Karfuno Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I have owned Ford's since my first car, a 66 Mustang. Since the early 90's I have found it hard to purchase a Ford from various dealers. They do need a lot of training on how to deal with trading other people's cars. I really would like to support Ford again and bring them back as America's best and largest auto manufacturer, but they have no idea how to do this. Let me give you a current example: I own 6 cars and buy a new one every year. I am interested in buying a new Taurus SHO. I want to trade my BMW 328xi which has 17k miles and free maintenance to 50k and a 100k warrantee. I have been to 3 Ford dealers. Their comments are: Dealer One: Can you sell the BMW by yourself, we are not really interested at any price. Dealer Two: Sure we will give you $15k on a trade. Other people are giving me $26k Dealer Three: Take it to this dealer or autioneer. Good luck Ford in making new sales! You should really learn how to trade in other manufacturers or you will be selling to a very small market segment. fyi I own a TBird, Lightning, and Mustang but I guess I cannot buy a new Ford unless I dispose of my trade by myself! The Wall Street Journal says used certified trades are very popular and dealers cannot get enough of them! Wonder why Ford dealers do not know this? Ford has a much bigger problem than manufacturing and closing marginal dealers is not going to solve problems like this. Too bad Alan Mulally does not know how bad his dealers really are. They better focus on them actually building a customer base rather than shrinking it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have owned Ford's since my first car, a 66 Mustang. Since the early 90's I have found it hard to purchase a Ford from various dealers. They do need a lot of training on how to deal with trading other people's cars. I really would like to support Ford again and bring them back as America's best and largest auto manufacturer, but they have no idea how to do this. Let me give you a current example: I own 6 cars and buy a new one every year. I am interested in buying a new Taurus SHO. I want to trade my BMW 328xi which has 17k miles and free maintenance to 50k and a 100k warrantee. I have been to 3 Ford dealers. Their comments are: Dealer One: Can you sell the BMW by yourself, we are not really interested at any price. Dealer Two: Sure we will give you $15k on a trade. Other people are giving me $26k Dealer Three: Take it to this dealer or autioneer. Good luck Ford in making new sales! You should really learn how to trade in other manufacturers or you will be selling to a very small market segment. fyi I own a TBird, Lightning, and Mustang but I guess I cannot buy a new Ford unless I dispose of my trade by myself! The Wall Street Journal says used certified trades are very popular and dealers cannot get enough of them! Wonder why Ford dealers do not know this? Ford has a much bigger problem than manufacturing and closing marginal dealers is not going to solve problems like this. Too bad Alan Mulally does not know how bad his dealers really are. They better focus on them actually building a customer base rather than shrinking it! this has nothing to do with Ford, fool. The dealer is independent and has to sell your car. How do youknow they haven't had problems in thenpast in selling BMWs? What is the local Toyota dealer offering? Trade in has nothing to do with Ford selling you an SHO. Cripes, for a guy that buys a new car every year, you'd think you would have figured this one out by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 this has nothing to do with Ford, fool. I don't see how calling someone names on their first post helps in any way. J150 is correct though the dealers are a franchise not a corporate store, from what I've heard all trade-ins are low balled especially with the glut of used vehicles on the market. You will get more money by selling the vehicle by yourself to a a private party. You can check Kelly Blue Book for comparison of retail, wholesale and trade in values http://www.kbb.com/ Good luck and enjoy your SHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Is your BMW 328Xi a 2007 or 2008? is it a 2 dr,4 dr,or wagon? A BMW is a trade in that most Ford dealers,don't trade for often. As a dealer,I will expect more high end import trades,especially on the SHO,and the Lincoln MKS and MKT...I'm personally watching the auctions online and observing the market on those vehicles....don't get discouraged and give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Geez I hate these posts. "Dealer X didn't blow sunshine up my ass so vehicle manufacturer Z sucks!" As J-150 said, the Ford Motor Company has no control over what a dealer offers you for your trade. Go back to the "other people" who offered you 26K and tell them to write you a check for 26K. If they do it you know they were not bluffing. If they don't, well there you go! If it's worth 26K then it shouldn't matter if you are trading it or if you just want them to buy it off you. The guy offering you big bucks may already have a buyer, the other guys may not want the headache of getting rid of it. Taking trades to the auctions usually sucks unless there is real demand for it. Lastly, market values are different in different areas. BTW, once had an older gentleman with an Aerostar he wanted to trade. No A/C, no power anything and a manual trans. First