End of the Line in 2011?

[stapelec]

Do they even want to answer it? Without the retail demand to subsidize the manufacturing investment it may not be worth it. And Ford certainly can't afford to be throwing money into iffy investments right now.

 

 

I wouldn't call it "iffy". Ford controls 75% of the police and taxi market with the CV, do they really want to risk giving that up. IMO it's more risky to try to get the police to accept the new Taurus as a replacement vehicle, they've made it quite clear they prefer a RWD car.

[akirby]

I wouldn't call it "iffy". Ford controls 75% of the police and taxi market with the CV, do they really want to risk giving that up. IMO it's more risky to try to get the police to accept the new Taurus as a replacement vehicle, they've made it quite clear they prefer a RWD car.

 

Iffy refers to the investment and potential ROI. There is clearly a market, but it's a relatively small market. And it's not clear that there is a huge profit margin on each vehicle either. It won't be cheap to bring a new RWD vehicle like this to market. It would have to be imported or be built in a retooled American factory and the relatively low volume would make it tougher to recover those fixed costs.

 

And even if it did have a positive ROI - is it enough for Ford to divert money from other programs or is it better for the long run to put that money into a new Explorer, Fiesta, Mustang and F150 engines, etc. etc.?

 

Besides - it's not like Ford can't come back in 3-4 years with the right vehicle and regain any lost market share if they have the right vehicle. And if they don't have the right vehicle then they don't need to be in the market anyway.

[akirby]

And I would also surmise that your place of employment might be tainting your opinion just a bit.......

[rscalzo]

And it's not clear that there is a huge profit margin on each vehicle either.

 

There isn't. why do you think no one wants into the market in any big way. A CVPI is going out the door at 20K to the departments. how much profit do you think is going to be left in that number? Once a department switches over, they aren't going to bounce back and be required to buy new equipment to fit the new body style. Way too expensive in today's economic time.

 

As far as the market share, the current market share in NJ is Ford at 52%, Dodge at 26% and Chev. at 22%. As the manufacturing is at the cutoff point, I see the Dodge share going way up in the next year or two. Those at 2007 numbers.

Edited October 8, 2009 by rscalzo

[stapelec]

And I would also surmise that your place of employment might be tainting your opinion just a bit.......

 

 

There's no question that I'm biased. We all remain hopeful. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

[twintornados]

There's no question that I'm biased. We all remain hopeful. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

Of course you are biased ....you are supposed to be.....we all know that Panther is slated for termination, what needs to be done is simple, find new product for STAP so that you can continue to be biased.

 

I think that GRWD should be looked at again and brought to STAP, then move Mustang production to STAP from Flat Rock, move MKZ production from Hermosillo since Flat Rock already builds Mazda 6 and that would free up room at Hermosillo to flex produce other lines along with Fusion and Milan (EcoSport sized CUV?)

 

STAP would then produce flex lines based on GRWD including Panthers' replacement, Mustang, possibly a Mercury Cougar and MKR variant and possibly an SUV type vehicle (Explorer America?) all based on GRWD and all produced at STAP.

[rscalzo]

They need a competitor to the new GM addition. The front wheel drive will never be accepted. Too many bad starts in the past with those versions. The CV PI was a great product whose time has come and gone. The plant has proved it can make a superior product. Lightning can strike twice.

[stapelec]

Of course you are biased ....you are supposed to be.....we all know that Panther is slated for termination, what needs to be done is simple, find new product for STAP so that you can continue to be biased.

 

I think that GRWD should be looked at again and brought to STAP, then move Mustang production to STAP from Flat Rock, move MKZ production from Hermosillo since Flat Rock already builds Mazda 6 and that would free up room at Hermosillo to flex produce other lines along with Fusion and Milan (EcoSport sized CUV?)

 

STAP would then produce flex lines based on GRWD including Panthers' replacement, Mustang, possibly a Mercury Cougar and MKR variant and possibly an SUV type vehicle (Explorer America?) all based on GRWD and all produced at STAP.

 

 

Thanks for the vote of confedience, it's funny you mentioned some of those things, those are rumours that have been floating around our plant for awhile. It's amazing we're still able to build quality vehicles with automation we have have, 20 year old robots just don't cut it anymore.

[twintornados]

Thanks for the vote of confedience, it's funny you mentioned some of those things, those are rumours that have been floating around our plant for awhile. It's amazing we're still able to build quality vehicles with automation we have have, 20 year old robots just don't cut it anymore.

Quality owes more to a skilled work force than it does to the machines the workforce operates...keep up the good work at STAP....it will pay dividends in the end with more product.

[akirby]

They need a competitor to the new GM addition.

 

Why?

