silvrsvt Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/...ches/index.html The car itself was a hit with buyers. In fact, Genesis owners liked their cars better than Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes-Benz owners liked theirs, according to J.D. Power customer surveys. Also, the car's intial quality was top-notch At the same time, despite having zero experience in the U.S. luxury market, Hyundai correctly gauged demand and got pricing and production right. Cars weren't left sitting on dealer lots requiring discounts to sell. Contrast that with Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln MKS. The MKS launch wasn't a disaster for Ford, but it scored just below average, according to J.D. Power. Initial Quality for the MKS was much worse then for the Genesis and owners weren't quite as pleased with it, overall. Ford also priced the MKS too high, according to J.D. Power. kind of a stupid article...IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Aren't the MKS and Genesis both selling about the same as one another? And well, frankly, MKS EcoBoost > Genesis V8. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Pete D. had a pretty snide (and accurate, IMO) assessment about this new survey. Basically the manufacturer ought to be able to do a much better job evaluating launch success than some outside source with limited access to data. --- BTW, I'm about as tired of almost EVERY Ford article containing this little bit of boilerplate: 'Ford, the only domestic auto maker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection....' or this one: 'Ford, which has avoided seeking support from the federal government....' It is, after its fashion, just as stupid and brainless as the previous, "Ford, which has struggled to turn a profit in recent years..." Edited July 23, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Aren't the MKS and Genesis both selling about the same as one another? Genesis sales were about 35% greater than the MKS' in June 2009 and 18% greater YTD for the period ending in June June 2009 sales: MKS: 1,365 Genesis: 1,838 2009 YTD sales (to end of June 2009) MKS: 8,461 Genesis: 9,938 And well, frankly, MKS EcoBoost > Genesis V8. :P Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Having attended launch events for both the MKS and Genesis in 2008 (admittedly, these were normally-aspirated V6 models for both cars), I came to precisely the same conclusion as the J.D. Power study described in the article: MKS was overpriced and not very satisfying; Genesis the opposite. I acknowledge that the EcoBoost configuration rectifies my chief complaint about the MKS (namely, the coarse and unresponsive powertrain), but other design issues remain. Basically the manufacturer ought to be able to do a much better job evaluating launch success than some outside source with limited access to data. I respect what you're saying, but it just seems to me some external validation is valuable. And I didn't notice any major discrepancies between J.D. Power's results here and the various automakers' own press releases and with reviews in auto magazines, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Genesis sales were about 35% greater than the MKS' in June 2009 and 18% greater YTD for the period ending in JuneJune 2009 sales: MKS: 1,365 Genesis: 1,838 2009 YTD sales (to end of June 2009) MKS: 8,461 Genesis: 9,938 Percentages sound so impressive when you are talking about small numbers. Reality is, they are both selling at low volume. Nothing more to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) it just seems to me some external validation is valuable JD Power already sells detailed IQS data to mfrs. What the launch metric is supposed to add is data on inventory levels, transaction prices, incentives, days to turn, selling rates, etc. All of which JD Power couldn't possibly know better than the manufacturer itself (okay, maybe Chrysler would have worse information than JDP) Edited July 23, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 The Genesis and MKS may sell about the same, but I bet Ford makes more money on the MKS (and that's what really counts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Anyone have the metrics they use to decide if a car is too expensive or not? I wonder since if people are paying say nearly 5K less then MKS with a Genesis are they more willing to look the other way when it comes to problems? I was checking out TrueDelta's pricing between the two and the price difference is pretty pronounced between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Anyone have the metrics they use to decide if a car is too expensive or not? I wonder since if people are paying say nearly 5K less then MKS with a Genesis are they more willing to look the other way when it comes to problems? I was checking out TrueDelta's pricing between the two and the price difference is pretty pronounced between the two. Good point; subjective judgments will always be involved in answering that question, and certainly this will vary from individual to individual. For metrics, I thought these tools may be helpful in determining if a car is too expensive: Strategic Vision's Total Value Index Vincentric's Value Ratings Edmunds True Cost to Own Intellichoice Value Ratings along with market pricing that can be obtained from Edmunds, KBB, TrueDelta, Consumer Reports, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 BTW, I'm about as tired of almost EVERY Ford article containing this little bit of boilerplate: 'Ford, the only domestic auto maker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection....' or this one: 'Ford, which has avoided seeking support from the federal government....' It is, after its fashion, just as stupid and brainless as the previous, "Ford, which has struggled to turn a profit in recent years..." I think most news articles seek to limit themselves to introducing 1 or fewer new ideas each. The more conventional wisdom you can stuff in an article, the more likely the reader won't recoil against whatever new idea you're hiding in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 F350 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 BTW, I'm about as tired of almost EVERY Ford article containing this little bit of boilerplate: 'Ford, the only domestic auto maker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection....' or this one: 'Ford, which has avoided seeking support from the federal government....' It is, after its fashion, just as stupid and brainless as the previous, "Ford, which has struggled to turn a profit in recent years..." But they had to hit a certain number of words to with the article to get paid. (used to be column inches) So what other banal explanatory filler could they put in to pad the total length? The Genesis and MKS may sell about the same, but I bet Ford makes more money on the MKS (and that's what really counts). Does Hyundai have any plants here? If not, then doubtful - what is the prevailing South Korean wage rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 Does Hyundai have any plants here? If not, then doubtful - what is the prevailing South Korean wage rate? Lets say for shits and giggles that the Genesis costs 15K to make and the MKS costs 18K make... A loaded MKS Ecoboost is 55K A loaded Genesis tops out at $44 or so....but yet the difference in sales numbers is negligible. Ford can afford to sell less if its making that much more on the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It appears to me Hyundai is the most "up and coming" car company. The competitor Honda and Toyota should fear the most. Ford also. Some of our friends, who can buy anything they want, are buying them. They are not car people, they just say they are relatively low priced, reliable, have terrific warranty, and improving resale value. And most important....see no negative stigma to owning one. In the past, they would not be caught dead in one (like some of you), but that is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I agree with you Ralph. I no longer look down on cars wearing the tilted H. I wouldn't even mind owning one myself in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I agree with you Ralph. I no longer look down on cars wearing the tilted H. I wouldn't even mind owning one myself in a few years. I agree with both of you. There are some who really bash these cars. But even though most car companies are having their trials at this time, Toyota and Honda were both bashed as well back when. Hyundai doesn't offer 100K warranty expecting to pay out too much of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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