CandyCane Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Thank god those that came before us didn't just accept it !! I would say we are in the prime position at the bargaining tables next contract(or before if they choose to do so), a strike right now while Ford has so much to gain and even more to lose puts the chips in the workers favor currently. We can continue with prosperity gained by GM and Chrysler's downfall, or Ford can go down without the safety nets those two companies had. I prefer we continue on the path we are on but like I have already said the line needs to be drawn at some point, I know for a fact the workers have already done their part helping the company through the rough times. The only line you going to draw is the unemployment line if you keep thinking a strike against FORD is the answer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 WIXOM is closed, stop dreaming...............Move on in life!!! You may need to seek counseling if you can't accept that WIXOM is closed! Counselling or counseling,(n): a form of psychiatric help, most needed by a person who spells Wixom in all caps. Twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I heard they are meeting about another buyout offer this time it would be $150,000 to anyone who wants it..They want to make room for the 2nd Tier workers... They might go back to the original buyout offers. That's as good as they're probably going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) The only line you going to draw is the unemployment line if you keep thinking a strike against FORD is the answer!! How so, the National Ford Dept. has already given parity in advance, in every area except the no strike provision, and the retiree vision and dental. I really don't see how the retiree vision and dental helps the company anyway, the union has already agreed to take on the liability for this coverage. This means the union benefited from this provision. These changes will happen at Ford with or without a contract reopening, so then the only item left is a no strike provision. What the UAW has refused to give up in compensation, the company has saved in numbers. In 2004 there were 84,000 master wage UAW Ford employees, last count prior to the last round of buyouts was around 36,000. They cut them by more then half in 5 years. If the CEO's don't intend on attacking the master rate employees base wages, what is the need for a no-strike provision? The authority to strike is the only bargaining leverage the union has in negotiating sensitive items, and the company's wants them to surrender their leverage? Would you fist fight Mike Tyson bare fisted, while your hands are tied behind your back? That is like sending troops into battle, and telling them that they cannot return fire. I have a better idea, Mike Tyson swings and you hit him with a Louisville slugger. If the enemy shoots a gun at you, you drop a bomb on them! The line workers are not stupid. They took concessions when they were not forced to, to help the company out. Now that it is more an issue of parity, and less of survival I think they will be less cooperative. People lose work every day, and even the agreements that have been made to this point have not saved current employees from ILO. It is the union agreeing to the JSP language changes, and the suspension of this program that have allowed these ILO's in the first place. You managers need to quit acting like Rick Wagoner, and realize that you yourselves are the ones overpaid. Do your selves a favor and quit and/or take a pay cut before you also get fired for running the company into the ground. They might go back to the original buyout offers. That's as good as they're probably going to get. Nope, the suspension of the JSP took care of the original offer, if any offer is made it will be less. They will get their low tier in time, but they really don't care who does the work. Now they will concentrate on trying to get the master wage employees to take a cut in their base rate. Do not accept a no-strike provision for any reason, or for any empty promise. Where are all the new product commitments? If Ford had held up their end people would not be on ILO. Edited August 2, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 How so, the National Ford Dept. has already given parity in advance, in every area except the no strike provision, and the retiree vision and dental. I really don't see how the retiree vision and dental helps the company anyway, the union has already agreed to take on the liability for this coverage. This means the union benefited from this provision. These changes will happen at Ford with or without a contract reopening, so then the only item left is a no strike provision. What the UAW has refused to give up in compensation, the company has saved in numbers. In 2004 there were 84,000 master wage UAW Ford employees, last count prior to the last round of buyouts was around 36,000. They cut them by more then half in 5 years. If the CEO's don't intend on attacking the master rate employees base wages, what is the need for a no-strike provision? The authority to strike is the only bargaining leverage the union has in negotiating sensitive items, and the company's wants them to surrender their leverage? Would you fist fight Mike Tyson bare fisted, while your hands are tied behind