Pontiac's death - the GM backlash?

[Harley Lover]

Cars like the G8 and Soltace may end up selling badged as a Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac.

Didn't have time to read the whole thread, but for clarification, GM stated yesterday that none of the Pontiacs would be rebadged as other brands (G8), and also stated that the Solstice is dead.

[Project-Fairmont]

Any mystic that Pontiac had in the sixties and seventies was lost IMO with the intro of the '82 Trans Am and subsequent gaudy "Chevy's" that followed.

 

While the trendsetting Goats of the Sixties and Trans Am's of the Seventies were head and shoulders above, Pontiac became a tacked on (Tacky?) parody of its past, while offering NOTHING more substantive than a Chevy.

 

The unique and genuinely good G8 came to late to save Poncho!

[Pioneer]

I certainly would like one in my garage...

 

A lot of people are going to "want" them, but who will actually be willing to put the money down? Launching a $40k+ vehicle in a recession is probably not the smartest move Ford could be making right now.

[mettech]

And it is a sad ending to know that the last good Pointiac.... wasn't an American car.

 

(and the Ford's D3s are made in Mexico and the Fiesta design is from Europe).

 

 

Is the Mustang the only quality USA born and made car left?

 

Does all of the new hope for the American 3 come from outside of the USA?

[jpd80]

While vehicles in the $30K to $40K certainly add revenue, I think Ford really needs

to load up the $20K to $30K part of the showroom, that way sales staff have a wide

range of product that most people can afford given current lending circumstances.....

 

G8 is a nice car but the Falcon is better.

Edited April 28, 2009 by jpd80

[Pioneer]

Is the Mustang the only quality USA born and made car left?

 

New Taurus. Born in Chicago, Ill.

[Critic]

Does this mean, there will be no 2010-11 Trans-Am?

 

Now that REALLY REALLY SUKS.

[LSFan00]

New Taurus. Born in Chicago, Ill.

 

I didn't realize Volvo engineering was located in Chicago.

[Pioneer]

I didn't realize Volvo engineering was located in Chicago.

 

We adopted it and made it our own.

[Pioneer]

To me, the assembly point is the most important factor. That is where the majority of the jobs are in auto manufacturing.

[FordBuyer]

Not currently in the cards.

 

 

Well, if GM doesn't rebadge the high volume G6, then GM will probably be not much bigger than Ford in future and much smaller than Toyota in future. In fact, Honda will start moving up in there and then GM will get so small its survival won't matter much anymore. It sure won't be "Too big to fail" anymore.

[FordBuyer]

A lot of people are going to "want" them, but who will actually be willing to put the money down? Launching a $40k+ vehicle in a recession is probably not the smartest move Ford could be making right now.

 

Ford is also about 6 months away from launching the North American Fiesta. And it has already launched the "affordable" 2010 Fusion. Now I know this is bad news to the UAW rank and file, but they are North American affordable vehicles for the North American market and both should sell very well with top notch quality. Now it's up to the UAW members to match Mexican quality. One could also argue that the 2010 Taurus SE is very affordable, especially after incentives, and that is built by the UAW.

 

So what is the big deal about giving Lincoln another new vehicle to round out its lineup when you are offering very affordable vehicles in the Ford store? If Ford priced a new Lincoln at same price as Ford or way under the competition in general, then what's the point of having a luxury brand? You really need to see the big picture before posting.

[page2171]

I am one of those disgruntled Pontiac fans from GMI. To tell you the truth, I have been leaning towards getting a Ford product next anyway, but this pretty much cements the deal...see ya GM! I had been holding out hope that they would fix Pontiac and give it something besides the G8 and Solstice, but to no avail.

[Critic]

I am one of those disgruntled Pontiac fans from GMI. To tell you the truth, I have been leaning towards getting a Ford product next anyway, but this pretty much cements the deal...see ya GM! I had been holding out hope that they would fix Pontiac and give it something besides the G8 and Solstice, but to no avail.

 

 

THIS is exactly what Nostracritic predicted would happen.

 

And when your family says, "So, how do you like that Ford?" I wonder what your answer will be?

[FordBuyer]

At this point, I think bankruptcy is all but inevitable. I haven't seen Henderson do a thing to prevent it.

 

 

GM bondholders are the key. As of now, they will get about 10 cents on the dollar in latest offer, but if GM goes bankrupt, then Default Insurance kicks in and GM bondholders get about 80 cents on the dollar with AIG footing the bill once again. So where is the incentive for GM Bondholders to give in? Washington will have to underwrite the bond default insurance for GM bondholders to give in and save GM from bankruptcy.

[Critic]

GM bondholders are the key. As of now, they will get about 10 cents on the dollar in latest offer, but if GM goes bankrupt, then Default Insurance kicks in and GM bondholders get about 80 cents on the dollar with AIG footing the bill once again. So where is the incentive for GM Bondholders to give in? Washington will have to underwrite the bond default insurance for GM bondholders to give in and save GM from bankruptcy.