and last Aerostar I saw with a "hook". He was insulted by our trade offer. I just leveled with him. "Sir, we have to try to sell your trade. No young family wants a van with no A/C, no power windows, no cruise, and a manual trans. You told me you bought it new because it was cheap. We would have to find someone that thinks the same way and that could take awhile before that person shows up." After that he agreed with me and gave me a hand shake when he left. It's not always personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Geez I hate these posts. "Dealer X didn't blow sunshine up my ass so vehicle manufacturer Z sucks!" As J-150 said, the Ford Motor Company has no control over what a dealer offers you for your trade. Go back to the "other people" who offered you 26K and tell them to write you a check for 26K. If they do it you know they were not bluffing. If they don't, well there you go! If it's worth 26K then it shouldn't matter if you are trading it or if you just want them to buy it off you. The guy offering you big bucks may already have a buyer, the other guys may not want the headache of getting rid of it. Taking trades to the auctions usually sucks unless there is real demand for it. Lastly, market values are different in different areas. BTW, once had an older gentleman with an Aerostar he wanted to trade. No A/C, no power anything and a manual trans. First and last Aerostar I saw with a "hook". He was insulted by our trade offer. I just leveled with him. "Sir, we have to try to sell your trade. No young family wants a van with no A/C, no power windows, no cruise, and a manual trans. You told me you bought it new because it was cheap. We would have to find someone that thinks the same way and that could take awhile before that person shows up." After that he agreed with me and gave me a hand shake when he left. It's not always personal. You've made a number of good points here in trying to answer the original poster's message. I'll add a few of my own here for what it's worth. Markets vary greatly around the country regarding incomes, types of vehicles bought and a lot of other factors. Some Markets have a higher than average number of high-end imports absed on the Market's demographic... driver's age, employment, etc. It's common in more rural area to find a higher mix of pickups and other work type vehicles even though they can still be top-of-the-line Lariat's, etc. You'd expect resale and trade-in values for late model imports to be higher in Markets where they hold a bigger Market share and demand. At least in the Northeast, we're having a lot of trouble getting enough quality, pre-owned inventory this year. Many if not most of the trade-ins are turned in with well over 100,000 miles making them undesirable and/or unfit for retail sale based in condition, required repairs, warranty costs, etc. We have buyers attend the major auctions in several states on a weekly basis and finding a lot fewer vehicles being sold through the auctions, compared to recent years, and the auction prices are up thousands of dollars in many cases due to the short supply/demand situation. Our CT Dealership has less than half of the used vehicles that we usually stock. We're getting a very high percentage of conquest customers trading in non-Ford vehicles representing a wide variety of brands including a lot of imports. We'll take anything in trade... motorcycles, boats, you name it. As long as we can come to an agreement with the customer on a fair trade appraisal/allowance and we can resell it at a profit we'll make the deal. Sure, there's times when we might be looking at a potential trade-in knowing that it's not a vehicle that we'll turn over quickly but it's never stopped us from making the deal. We'll take the trade-in, recondition it, etc for retail display, advertise the vehicle and do whatever we can in the current Market to sell it at retail before sending it to the auction. In addition, we have wholesalers that come in regularly looking for vehicles that they can resell to other dealers including higher end used car lots so we look at all our options. Hope this helps put some of the discussion in perspective from the Dealer's viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The thing that immediately came to mind is - what's the problem with selling the car yourself? If you buy cars that often, why would you want to trade it in at wholesale value (or less) when you can do a little research find out what the market value is (retail and wholesale values are in YOUR area), then price it below retail and not leave a lot of money on the table (by trading it in)? Nowadays there are so many sources for research, it is quite different than it used to be. I used to get NADA values and then got "black book" prices from an insurance agent. The black book was what many insurance companies and banks used (do they still have such a thing? - I don't know as info is so readily available now I haven't inquired in several years) that gave more realistic values including loan values (which sometimes was a good selling point to a prospect needing financing to purchase) of every late model vehicle. Although it's been a few years, I have sold well over a dozen vehicles myself and always got significantly more than a trade-in value. Yep, it takes a little homework, and today you have to be more careful who you even show the car to, but it ain't that hard. If