your back? That is like sending troops into battle, and telling them that they cannot return fire. I have a better idea, Mike Tyson swings and you hit him with a Louisville slugger. If the enemy shoots a gun at you, you drop a bomb on them! The line workers are not stupid. They took concessions when they were not forced to, to help the company out. Now that it is more an issue of parity, and less of survival I think they will be less cooperative. People lose work every day, and even the agreements that have been made to this point have not saved current employees from ILO. It is the union agreeing to the JSP language changes, and the suspension of this program that have allowed these ILO's in the first place. You managers need to quit acting like Rick Wagoner, and realize that you yourselves are the ones overpaid. Do your selves a favor and quit and/or take a pay cut before you also get fired for running the company into the ground. Nope, the suspension of the JSP took care of the original offer, if any offer is made it will be less. They will get their low tier in time, but they really don't care who does the work. Now they will concentrate on trying to get the master wage employees to take a cut in their base rate. Do not accept a no-strike provision for any reason, or for any empty promise. Where are all the new product commitments? If Ford had held up their end people would not be on ILO. so TRUE! when will people learn ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 They want skilled trades consolidation too! electrical - mechanical. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) They want skilled trades consolidation too! electrical - mechanical. :shades: There is a reason that the trades were divided initially, each classification specializes in different applications. This will spawn a whole crew that are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. You wouldn't call an orthodontist in to do brain surgery just because they both work in the same area, would you? By dismantling trades, they are themselves going to loosen the tradespeople's effectiveness. Edited August 3, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyCane Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 There is a reason that the trade were divided initially, each classification specializes in different applications. This will spawn a whole crew that are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. You wouldn't call an orthodontist in to do brain surgery just because they both work in the same area, would you? By dismantling trades, they are themselves going to loosen the tradespeople's effectiveness. Effectiveness? You mean less time for them to sit around and play cards!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Effectiveness? You mean less time for them to sit around and play cards!!! "IF" they're playing cards, then the line is running, cars are being built, the company is making money. We're all happy. When they are fixing a breakdown, no ones happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Effectiveness? You mean less time for them to sit around and play cards!!! Maybe they would have more work to do if the company did not farm out all of their work to outside contractors. They want them when they are needed, but don't want to pay to retain them full time when there is a lul. Even the outside contractors are divided into classifications for specialized work. the difference is that they work out of a hall, and are laid off when there is not a project underway. I liken our tradesman to that of our local city street dept. The city doesn't want to provide them with the tools and training to handle critical projects, so they contract out to companies that do. We had huge sewer mains laid in my town, and none of the city street dept. workers did the work. The city's' argument is they don't have the experience and/or equipment to handle the work, however it is the cities fault that they under utilize their workers. They did not hire them to ride around all day and do nothing, so why don't they assign them the work they hired them to preform? If there is a problem with the way trades functions it is the management's fault, not the unions. All the oustside contractors have the same classification layouts. Not to mention the company has more control over who is accepted into trades then they do any other base operation and/or classification in any Ford facility. If the management wants to point a finger at anyone for how trades functions, then they need to look in the mirror. Where is all the PM work they use to do? They eliminate these jobs then pay later when there is a major break down. Edited August 3, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glow Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Ford wants to make sweet prison love to the UAW's behind. Will the membership bend over and take it again without a fight? History says yes. OMG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown 00 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 What is going on now ????????? Got Guns? Asked the important question. NOW We had all better be prepared to make the right decision to protect each and every one of US. All you house cats need to form a line at wal-mart!!!! The rest need to think with