LSFan00 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Democratic Rep. Barney Frank this week called union concessions an "unfair assault on working men and women" — a not-accidental echo of Gettelfinger's comments.But the only real assault on "working men and women" here is the enormous cost this bailout will entail — a cost that all working taxpayers will have to bear and which some analysts think will ultimately total $75 billion to $125 billion. And the UAW hopes you'll pony it up and give them a free ride. U.S. automakers are in trouble for two reasons. One, they have massive legacy costs on their books to take care of retired workers, and two, their labor costs are much higher than their competition. Recent estimates put average UAW worker compensation at $55 an hour to $73 an hour, vs. $45 for the transplant automakers. So at a minimum, UAW workers are $10 an hour more expensive to hire than the 114,000 workers who toil at transplant auto plants situated mostly in the non-union South. Simply put, unless the UAW makes concessions, a bailout can't work. It will be a financial impossibility. The U.S. automakers' high labor costs, coupled with the 2,000-plus pages of work rules and union requirements under the most recent labor deal, will keep them from achieving the productivity they need to compete. The U.S. automakers are bleeding $6 billion a month. Better to pull the plug now and force them into bankruptcy, where radical restructuring — including cuts in union pay and benefits — wouldn't be optional but mandatory. That's the industry's only hope. It's, even for the UAW, a breathtaking attitude. Autos: The government gave the Big Three a $17.3 billion bailout based on the idea that both management and the unions would make concessions. Now the UAW says no thanks. Can we have our money back? Note to the other thread: here's why America doesn't give a damn about the D3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 So at a minimum, UAW workers are $10 an hour more expensive to hire than the 114,000 workers who toil at transplant auto plants situated mostly in the non-union South. That one sentence shows that the author doesn't know what they are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 It's, even for the UAW, a breathtaking attitude. Autos: The government gave the Big Three a $17.3 billion bailout based on the idea that both management and the unions would make concessions. Now the UAW says no thanks. Can we have our money back? Note to the other thread: here's why America doesn't give a damn about the D3. Seems to me that Gettelfinger has assurances (from the incoming Congress/Administration) that the stream of goverment largesse will continue unabated, he's signing his own death warrant, or he's bluffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Seems to me that Gettelfinger has assurances (from the incoming Congress/Administration) that the stream of goverment largesse will continue unabated, he's signing his own death warrant, or he's bluffing. My guess is that Gettlefinger is chest-thumping to impress the rank-and-file. Behind the scenes, I suspect reason will prevail, or at least I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 It's, even for the UAW, a breathtaking attitude. Autos: The government gave the Big Three a $17.3 billion bailout based on the idea that both management and the unions would make concessions. Now the UAW says no thanks. Can we have our money back? Note to the other thread: here's why America doesn't give a damn about the D3. Ah yes. Another mention of "Big Three" getting money. Lazy research gets you everywhere these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Lazy research gets you everywhere these days. He didn't do any research. All he saw was an article that agrees with his hatred of the UAW, and he couldn't post it fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 ......his hatred of the UAW........... Speaking of hatred. Anybody that drives a vehicle with a foreign nameplate should be shot for treason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Speaking of hatred. That's not hatred. It's a way to fix the country's problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 We might just help you brother, if you need a hand, cause we all need somebody to lean on. Bush could of helped the US by not starting a war that nobody could win, so now he's a genius and knows what the Auto industry needs. If the government really wants to help, they should devise a national health care plan that covers all Americans instead of playing to special interest. Right there we put billions back into the coffers of all US corporations and removed the so called legacy cost Labor cost account for 8% of the price of the vehicle. Using Ford's own motto of addressing things gone wrong (TGW) if I put labor cost on that x bar & R chart, labor cost would barely register. Better to address the top 5 hitters. Warranty, product development etc., hey come to think of it that's what Mulaly is trying to do. Our management team hasn't figured out yet, that the only thing that keeps their wages from being cut more is because of the UAW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) That's not hatred. It's a way to fix the country's problems. Either way, it's not right. You know it. Edited December 27, 2008 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Either way, it's not right. You know it. Sometimes you have to make a tough decision. Sometimes those decisions hurt. Take me for example. My solution will involve sacrifices. My mother-in-law drives a Honda, but I am willing to make the decision knowing our country will be better in the end. Sure, it will hurt in the near-term, but the sooner we eliminate the stupid people from our society, the better off we all will be. And if you can't see sarcasm in my posts, then you need to put me on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 And if you can't see sarcasm in my posts, then you need to put me on ignore. If your post was in jest, then I apologize for my misunderstanding. Perhaps the emoticon would help make things clearer in the future. I refuse to "ignore" anyone, because I choose to hear everyone's viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 If your post was in jest, then I apologize for my misunderstanding. 