you want guidance, here a good how-to LINK Hell, the last car I sold was me mum's car when she gave up driving and I did the research and sold it to the first guy who looked at it for $500 less than what that car was selling for on the local retail used car lots. Detailed the car myself, purchased a CarFax, paid a respected local mechanic $75 to do an inspection, placed one local car ad ($10), made a few copies of car's history, one appointment - and wham - it was sold for cash (for a couple grand more than if I sold it to an auctioneer or CarMax - or the like). The key is screening the calls and make it available by appointment only. (You can even buy a counterfeit cash detector really cheap nowadays - if that is a concern). Even if you still owe money on it, most banks (that hold the loan) are willing to co-operate in the sale. Make sure you find out what your state's requirements are so that you are free of liability - the moment the new owner drives away in the car. Most people constantly complain about their DMV and local licensing people, but personally, I have always found that they are very helpful, in fact eager to help, and pleasant. Of course, if you are upside-down, then that's a different issue altogether and get ready to take a beating - with a big stick -- and don't blame it on a dealer who is in the business to make money on your trade-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I don't see how calling someone names on their first post helps in any way. J150 is correct though the dealers are a franchise not a corporate store, from what I've heard all trade-ins are low balled especially with the glut of used vehicles on the market. You will get more money by selling the vehicle by yourself to a a private party. You can check Kelly Blue Book for comparison of retail, wholesale and trade in values http://www.kbb.com/ Good luck and enjoy your SHO. it's an acceptable response to a dumbass bragging on how many cars he owns and how often he buys them. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's not dumb. Maybe he's just a bullshitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Geez I hate these posts. "Dealer X didn't blow sunshine up my ass so vehicle manufacturer Z sucks!" As J-150 said, the Ford Motor Company has no control over what a dealer offers you for your trade. Go back to the "other people" who offered you 26K and tell them to write you a check for 26K. If they do it you know they were not bluffing. If they don't, well there you go! If it's worth 26K then it shouldn't matter if you are trading it or if you just want them to buy it off you. The guy offering you big bucks may already have a buyer, the other guys may not want the headache of getting rid of it. Taking trades to the auctions usually sucks unless there is real demand for it. Lastly, market values are different in different areas. BTW, once had an older gentleman with an Aerostar he wanted to trade. No A/C, no power anything and a manual trans. First and last Aerostar I saw with a "hook". He was insulted by our trade offer. I just leveled with him. "Sir, we have to try to sell your trade. No young family wants a van with no A/C, no power windows, no cruise, and a manual trans. You told me you bought it new because it was cheap. We would have to find someone that thinks the same way and that could take awhile before that person shows up." After that he agreed with me and gave me a hand shake when he left. It's not always personal. hey, and please make not its POST NUMBER 1....hey nimrod...why would you be insulted at ACTAUL trade values of 15k if you had someone offer 26k....take the money and your BS and RUN FOREST RUN..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) it's an acceptable response to a dumbass bragging on how many cars he owns and how often he buys them. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's not dumb. Maybe he's just a bullshitter think you called it J. Rons just too nice.... Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 You've made a number of good points here in trying to answer the original poster's message. I'll add a few of my own here for what it's worth. Markets vary greatly around the country regarding incomes, types of vehicles bought and a lot of other factors. Some Markets have a higher than average number of high-end imports absed on the Market's demographic... driver's age, employment, etc. It's common in more rural area to find a higher mix of pickups and other work type vehicles even though they can still be top-of-the-line Lariat's, etc. You'd expect resale and trade-in values for late model imports to be higher in Markets where they hold a bigger Market share and demand. At least in the Northeast, we're having a lot of trouble getting enough quality, pre-owned inventory this year. Many if not most of the trade-ins are turned in with well over 100,000 miles making them undesirable and/or unfit for retail sale based in condition, required repairs, warranty costs, etc. We have buyers attend the major auctions in several states on a weekly basis and finding a lot fewer vehicles being sold through the auctions, compared to recent years, and the auction prices are up thousands of dollars in many cases due to the short supply/demand situation. Our CT Dealership has less than half of the used vehicles that we usually stock. We're getting a very high percentage of conquest customers trading in non-Ford