common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) The VEBA committee has the power to take that stuff away anyway once they oversee the trust fund. Right, they are using the company as a patsy for things they intend on doing anyway. The liability of the retirees health care soon falls on the union, not the company. Edited August 3, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retiree Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Right, they are using the company as a patsy for things they intend on doing anyway. The liability of the retirees health care soon falls on the union, not the company. I agree with Furious, UAW will have Ford ask to do away with retiree Vision and Dental prior to the VEBA, also look for more Trade consolidation and lose the right to strike. With these changes we will mirror the GM Chrysler agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaw400 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 The meeting that is going on this Wed. is nothing more than an annual meeting ! Don't listen to the non-sense ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I agree with Furious, UAW will have Ford ask to do away with retiree Vision and Dental prior to the VEBA, also look for more Trade consolidation and lose the right to strike. With these changes we will mirror the GM Chrysler agreements. Trades consolidation will probably still happen, and it is a shame because they could have been better utilized with the current classifications in place. It looks as though though the company attacking them is to pass the buck for managements short comings in managing trades. The medical is a no-brainer, we discussed what could potentially happen if it the VEBA was under funded. We knew that in 07' Then the government allows our competition to fund half of their previous commitments in stock in lieu of cash. But the no-strike provision is unnecessary. The contracts are already so close without giving up the rite to strike, that the argument that "they cannot be competitive with their domestic competition" is ridiculous. Ford is beating the domestic competition, and are profitable, and they do not have/need a no-strike provision in their contract to be competitive. Edited August 5, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopy Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 We are in a race to the bottom! Somebody has to start the fight against concessions! Why not Ford workers? We are Ford workers who fought against the last concessions and we are ready to fight against them again. Alan Mulally and other Ford executives have made it clear – they want more concessions from Ford workers. Just 2 months after Ford workers gave up major concessions, company executives are demanding more. They want the same concessions that GM and Chrysler got from the UAW. The concessions at GM and Chrysler matched the Ford contract, and went even further. GM and Chrysler retirees lose part of their medical coverage (dental and vision). But even more destructively to all autoworkers, the UAW leadership agreed to binding arbitration in the 2011 contract. They gave up the union’s right to strike. They gave an arbitrator the right to bring down our wages and benefits even further in 2011, to the level of the transplants, even as the transplants are preparing to lower THEIR wages and benefits. If it wasn’t clear to everyone before, it certainly should be now – concessions have nothing to do with the economy being bad. It’s clear that we can’t wait until the economy gets better and expect that the companies will give back what they have taken from us. The auto companies intend to keep taking concessions, again and again. They intend to take back all the gains that autoworkers have won over the past 70 years. But we are not ready to go back there. We work at the Dearborn Truck Plant and a few of us started a campaign against the last concessions and our plant voted “No” by 64%. We know workers in other Ford plants who also campaigned against the concessions and their plants voted “No” by more than 70% At least 9 Ford units or locals voted down the contract. If there were people in a few more Ford plants doing the same thing, the last contract could have been voted down. Now we have to get ready for when Ford comes after us again. We believe that autoworkers do not want to keep taking concessions after concessions. We think that concessions can be stopped. Somebody just has to take the first step and say “No!” If you agree and are ready to fight concessions, please get in touch with us. David Gelman Melvin Lofton Vinny C. Xenakis Jaime Lopez Kevin London Alonzo Pizana Joe Benjamin Bonnie Cook Monroe Edwards Vicki Hedy Johnnie Williams Gary Walkowicz, Dearborn Truck Plant Bargaining Committeeman Call Gary at (313) 737-3166; or email GWALK15@peoplepc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maislebandit Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I must ask why the company is pursuing the "no strike" clause so hard. One can only deduct that they intend to introduce scenario(s) that the UAW could/would strike against. The right to strike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be negotiated away. A strike is a last resort tool to thwart unfairness to the workforce. If we concede this right, we might as well forego the union and save the 2 hours a