn't free! I genuinely appreciate all the sacrifices of our military men and women. Including my stepson and his 3 tours in Iraq. E6 101st Airborne, Ft. Campbell Ky.

 

It may have taken some time, I think Bush was at his ranch when Katrina hit, but the Governor did request Federal assistance.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=7hWOpH0d3...rce=bl#PPA84,M1

 

The discretion that Federalist had practiced when political discussions were confined to small upper-class circles buckled under the onslaught of boisterous public debate.

 

Should everyone be paid the same?

Should everyone have the same amount of vacation time?

Should everyone live in the same type of house?

 

No! But some basic life necessities, should be guaranteed. If my taxes support health technology, why should it be sold back to me in the name of corporate profit. I know I know capitalism at it's finest.

 

Agree to disagree time

 

Good post. I agree to the point that the immediate needy, the poor and the elderly does get goverment health care.