vehicles representing a wide variety of brands including a lot of imports. We'll take anything in trade... motorcycles, boats, you name it. As long as we can come to an agreement with the customer on a fair trade appraisal/allowance and we can resell it at a profit we'll make the deal. Sure, there's times when we might be looking at a potential trade-in knowing that it's not a vehicle that we'll turn over quickly but it's never stopped us from making the deal. We'll take the trade-in, recondition it, etc for retail display, advertise the vehicle and do whatever we can in the current Market to sell it at retail before sending it to the auction. In addition, we have wholesalers that come in regularly looking for vehicles that they can resell to other dealers including higher end used car lots so we look at all our options. Hope this helps put some of the discussion in perspective from the Dealer's viewpoint. how bout BRUTAL honesty, cutting through the smog and gettin RIGHT to the point...your BELOVED German piece that you obviously hold in higher esteem than it deserves....is soft as putty on the resale market...truth can hurt sometimes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) this has nothing to do with Ford, fool. The dealer is independent and has to sell your car. How do youknow they haven't had problems in thenpast in selling BMWs? What is the local Toyota dealer offering? Trade in has nothing to do with Ford selling you an SHO. Cripes, for a guy that buys a new car every year, you'd think you would have figured this one out by now. Question: Something that Mr. T would say... Anyway.. I am in the process of trading our '05 PT Cruiser turbo convertible in for a '10 Fusion 2.5L SEL Smokestone/Light Stone, with 301A package, and Nav. Bob Bowen Ford will trade for invoice ($180.00 below X-Plan), pluse $2K rebates and give $7000.00 for our PT Cruiser. That is spot on to what Edmund's trade in says and is higher than KBB. This will be the first car I buy from Bob, but we have our F-350 serviced there all the time. Back to the point..... Find a better dealership. P.S. I'll give you $17 :shades: for the BMW if you bring it to me. Edited June 18, 2009 by mettech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 how bout BRUTAL honesty, cutting through the smog and gettin RIGHT to the point...your BELOVED German piece that you obviously hold in higher esteem than it deserves....is soft as putty on the resale market...truth can hurt sometimes..... I guess his BMW dealer neglected to tell him that part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Question: Something that Mr. T would say... you ain't gettin' me in no plane Hannibal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) I guess his BMW dealer neglected to tell him that part of it. we are always labelled as the bad guys....heres my retort...get an honest number from a BMW dealership...call them, tell them you have ALREADY bought a vehicle and want to unload your own car and need a firm BUY BID.....wow....BMW dealerships are now assholes as well....gets an honest number everytime, funny thing is, its usually close to what everyone else has been saying....barring the one thats highballing and playing games.... Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 we are always labelled as the bad guys....heres my retort...get an honest number from a BMW dealership...call them, tell them you have ALREADY bought a vehicle and want to unload your own car and need a firm BUY BID.....wow....BMW dealerships are now assholes as well....gets an honest number everytime, funny thing is, its usually close to what everyone else has been saying....barring the one thats highballing and playing games.... and maybe just maybe, they guy highballing is either: 1) not going to discount the new car as much 2) won't honor the quote given when it is time to sign the paperwork highball offers are not worth a damn until you have the cash in hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karfuno Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 this has nothing to do with Ford, fool. The dealer is independent and has to sell your car. How do youknow they haven't had problems in thenpast in selling BMWs? What is the local Toyota dealer offering? Trade in has nothing to do with Ford selling you an SHO. Cripes, for a guy that buys a new car every year, you'd think you would have figured this one out by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karfuno Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 this has nothing to do with Ford, fool. The dealer is independent and has to sell your car. How do youknow they haven't had problems in thenpast in selling BMWs? What is the local Toyota dealer offering? Trade in has nothing to do with Ford selling you an SHO. Cripes, for a guy that buys a new car every year, you'd think you would have figured this one out by now. Trade in has everything to do with purchasing a car from a dealer. It saves you state taxes which are now going to 7%, it gives the dealer an opportunity to have a AAA used car to sell which is in demand now in my market area which is the northeast and has a 100k warrantee. it also means that i may be back in to do other deals since he treated me fairly on the first deal. I passed this purchase and went with another local dealer who gave me the wholesale kbb value and credited me for the very low mileage, maintenance free to 50k