month. Without being able to strike, the UAW will have no clout and basically be like a baby that cries too much. Annoying, but hardly a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I must ask why the company is pursuing the "no strike" clause so hard. One can only deduct that they intend to introduce scenario(s) that the UAW could/would strike against. The right to strike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be negotiated away. A strike is a last resort tool to thwart unfairness to the workforce. If we concede this right, we might as well forego the union and save the 2 hours a month. Without being able to strike, the UAW will have no clout and basically be like a baby that cries too much. Annoying, but hardly a threat. +1 Management sez the company is profitable. Sales are perking up. Management says even ACH plants are profitable. No more concessions. None. Nada. Zilch. In fact, if things keep improving, we want HMO's, Xmas bonus and performance bonus' back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelincolns Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I must ask why the company is pursuing the "no strike" clause so hard. One can only deduct that they intend to introduce scenario(s) that the UAW could/would strike against. The right to strike should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be negotiated away. A strike is a last resort tool to thwart unfairness to the workforce. If we concede this right, we might as well forego the union and save the 2 hours a month. Without being able to strike, the UAW will have no clout and basically be like a baby that cries too much. Annoying, but hardly a threat. You are correct. A no strike clause would throw out the window good faith bargaining. The UAW isn't stupid and would never strike where the outcome would bankrupt the company however the strike clause needs to be left in the contract to prevent the company from taking total advantage of the union and its workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi-lo feva2 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 +1 Management sez the company is profitable. Sales are perking up. Management says even ACH plants are profitable. No more concessions. None. Nada. Zilch. In fact, if things keep improving, we want HMO's, Xmas bonus and performance bonus' back. That's it in a nutshell. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0824sgt Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Candycane , Go Fuck Yourself you antagonist piece of shit!!! Get off this site!!! Go to the Salary forum to get a rah rah!! Fuckhead!!!! :angry: :gang: :slap: :kissass: Now to the rest of us who care!!! The rumor here is 6 dollars an hour pay cut, 2 trades system, national seniority, trades running production!! These of course are just rumors but they leaked from a couple committee men!!! I admitedly voted yes the last time in order to help this company through the tough times! Nobody knew where the bottom was and I believed and was talked into thats what needed to happen!!! Now things are different we saw the bottom and we are rebounding! Ford is in the best shape of the domestics and more profitable than Toyota in North America!!! I have seen zero commitment from the last concessions more ILO's and more outsourcing, no executive pay cuts and safety Nazi's take over to fire and dicipline people whenever possible even if they make up a rule you never heard of!! For me their will be no talking me into anything, I will walk in, pass the doughnut and coffee line go straight to the vote box and vote NO!!! I will make very sure not to mess anything up so's my vote counts and can not be thrown out for any reason!!! If one union official tells me like they did last time that "you gatta vote yes", Im gonna tell them the same thing I told Candyass here!! Go Fuck Yourself!!!! Like Mulally said " No Im fine where im at"!!! Thanx for all you have done Al but No and Go Fuck yourself on any more concessions!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopy Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Candycane , Go Fuck Yourself you antagonist piece of shit!!! Get off this site!!! Go to the Salary forum to get a rah rah!! Fuckhead!!!! :angry: :gang: :slap: :kissass: Now to the rest of us who care!!! The rumor here is 6 dollars an hour pay cut, 2 trades system, national seniority, trades running production!! These of course are just rumors but they leaked from a couple committee men!!! I admitedly voted yes the last time in order to help this company through the tough times! Nobody knew where the bottom was and I believed and was talked into thats what needed to happen!!! Now things are different we saw the bottom and we are rebounding! Ford is in the best shape of the domestics and more profitable than Toyota in North America!!! I have seen zero commitment from the last concessions more ILO's and more outsourcing, no executive pay cuts and safety Nazi's take over to fire and dicipline people whenever possible even if they make up a rule you never heard of!! For me their will be no talking me into anything, I will walk in, pass the doughnut and coffee line go straight to the vote box and vote NO!!! I will make very sure not to mess anything up so's my vote counts and can not be thrown out for any reason!!! If one union official tells