99% of my posts are. No apologies necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 To quote a great ad campaign (and tennis player): "Image is everything." Ford will continue to suffer irreparable harm from this PR disaster which is now going to run for another 2 years, likely, with all sides committed to avoiding the use of the bankruptcy system, favoring instead a long series of expensive, ineffectual taxpayer handouts, while the country goes through a deep recession, which will combine to greatly decrease public opinion of "the D3." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Sometimes you have to make a tough decision. Sometimes those decisions hurt. Take me for example. My solution will involve sacrifices. My mother-in-law drives a Honda, but I am willing to make the decision knowing our country will be better in the end. Sure, it will hurt in the near-term, but the sooner we eliminate the stupid people from our society, the better off we all will be. And if you can't see sarcasm in my posts, then you need to put me on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 99% of my posts are retarded. No apologies necessary or warranted. I won't argue with that! :shades: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I won't argue with that! :shades: :happy feet: STFU! You better hope I don't get forced to Saline. I might hook your workstation up to 480V. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 To quote a great ad campaign (and tennis player): "Image is everything." Ford will continue to suffer irreparable harm from this PR disaster which is now going to run for another 2 years, likely, with all sides committed to avoiding the use of the bankruptcy system, favoring instead a long series of expensive, ineffectual taxpayer handouts, while the country goes through a deep recession, which will combine to greatly decrease public opinion of "the D3." what a cunt you are. in every thread on here. as a UAW member, i'd rather see this ship sink, than know we bent over and "took" whatever they decided was fair and on par with "the wages of the world today". legacy costs are NOT burdens. they are fathers and grandfathers. i'd rather be part of a union that stood up and said NO-we wont be part of this race to the bottom, than cower and say yes-sir, please can i have a few crumbs-i'll do anything you tell me-as long as i can still toil for you. F&*K that- i'm a man whose willing to chuck it all knowing the rest of my life, i didnt budge on the issues i know are right. i'm not a bitch-like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) as a UAW member, i'd rather see this ship sink, than know we bent over and "took" whatever they decided was fair and on par with "the wages of the world today". Ever hear the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? I bet you see yourself as a UAW worker first and a Ford employee second (or third or fourth) - right? And you wonder why the public doesn't like you....... If you don't like how a company treats you - go find another one that treats you better. Or start your own company and YOU make the rules. You're not ENTITLED to anything. Edited December 27, 2008 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Or start your own company and YOU make the rules. You're not ENTITLED to anything. Yep, and then and only then will these people find out what they are really worth. 99 percent will find out that they are not worth what they are getting paid now and those 28 dollar an hour jobs are hard to find with all the benifits. The tax payers dont owe a damn thing to these people in my mind. Nor do they owe the execs either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 OK. I know this is skewed and not all work is in Detroit but... Housing in Detroit costs what? $10k? So if you want a really nice house its what? $50k, $100k? $28 an hour in the most depressed economy in the US? Not a bad deal. Like $150k a year in LA. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 what a cunt you are. in every thread on here. as a UAW member, i'd rather see this ship sink, than know we bent over and "took" whatever they decided was fair and on par with "the wages of the world today". legacy costs are NOT burdens. they are fathers and grandfathers. i'd rather be part of a union that stood up and said NO-we wont be part of this race to the bottom, than cower and say yes-sir, please can i have a few crumbs-i'll do anything you tell me-as long as i can still toil for you. F&*K that- i'm a man whose willing to chuck it all knowing the rest of my life, i didnt budge on the issues i know are right. i'm not a bitch-like you. I can see or hear where you're coming from, but where else would you go if the whole ship sank, as you state you want it to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante hicks Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 The vitriol against the middle class here is amazing. Divide and conquer, I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) The vitriol against the middle class here is amazing. Divide and conquer, I suppose... Amazing isn't it, Ford has managed their recovery well sought all they wanted from the UAW and yet GM and Chrysler are sinking all because of the UAW - that sure doesn't ring true. Edit, political vitriol removed Edited December 27, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) Bush could of helped the US by not starting a war that nobody could win, so now he's a genius and knows what the Auto industry needs. If the government really wants to help, they should devise a national health care plan that covers all Americans instead of playing to special interest. Bush has certainly been out of control with his spending habits since the day he set foot in the office, but I'm not sure how that is relevant. A national health care plan would reduce the burden on the automakers while squarely putting the burden back on the people who RECEIVE the health care right now. Why do people not understand this? Do you really think the UAW folks are going to be happy to have to PAY for their healthcare through a taxed, nationalized plan? I for one don't think so. People who keep screaming for nationalized health care seem to forget one thing: SOMEONE is paying for it ... and when you nationalize health care, that means YOU are, through taxes. I'm not sure who forgot that the government's money is OURS ... ? Edited December 27, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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