2b2 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 ^ No 'ire' from me but I'd like to point out that (in my preferred alternate universe) that's the Lincoln E386 - built off the MKT's wheelbase... ...'we' call it the MKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 that's the Lincoln E386 - built off the MKT's wheelbase......'we' call it the MKE MkT wheel base, but in sedan form...that would be one interesting car for the "near luxury" set...I honestly think there would be a market for that in the livery/taxi fleets as well as selling 2-3K a month retail....especially in South Florida and like regions. Lincoln is headed to the stratosphere in market terms, but Mercury can attract the livery/taxi market with Marquis and sell it well without hobbling Taurus or MKS sales. Just for numbers sake, I looked up the specs as follows: Taurus (2010) : overall length - 202.9 wheelbase - 112.9 Grand Marquis: overall length - 212 wheelbase - 114.6 Town Car: overall length - 215 wheelbase - 117.7 Town Car L: overall length - 221.4 wheelbase - 123.7 MKT: overall length - 207.6 wheelbase - 117.9 A D3 based Marquis can consolidate current Grand Marquis, Town Car, and Town Car L sales once Panther is put out to pasture. D3 has shown the (pardon the pun) flexibility and can be summoned up for production in St. Thomas Assembly as Panther winds down. Having Mercury in the fleet market would be a boon to Ford as a way to differentiate both marques (Ford and Lincoln) from a fleet stigma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The problem you run into with the stretched D3 scenario is, around the same time the Panthers are slated to die off, development will likely be underway on D3's replacement also. Do you invest more in D3 and do a long-wheelbase anything on it, or do you wait for the new "CD4" chassis which is likely going to be flexible enough to spawn everything from the Fusion to a vehicle at least the size of Taurus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 ^ imho Here's where a truly Flexible factory proves it's worth -- assuming Ford really has that^ in like/say Oakville? Since they can build D3.2/4 and the CD# for the MKX&Edge no problem if all that's left on D3.2/4/5/6 are the biggest Cuv's & the Lincoln neo-behemoth... ...at least until downsizing makes the Falcon the World's Largest Ford :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The problem you run into with the stretched D3 scenario is, around the same time the Panthers are slated to die off, development will likely be underway on D3's replacement also. Do you invest more in D3 and do a long-wheelbase anything on it, or do you wait for the new "CD4" chassis which is likely going to be flexible enough to spawn everything from the Fusion to a vehicle at least the size of Taurus? I understand what you are saying, but....build a D3 Marquis sedan on the MKT chassis, and I think you will have a hit in the livery/taxi market as well as the "near luxury" set....MKT is already in production...just need a sedan top-hat for the existing chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) ^ :yup: & it just occurred to me the MKX is the shorter CD3, the MKZ is longer ovl the MKS is the shorter D3.2, the MKT is longer ovl and the vowel sounds are correspondingly short & long 'eh' for X & S, 'eee' for Z & T (& maybe E too) and if Lincoln calls their KuGa the MKG like I propose it could well be a slightly long version of Kuga & since I really do think that someone at Ford is very into word games, this might not beee a co-incidence reee- Edited July 31, 2009 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I understand what you are saying, but....build a D3 Marquis sedan on the MKT chassis, and I think you will have a hit in the livery/taxi market as well as the "near luxury" set....MKT is already in production...just need a sedan top-hat for the existing chassis. Perhaps. After some seat time in an MKS this week though, I really don't see a need for anything larger than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Perhaps. After some seat time in an MKS this week though, I really don't see a need for anything larger than that. Agreed, but MKS and a potential D3 based Marquis would appeal to vastly different demographics. Edited July 31, 2009 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Agreed, but MKS and a potential D3 based Marquis would appeal to vastly different demographics. I don't really see how. They would both be large American luxury sedans. They would both likely have similar powertrains and driving characteristics as well. In my opinion, if Lincoln is going to step up above the MKS in size with another sedan, it had better be RWD and be a true contender with the top tier luxury cars from their competitors like the S-Class and LS. Until then, they should probably just sit on their hands in that market segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 besides going against the "Small Merc Theorem" (which I claim IS temporary) it wouldn't make sense to ME if Merc had a sedan larger than the biggest real/current Lincoln I still believe we're stuck with the "SMT" until Fomoco is ready to build the already designed GRwdP (GLMR) cars after that starts I could see you Marquis -OR- my Marquis (the MKS itself lightly restyled; and its big E386 brother as the Lincoln flagship) as a very appropriate Merc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I hear what you both are saying....all I am saying is that my Marquis idea would answer the call of livery/fleet/taxi markets without wrecking the "image" of Lincoln. Seriously a Mercury as a Taxi has the right mix of upscale-ness without demeaning the luxury exclusiveness of MKS. Remember, Mercury has always been pitched as a "poor mans Lincoln"...has most of the Lincoln goodies...but not everything and honestly...that is right where most livery buyers are looking...affordable luxury. No need to bastardize a Lincoln for fleet sales, when Mercury will fit the roll nicely without cobbling into Ford sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) OK, guess I'm finally getting your message, twintornados but went at that a different way... ...without the "SMT": I recommended giving Mercury ALL the Panthers (& NO TAXI's unless they want to pay full price**) so that provided a shortwheelbase Marquis for retail and pursuit (copcars are cool) & long wheelbaseS (plural) as Grand Marquises for retail & Limos (minimal fleet discounts) Would really like to let the Panthers finish their service with dignity AND with new drivetrains & radical overhang-ectomies! I'm more intested in good retail versions that don't LOSE money & LEO vehicles out of a sense of obligation & gratitude than any "for hire" operations' needs regardless of which platform is used for these roles ** but YELLOW is not an available color for MY Marquises Edited August 1, 2009 