me like they did last time that "you gatta vote yes", Im gonna tell them the same thing I told Candyass here!! Go Fuck Yourself!!!! Like Mulally said " No Im fine where im at"!!! Thanx for all you have done Al but No and Go Fuck yourself on any more concessions!!!! From My source in the meeting yesterday,I got a phone call with the update on what went on in there. I was told that it was more or less a feeling out status of "how popular concessions at this time would be". and, to put it in a nutshell, Chairman that helped support the last rounds of concessions, got up and spoke and they said that there is "strong opposition to anymore concessions and that they would surely vote them down" and in addition, they said that "they would be voted out of office (chairman and bargaining reps) if they backed them". It is in my opinion, that the Ford/UAW is in a stronger bargaining position now then they have been in some years. I base this opinion on the fact that the company has gained market share, shown profit and an increase in sales and quality. Ford would not want anything to jeopardize their gains at this point. I suggest that all UAW members hold their line in the sand here on anymore concessions. Believe me this is far from over and they will be back whether its today or six months down the road. We have a strong task at hand fighting not only the greed of the company but the IUAW who are in bed with them. Hold what you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster6969 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 From My source in the meeting yesterday,I got a phone call with the update on what went on in there. I was told that it was more or less a feeling out status of "how popular concessions at this time would be". and, to put it in a nutshell, Chairman that helped support the last rounds of concessions, got up and spoke and they said that there is "strong opposition to anymore concessions and that they would surely vote them down" and in addition, they said that "they would be voted out of office (chairman and bargaining reps) if they backed them". It is in my opinion, that the Ford/UAW is in a stronger bargaining position now then they have been in some years. I base this opinion on the fact that the company has gained market share, shown profit and an increase in sales and quality. Ford would not want anything to jeopardize their gains at this point. I suggest that all UAW members hold their line in the sand here on anymore concessions. Believe me this is far from over and they will be back whether its today or six months down the road. We have a strong task at hand fighting not only the greed of the company but the IUAW who are in bed with them. Hold what you got. You are correct there needs to be a strong line held, but I hope that they would still listen to what Ford has to offer, because you are correct we are in a better position to get some things back :shades: SALINE/SANDUSKY/Indy/Sheldon Rd,/ fusion/milan/zepher/fiesta/twinn cities/Ford stock at the original offer to the veba($2.00, 2.10 & 2.20 ) over the next couple of yrs, Seats in Rawsonville, real product for OHAP, TRUE salaried reductions (3 super's deep at each location), $1 for Mulally and give back his stock options (which are worth about 2 million now) If not mr. mulally then guess what!!!! WE THE UAW ARE GOOD RIGHT WHERE WE ARE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Candycane , Go Fuck Yourself you antagonist piece of shit!!! Get off this site!!! Go to the Salary forum to get a rah rah!! Fuckhead!!!! :angry: :gang: :slap: :kissass: Now to the rest of us who care!!! The rumor here is 6 dollars an hour pay cut, 2 trades system, national seniority, trades running production!! These of course are just rumors but they leaked from a couple committee men!!! I admitedly voted yes the last time in order to help this company through the tough times! Nobody knew where the bottom was and I believed and was talked into thats what needed to happen!!! Now things are different we saw the bottom and we are rebounding! Ford is in the best shape of the domestics and more profitable than Toyota in North America!!! I have seen zero commitment from the last concessions more ILO's and more outsourcing, no executive pay cuts and safety Nazi's take over to fire and dicipline people whenever possible even if they make up a rule you never heard of!! For me their will be no talking me into anything, I will walk in, pass the doughnut and coffee line go straight to the vote box and vote NO!!! I will make very sure not to mess anything up so's my vote counts and can not be thrown out for any reason!!! If one union official tells me like they did last time that "you gatta vote yes", Im gonna tell them the same thing I told Candyass here!! Go Fuck Yourself!!!! Like Mulally said " No Im fine where im at"!!! Thanx for all you have done Al but No and Go Fuck yourself on any more concessions!!!! your full of SHIT!! Ford didnt ask for a $6 an hour pay cut so stop lying.. GM uaw makes $28 an hour and u think there gonna cut Fords to $22 an hour what a bunch of bullshit... Like that PR would help ford gain market share.. they want to match GM's VEBA cuts thats it... stop all of the scare tactics already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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