and 100k warrantee. Not counting the $2600 he discounted the new $32k car, he gave me $26k for my $45k purchase price of my 2007 BMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karfuno Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Is your BMW 328Xi a 2007 or 2008? is it a 2 dr,4 dr,or wagon? A BMW is a trade in that most Ford dealers,don't trade for often. As a dealer,I will expect more high end import trades,especially on the SHO,and the Lincoln MKS and MKT...I'm personally watching the auctions online and observing the market on those vehicles....don't get discouraged and give up. Thx You are preparing yourself to make more deals than the average dealer, especially with people like me who want to trade back to Ford or Lincoln. I have even dealt with some dealers who have an agreement with some of their other marques who trade back and forth with each other . I know some dealers today who are thriving in this market by selling more used cars than new. Where is your dealership? Have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Guess what, grinder: If three independent dealers all told you you want too much for your trade-in, you are probibly the one being unreasonable. Do you think for one second that in todays economic situation three dealers are going to let you shop around at competitive stores without giving you their best number? These guys are competing against each other for the sale, it's not some elaborate scheme drawn up by Ford to steal your trade. For the record Kelley is the most useless guide on the market. Using it will only set you up for disappointment. It is not only high on your trade, but also on the car you're buying. It never ceases to amaze me when somebody pulls out a KBB sheet saying their trade is worth more, but won't even look at the fact that they're buying the new car for under Kelley every time. Don't get me wrong, I know you're looking for a good deal, but cryin' about how Ford needs to train their dealerships to bury themselves in your trade is a chickenshit move. Annnd... I bash you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Guess what, grinder: If three independent dealers all told you you want too much for your trade-in, you are probably the one being unreasonable. Do you think for one second that in todays economic situation three dealers are going to let you shop around at competitive stores without giving you their best number? These guys are competing against each other for the sale, it's not some elaborate scheme drawn up by Ford to steal your trade. For the record Kelley is the most useless guide on the market. Using it will only set you up for disappointment. It is not only high on your trade, but also on the car you're buying. It never ceases to amaze me when somebody pulls out a KBB sheet saying their trade is worth more, but won't even look at the fact that they're buying the new car for under Kelley every time. Don't get me wrong, I know you're looking for a good deal, but cryin' about how Ford needs to train their dealerships to bury themselves in your trade is a chickenshit move. Annnd... I bash you! Beg to differ.... after the deal I'll fax you the sale receipt. I have never paid $200.00 above invoice and never traded less than KBB.. and now Edmund's. Anyone that gets less than full trade and pays a few hundered above invoice pluse rebates to include dealership kick back is a fool and the dealership is a thief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Beg to differ.... after the deal I'll fax you the sale receipt. I have never paid $200.00 above invoice and never traded less than KBB.. and now Edmund's. Anyone that gets less than full trade and pays a few hundered above invoice pluse rebates to include dealership kick back is a fool and the dealership is a thief. being in the business for 23 odd years Mettech, no offense, but please outline the stated "kickback"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Beg to differ.... after the deal I'll fax you the sale receipt. I have never paid $200.00 above invoice and never traded less than KBB.. and now Edmund's. Anyone that gets less than full trade and pays a few hundered above invoice pluse rebates to include dealership kick back is a fool and the dealership is a thief. I'd like to know about that "kickback" also. If a dealership doesn't appraise vehicles using real time auction reports,I'll show you a dealership with an overvalued used vehicle inventory...not good business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) I'd like to know about that "kickback" also. If a dealership doesn't appraise vehicles using real time auction reports,I'll show you a dealership with an overvalued used vehicle inventory...not good business. BINGO!....funny, everyone is an expert in this business, even though they have probably never worked in a dealership let alone sold....and for all those that keep touting KBB, and Edmunds and NADA...next time you are trying to sell your used car please call them and see if THEY are buying..... Edited June 19, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 being in the business for 23 odd years Mettech, no offense, but please outline the stated "kickback"..... I do really want to know though, because i get paid on the bottom line.....I may have been being underpaid all this time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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