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 OK, guess I'm finally getting your message, twintornadosbut went at that a different way... ...without the "SMT": I recommended giving Mercury ALL the Panthers (& NO TAXI's unless they want to pay full price**) so that provided a shortwheelbase Marquis for retail and pursuit (copcars are cool) & long wheelbaseS (plural) as Grand Marquises for retail & Limos (minimal fleet discounts) Would really like to let the Panthers finish their service with dignity AND with new drivetrains & radical overhang-ectomies! I'm more intested in good retail versions that don't LOSE money & LEO vehicles out of a sense of obligation & gratitude than any "for hire" operations' needs regardless of which platform is used for these roles ** but YELLOW is not an available color for MY Marquises I saw this message thread and read a number of the posts related to the Cash-for-Clunkers program and couldn't help but be amused as the Crown Victoria model has been restricted to fleet only sales for a number of years now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 A lot of panther fans buy their cars second hand. Unless you're trading a Panther in on cars like Focus or Fusion hybrid, you don't get the $4,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Cal Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I suppose you could try to finagle a CVPI from a dealership, which might not be too difficult. Get one in the color you prefer (black for me) with the 3.55 gears and use that as the base for your very own hi perf CV. Replace the steel wheels with alloys, install a console, add a cat-back exhaust system, and affix the badges of your choice (Sport, 4.6, GT, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkonoff Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Concerning the fuel economy issue; I've got a 2002 Mercury Grand Marquis with about 56,000 miles. I recently took a trip from outside of Chicago to southern Michigan. Upon crossing the Illinois/Indiana border, I reset the fuel economy reading while cruising along at 68 mph with the cruise control on. By the time I got to the Indiana/Michigan border, the mpg average leveled off at 28.6, which was about 108 miles of travel. Return trip home with cruise control set at 72, the average was 26.4. A few years back, I traveled from Chicago, Illinois to Waukesha, Wisconsin and got 27.2 door to door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Unless you spend all your time on a stright road, the figures don't mean much. In city use, they get about 15mph. That's where those units spend most of their time. That's why they are being replaced with more efficent units. If you intend on getting a CVPI from a dealer, the only acceptable one is a unit that has the Appearence package. Unless the dealer holds a state contract, the won't have any units in stock. A state contract dealer most likely will not sell to anyone not certified for a fleet purchase. Our dealer would not and they were one of the biggest in the northeast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Cal Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 In my experience some dealerships do stock a few. Often, smaller police departments with as few as a couple cars or as many as a few dozen will maintain only the number of cars their municipality allows them to have; no extras. When one is totaled in an accident (not too uncommon), the department tries to replace it rather quickly because all of the others are in use, being serviced, or being repaired. So the purchaser will conduct a search of dealerships to see who has some in stock. The thing is, Ford doesn't build them on demand. Ford builds them during a set period, usually a a few weeks or so in the model year, and then the cars are delivered to the municipalities or regional dealerships. I've been tempted to do just what I recommended earlier: Buy a new CVPI with 3.55 gears, Replace the steel wheels with 17" Ford alloys, Bolt on a pair of Mustang mufflers and pipes, Add a K&N filter, and Install a floor console between the front seats. Fast, safe, good handling, nicely equipped, very reliable, roomy, reasonably fuel efficient. The best family/luxury/sports sedan since the 94-96 Impala SS and the 03-04 Mercury Marauder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Advertising for the Panthers dried up looooong before the D3's were launched. The only Panther ad I recall seeing anytime in the past 15 years was briefly during the launch of the Marauder. And that ad campaign disappeared as quickly as it appeared. We're not going down this road of "ifs" again. "If only they gave it all new sheet metal." "If only they gave it new powertrains. "If only they advertised them." "If only they came stuffed with $25,000 in small bills in the glovebox." It didn't happen. So there's no sense debating it. For once, I am in total agreement. There is no reason to debate that. Ford dropped the ball and the Panthers have suffered for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 For once, I am in total agreement. There is no reason to debate that. Ford dropped the ball and the Panthers have suffered for it. Not so much dropped, but rather threw it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Ford has been throwing customers away for decades. Look at their market share in 1988 vs. 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Ford has been throwing customers away for decades. Look at their market share in 1988 vs. 2008. Yeah, Ford willingly surrendered all of those. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc had nothing to do with it. If only Ford had just updated the Crown Victoria more often! They'd still control 30% of the market, right? :rolleyes: Edited August 18, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Yeah, Ford willingly surrendered all of those. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc had nothing to do with it. If only Ford had just updated the Crown Victoria more often! They'd still control 30% of the market, right? :rolleyes: RIGHT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yeah, Ford willingly surrendered all of those. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc had nothing to do with it. If only Ford had just updated the Crown Victoria more often! They'd still control 30% of the market, right? :rolleyes: No, but if Ford had not let rot products like the Ranger, the Panthers, and the original Taurus, I'd argue they'd be alot better off than they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 No, but if Ford had not let rot products like the Ranger, the Panthers, and the original Taurus, I'd argue they'd be alot better off than they are now. Probably. But oh wait, the Taurus is FWD! Are you admitting that it might actually have been a worthwhile vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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