armadamaster Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) An unsustainable arguement since it can never be proved but look at it this way, combined sales inside 5 years adds up to near 1.2 million vehicles on two platforms. That's still impressive for mixed large sedan/CUV vehicles especially when retail and fleet are covered. Sounds great on paper....til ya factor in D3 launch and overhaul costs. I still beleive there,s enough sales and diversity in the market to justify GRWD and a large FWD/AWD platform.Different strokes for different folks, so let's hope Ford gaps the other two enough to try some niche products. Large FWD car buyer will buy an Avalon before they will a bloated odd looking Taurus, period. For anyone wo cares, G8 suffered for being a Pontiac and lack of advertising, I doubt Ford would make the same mistake G8 sufffered from being a Pontiac, a lack of advertising, and the "who got Bingo?" naming scheme that was full of FAIL. with the Falcon/Territory as they complement the Mustang perfectly and can all be built down the one line...... Ahem: An unsustainable arguement since it can never be proved but look at it this way, put the damn pipe down Armada, you are talking out of your a$$ AGAIN.....refreshes are the way of business right now and will remain that way...ALL manufacturers pretty mush do the 2-3 year refresh..it keeps customers interest levels up...or is that just too hard for your lack of grey matter to comprehend....NO refresh could have saved the panthers so get over it...there is a REASON it is fleet only...there was NO retail demand...capice? IDIOT! I thought this shite had died w P71.... We're are not talking tweaking the headlamps and taillamps or going from nonpainted door handles to painted ones, the D3s got MAJOR drivetrain, front fascia, interior, and marketing (name change) in a VERY short period of time, which has proven to be a flop. Should we talk Ranger update FAIL instead? Edited May 31, 2009 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Ahem: Are you questionong my comments regarding Falcon/Territory/Mustang able to be built down the one line? I mean to say that Ford's fractal construction methods different vehicles can now be assembled in the one plant provided there's space available for off line part storage and assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Are you questionong my comments regarding Falcon/Territory/Mustang able to be built down the one line?I mean to say that Ford's fractal construction methods different vehicles can now be assembled in the one plant provided there's space available for off line part storage and assembly. I was pointing out your argument was no more sustainable than my previous one. Ford has had success selling fullsize RWD sedans in the past, to suddenly abandon them in favor of pursuing the elusive Avalon buyer borders on gross incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) I was pointing out your argument was no more sustainable than my previous one. Ford has had success selling fullsize RWD sedans in the past, to suddenly abandon them in favor of pursuing the elusive Avalon buyer borders on gross incompetence. 1) OK, I understand your point of view. 2) I believe there's room for both FWD and RWD because the present policy clearly shows that buyers still want both kinds of vehicles. While RWD may be reducing in numbers I believe there's real opportunity to foster niche performance and luxury versions on the Falcon Platform. Now while this wasn't possible during restructuring, I fully believe Ford will revisit a RWD platform for North America, if the Falcon is already available in Australia it should be used. Panther may go to its grave but that doesn't mean RWD has to finish. There's a lot of interesting stuff happening with the Aussie Falcon. Edited June 1, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sounds great on paper....til ya factor in D3 launch and overhaul costs. We're are not talking tweaking the headlamps and taillamps or going from nonpainted door handles to painted ones, the D3s got MAJOR drivetrain, front fascia, interior, and marketing (name change) in a VERY short period of time, which has proven to be a flop. You have to be kidding me....lets do some explaining here: 500 vs Taurus-The 500 came out in 2005 and was renamed the Taurus in 2008 as part of the refresh they did on it...so what they changed the Front end and rear end on the car...how much did that cost? How much was that factored into program costs already? How much was the car even advertised? I still didn't see much in the advertising done for it when it was renamed the Taurus. Look at every other Ford product besides the Ranger and Panther platforms...they've all been refreshed with in 2-4 years of being launched. Lets get back to the renaming thing, guess who wanted that done? Mullay...why? because he wanted it done....then the Next Gen Taurus (the 2010) was pushed up and even redesigned since both Fields and Mullay said the orginal redesign sucked. As for the D3 being failures....I can bet you a large sum of money that they will be far more profitiable then the Panthers ever will be. I'd assume the avg cost of the Panther (which are 95% fleet sales) is around 20K exculting the Town Car. With the Flex and then Explorer being added into the D3 mix with much higer avg transation sales, they'll be making money had over fist with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 You have to be kidding me....lets do some explaining here: 500 vs Taurus-The 500 came out in 2005 and was renamed the Taurus in 2008 as part of the refresh they did on it...so what they changed the Front end and rear end on the car...how much did that cost? How much was that factored into program costs already? How much was the car even advertised? I still didn't see much in the advertising done for it when it was renamed the Taurus. Look at every other Ford product besides the Ranger and Panther platforms...they've all been refreshed with in 2-4 years of being launched. Lets get back to the renaming thing, guess who wanted that done? Mullay...why? because he wanted it done....then the Next Gen Taurus (the 2010) was pushed up and even redesigned since both Fields and Mullay said the orginal redesign sucked. The '08 refresh was already planned.......I even have pictures of the 2008 Ford Five Hundred at NAIAS in '06: So aside from the cost of adding a new badge to the thing, I can't (from my "outsider" point of view) think of anything that was done that wasn't planned for the updated Five Hundred. The only ad I can recall featuring the '08-'09 Taurus was the Ford Proof ad (which I loved BTW), and in that you only saw it for a few seconds: see ~36 seconds in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCKRACER Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 http://www.leftlanenews.com/california-alr...eyond-2016.html How can one State (well technically 13 total) force the rest of the country to follow its "standards"? Maybe CARB will have be shut down to close the multi-billon dollar deficit that California has. I thought the current regs just released earlier this week was a compromise with CARB? "California, the land of fruits and nuts" Archie Bunker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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