 

^^^^^^ WORD

I don't know about the 80% part, but it's a quandary wrapped in a tofu surrounded by a meringue.

 

Thus the gov. doesn't want to see a Chapter filed.

[Pioneer]

Now it's up to the UAW members to match Mexican quality.

 

Excuse me? Match Mexican quality?

 

What about the flawless launches of the F-150, Mustang, Taurus, 500, and Focus? Not to mention the Canadian launches of the Flex, Edge, and MkX.

 

Shove that Mexican quality tag-line up your . The Mexicans are now matching us.

 

 

 

EDIT: Sorry about the language, but this "all hail the mighty Mexicans" crap is really getting old.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Pioneer

[Critic]

Excuse me? Match Mexican quality?

 

What about the flawless launches of the F-150, Mustang, Taurus, 500, and Focus? Not to mention the Canadian launches of the Flex, Edge, and MkX.

 

Shove that Mexican quality tag-line up your . The Mexicans are now matching us.

 

 

 

EDIT: Sorry about the language, but this "all hail the mighty Mexicans" crap is really getting old.

 

Mettech just hates anything to do with an American worker no matter what they do.

 

THEY pay his salary so he can sit in his weather shack and type on a Ford forum with a government computer, The Ford workers support the Armed forces to a greater extent than any other company, but he can come here and slam them because he can't stand to see a person have a decent life. He can't see how he sits on his ass all day but slams someone who does physical labor. He's superior!

 

He's been shown for what he is, a TROLL pure and simple.

 

GO TO KOREA AND BUY A KIA Mettech. Your one less mooch on my tax dollars that way

[FordBuyer]

Excuse me? Match Mexican quality?

 

What about the flawless launches of the F-150, Mustang, Taurus, 500, and Focus? Not to mention the Canadian launches of the Flex, Edge, and MkX.

 

Shove that Mexican quality tag-line up your . The Mexicans are now matching us.

 

 

 

EDIT: Sorry about the language, but this "all hail the mighty Mexicans" crap is really getting old.

 

I must say that I have seen a few Fusions with misaligned trunk lids, but Mexican auto workers do make about $3/hour. But I did have a brand new UAW built Focus as a company car a few years ago and every door on it was badly misaligned including the front hood and rear deck lid. That is unacceptable, and UAW member make much more than average pay.

 

I will say this though..my UAW built Taurus has been a great vehicle and quality is above average. It was built at CAP, and it must have been good day. But there is no excuse for the poor fit on the brand new 2005 Focus that I had as company car.

 

I do look at the fit and finish on vehicles at the Dealers, and the Fusion seems to be the best of the bunch, and better than the Edge and other CAW vehicles also. If I were UAW member, I would be pissed that low cost Mexican workers are doing the best as Fusion has best quality rating of the bunch. Now maybe the UAW has caught up, as I hope so and want to see Ford build more new vehicles in Midwest.

[Pioneer]

low cost Mexican workers

 

 

Low cost Mexican workers, in a plant that received $3 Billion in upgrades.

[Critic]

I must say that I have seen a few Fusions with misaligned trunk lids, but Mexican auto workers do make about $3/hour. But I did have a brand new UAW built Focus as a company car a few years ago and every door on it was badly misaligned including the front hood and rear deck lid. That is unacceptable, and UAW member make much more than average pay.

 

I will say this though..my UAW built Taurus has been a great vehicle and quality is above average. It was built at CAP, and it must have been good day. But there is no excuse for the poor fit on the brand new 2005 Focus that I had as company car.

 

I do look at the fit and finish on vehicles at the Dealers, and the Fusion seems to be the best of the bunch, and better than the Edge and other CAW vehicles also. If I were UAW member, I would be pissed that low cost Mexican workers are doing the best as Fusion has best quality rating of the bunch. Now maybe the UAW has caught up, as I hope so and want to see Ford build more new vehicles in Midwest.

I seriously question what you say. You generalized. I bet there are people on here with the exact vehicle you describe that would refute your assertion. I have had a '97 and a '00 Explorer and can not find one 'fit and finish problem' I still have the '00 explorer also.

 

Now I have a '07 MKX too and believe me that garage queen has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and their isn't, I repeat isn't, ONE 'fit and finish problem' too it.

 

It's like a lot of random words thrown out, where I believe someone actually needs to back them up with a link. I say the same to you, back it up with a picture. You assert twice it was a company car. WHY? What does that mean? It sits and anyone can use it? It was used? You didn't give a crap how it was operated? It wasn't yours so you just think it has a problem? Or it really doesn't mean a thing? I can not believe your contention is plausible. Not to the degree you try to describe. Misaligned doors would be fixed at the first opportunity buy an owner if they were as you try to describe.

[twintornados]

...GM could have gone Mercury with Pontiac...

I believe that Government Motors is doing that with Buick....if the plan works, you will see Chevrolet Cadillac/Buick dealerships similar to Ford Lincoln/Mercury dealerships

 

I honestly do not see the need for GMC either if GM makes the dealership cuts they are talking about. Unless GMC is used for the medium/heavy truck lines and Chevrolet is used for light trucks.