[crownvicsparky]

it would appear that the bean counters at GM seem to think there is a profit to be made. Considering GM is in a financial position where they have little money to invest and need to make quick profits... one would think GM predicts a market in the police business and Ford needs to make a car that they want not try to put them in one that Ford wants. When we had the big meeting at STAP back in 2006 about going to one shift I remember the Corp rep saying Ford was going to stop pushing cars onto people and try to lure customers to new appealing products. One on hand they have done just that... but they can't seem to kick the old habit of pushing cars. I love the new Taurus. I test drove a SHO. Sweet ride, but I was trying to imagine it as a Police car and it doesn't appear to have the room I would think makes a good Police Car. I think they need 2 categories for Police... heavy duty usage and light duty usage.. a Crown Vic replacement is needed if they want to keep their strangle hold on the Market. I was amazed to read the previous comment about moving the Mustang to STAP with GRWD. I've been thinking the same thing but didn't want to upset anyone in Flatrock.

[twintornados]

...I was amazed to read the previous comment about moving the Mustang to STAP with GRWD. I've been thinking the same thing but didn't want to upset anyone in Flatrock.

It makes sense because, currently, Flatrock produces both the Mazda 6 as well as Mustang....two vastly different cars. By moving Mustang to STAP, it would make room for MKZ which shares more with Mazda 6 and create room at Hermosillo for a CUV of EcoSport dimensions. Then STAP can be "flex'ed" to produce GRWD for a host of products from Ford that need to be rear drive, as follows;

 

Mustang

 

Crown Victoria replacement

 

Grand Marquis replacement

 

Town Car replacement

 

Future Mercury Cougar and Lincoln MKR roadsters

 

Possibly an Explorer sized SUV (New uni-body Expedition??)

 

All manufactured at STAP so that the cost sharing can be best exploited for maximizing profits on GRWD. Now, it is up to the CAW to ensure that Ford sees the value of STAP and her CAW workforce as the best in term of efficiency and productivity.

[akirby]

it would appear that the bean counters at GM seem to think there is a profit to be made.

 

And they have such a great track record the last few years with product decisions.........

[T'Cal]

Why?

 

Because this is America! Competition improves the breed. The Panthers are old, old, old. The new (for us) Caprice is considerably more contemporary and will likely be very successful if it's priced right. Ford has made some great economic decisions lately that has prevented it from declaring bankruptcy like GM and Chrysler. They have hit the market in key areas with great vehicles: F150, Taurus, Fusion, Fiesta. My guess is that the Taurus will be converted to a Police Interceptor at least as a stop gap measure until a new RWD platform is produced for Lincoln, Ford, and Ford of Australia. I do like the idea that someone else hear came up with in which Ford uses the last Taurus model (06-09?) as the PI, especially if AWD is at least optional if not standard. By calling it Interceptor, it prevents the all new Taurus from being cheapened by a fleet model. Lose the chrome bar grille and slap on a flat black mesh one and a set of black stamped steel wheels and you've got the beginnings of the right look.

[jpd80]

There's always the Falcon's big brother, the Fairlane.

It's only another $150 million to develop and $20 million to federalize.

That's cheaper than a Panther upgrade by a long way........

[2b2]

There's always the Falcon's big brother, the Fairlane.

It's only another $150 million to develop and $20 million to federalize.

That's cheaper than a Panther upgrade by a long way........

_____U.S.______AU______Global/ROTW_

Mustang/HRL - Mustang/? - Mustang/HRL_

Cougar___ -_ Falcon _- ___?______

Tbird/Continental - Fairlane/? - __-?___________

:D

Edited November 6, 2009 by 2b2

[96towncarcartier]

The new Police Interceptor WILL be rear wheel drive...so the Taurus platform is going to be reworked quite a bit to accomplish this. Mark Fields has said that the new car will beat the competition and offer more room, more HP, and better gas mileage than the CV.

 

To me, they can make a police only car and make a profit. It's simple really: By making a car that doesn't have to share parts or come in "plush" versions, it streamlines assembly, since they don't have to switch components constantly through the assembly line... 'this one's a GS, oh, this is a PI, ooops, that one is supposed to be LS' etc...

 

One line with one product, keeps it simple...keeps it cheaper. Plus, less major redesigns that are forced on the car by a civilian car market. My guess is GM figured this out and Ford planned on it a long time ago when CV's fate was determined by the CAFE 2012 standards...

[twintornados]

Sheer speculation on my part, but with Ford claiming that a new Police Interceptor model will be built on a platform not currently being used in the NA market place leads me to believe that it will use some underpinnings from the Transit full size. That and a planned F100 unibody chassis would spread development costs over three lines as opposed to one purpose built model thus enhancing profit potential at a lower unit price and annual rate of production. Full size Transit is not a traditional body on frame vehicle and is more unibody than anything else. If Ford does this right, it would also likely be a candidate for taxi/livery markets as well. Transit is being eyed for hybrid applications, so it would be logical that any proposed F100 and/or Police Interceptor and taxi units benefit from that type of development as well...

 

But, at this point, I am only speculating....