[mettech]

Mettech just hates anything to do with an American worker no matter what they do.

 

THEY pay his salary so he can sit in his weather shack and type on a Ford forum with a government computer, The Ford workers support the Armed forces to a greater extent than any other company, but he can come here and slam them because he can't stand to see a person have a decent life. He can't see how he sits on his ass all day but slams someone who does physical labor. He's superior!

 

He's been shown for what he is, a TROLL pure and simple.

 

GO TO KOREA AND BUY A KIA Mettech. Your one less mooch on my tax dollars that way

 

What are you talking about?\\

 

I own three cars, a truck.

 

'05 PT Cruiser " Vert, a '03 Mercury Sable, '02 Pontiac Grand Prix, '05 F-350.

 

Get off of the KIA shit.

 

The points I raise and address are:

 

1. Pay and benefits should be based on a person's skill and responsibility. i.e. should a common labor task be compensated more than a nurse or school teacher?

2. More products should be made and designed in the USA. It appears that Toyota, Honda and others have been building plants here.

3. It is disappointing that some of the best products that Ford make come from Mexico and the new Fiesta was designed in Europe.

4. As a stock holder in GM and Ford, I want to see a profit soon. If overhead and capacity is too much, cut it.

5. Critic, stop making shit up and address the topics without attacking.

 

If you think I have it made... I invite you to join any branch of our military.

 

Grow up.

[Critic]

What are you talking about?\\

 

I own three cars, a truck.

 

'05 PT Cruiser " Vert, a '03 Mercury Sable, '02 Pontiac Grand Prix, '05 F-350.

 

Get off of the KIA shit.

 

The points I raise and address are:

 

1. Pay and benefits should be based on a person's skill and responsibility. i.e. should a common labor task be compensated more than a nurse or school teacher?

2. More products should be made and designed in the USA. It appears that Toyota, Honda and others have been building plants here.

3. It is disappointing that some of the best products that Ford make come from Mexico and the new Fiesta was designed in Europe.

4. As a stock holder in GM and Ford, I want to see a profit soon. If overhead and capacity is too much, cut it.

5. Critic, stop making shit up and address the topics without attacking.

 

If you think I have it made... I invite you to join any branch of our military.

 

Grow up.

 

I am grown my man, I and Pioneer and a lot more people than just you own- OWN FORD stock more than fucking you do,.. I've lost $225K in my Ford stock, Ford stock I've paid for with earning from my company.

 

I work my ass off to pay for you to sit here and slam my work. Your probably a fat ass over 20 year weather man sitting on his ass working MY government computer but YOU come here and slam MY work.

 

I'd love to say F U to your face. I can do your job I can do the basic and learn your work. Lets see you come here and do my job. I and just about everyone else knows what a 20+ military person does.. and especially one fighting terrorists in Indiana watch the sky for communist infiltrators

 

GET OFF MY GOV.COMPUTER and tell your boss you need some work to do.

[FordBuyer]

What are you talking about?\\

 

I own three cars, a truck.

 

'05 PT Cruiser " Vert, a '03 Mercury Sable, '02 Pontiac Grand Prix, '05 F-350.

 

Get off of the KIA shit.

 

The points I raise and address are:

 

1. Pay and benefits should be based on a person's skill and responsibility. i.e. should a common labor task be compensated more than a nurse or school teacher?

2. More products should be made and designed in the USA. It appears that Toyota, Honda and others have been building plants here.

3. It is disappointing that some of the best products that Ford make come from Mexico and the new Fiesta was designed in Europe.

4. As a stock holder in GM and Ford, I want to see a profit soon. If overhead and capacity is too much, cut it.

5. Critic, stop making shit up and address the topics without attacking.

 

If you think I have it made... I invite you to join any branch of our military.

 

Grow up.

 

The average working wage in MI is about $19/hour and that includes benefits. The UAW even with concessions is way above that. While I do want to see the UAW stay in business and prosper, I could personallly care less if they lose benefits and wages and still feel they are overpaid compared to the rest of society in general. Many have no clue to how the average lives. The UAW got too much in benefits and now is gradually giving most of it back one lash at a time. While I'm a loyal dometic buyer, many voted with their money and regrettably bought foreign. I never would, but those who did brought the Domestics to their knees and UAW sees nothing but givebacks with no end in sight.

 

As for the 2005 Focus I had, I got it with less than 10 miles on odometer and drove it for one year. While it was a nice vehicle and gave me no trouble, the misalignments on it were unacceptable if I had bought it. I was the only driver while I had it. My company car now is a 2004 Taurus with 102,000 miles on it and still going. My personal car is a 2002 Taurus SES Sport and love it. It's still like new and less than 35,000 miles as my company car is driven mostly. My next Ford will probably be either an Escape, Tauurus, Fusion, or maybe next generation Focus if I like it. Btw, I notice the fit and finish on 2009 Focus is much better than the 2005 I had. Ford has improved their fit and finish with plant improvements and more attention to quality.