silvrsvt Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Not sure if this more marketing hype that the consumer has bought into or what.... http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/11/survey-...cant-afford-it/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Again, CONSUMERS are drawn to an item not by it making monetary sense, but rather trying to convey an image. This is what has so many people being foreclosed on, on their homes and having their cars repo. Yes, go ahead and spend $10K more on the hybrid version of a vehicle, so you can realize the gas savings 10 years from now. Hm, well thats IF they kepe it 10 years which they wont...geesh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 12% premium for a hybrid is c. $2500k for a typical Fusion. Don't for a minute think that Ford isn't aware of this---and isn't working feverishly to get the premium under that price point. --- People didn't -need- cars a hundred years ago either. But HF saw the desire for them and met it. The rest, as they say............. is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Again, CONSUMERS are drawn to an item not by it making monetary sense, but rather trying to convey an image. This is what has so many people being foreclosed on, on their homes and having their cars repo. Yes, go ahead and spend $10K more on the hybrid version of a vehicle, so you can realize the gas savings 10 years from now. Hm, well thats IF they kepe it 10 years which they wont...geesh... Yup, I bought a FFH to look cool, convey the green/hip image, get the tax credit, and its going to cost me a lot less to operate than the used 3 Series BMW's that were on my short list of cars to buy. Then my wife took it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Again, CONSUMERS are drawn to an item not by it making monetary sense, but rather trying to convey an image. This is what has so many people being foreclosed on, on their homes and having their cars repo. Yes, go ahead and spend $10K more on the hybrid version of a vehicle, so you can realize the gas savings 10 years from now. Hm, well thats IF they kepe it 10 years which they wont...geesh... Which hybrid costs more than $10K than its conventional counterpart? Certainly I can't think of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Again, CONSUMERS are drawn to an item not by it making monetary sense, but rather trying to convey an image. This is what has so many people being foreclosed on, on their homes and having their cars repo. Yes, go ahead and spend $10K more on the hybrid version of a vehicle, so you can realize the gas savings 10 years from now. Hm, well thats IF they kepe it 10 years which they wont...geesh... D BlueRay DVD player doesn't make monetary sense. But people value quality visual entertainment. Those who value it the most are ready to adopt it early at a much higher cost. Eventually, as demand and production ramp up, this new technology becomes more affordable and it eventually becomes the new standard, because the cost and value for the average person comes into sync. Sure some people like to convey to the people around them that they are making an energy efficient choice for one reason or another, but the fact is that, for shallow reasons or not, many early adopters value this energy efficiency highly enough to justify the added cost. Go ahead and look down your nose at these early adopters, but be thankful that as a result, the technology is being developed and in a decade or two, you probably will also own a vehicle with at least a partially electric drivetrain, and you'll be enjoying lower fuel costs, a more energy independent country and improved urban air quality. When I buy my first car, I plan to be an early adopter of advanced powertrains, because i'm excited about the technology and I appreciate what it achieves, more so than I care about the economics of the deal. As far as BlueRay, I would like to have a player and a nice library of movies, but I don't place that high a value on high resolution video content, so I'll happily wait till the prices come down as they did for DVDs about ten years ago. I don't feel superior to those who do chose to spend more of their money on blueray hardware and content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) The "real" price gap of a Fusion I4 vs a Fusion Hybrid is between $5000 to $7000 depending on configuration...I wanted to get a hybrid, took one out for a test drive (and loved it) but in the end, it didn't make sense to spend all that extra $$$ for a return that wouldn't be fully realized for 6-7 years. In the end, I kept my 2006....we'll see what EcoBoost does. I did drive a Fusion with the I4 / 6 speed auto combo...it was nice, but I am used to the "snap" of my V6....hopefully, EcoBoost can change my mind.... Edited September 13, 2009 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Again, CONSUMERS are drawn to an item not by it making monetary sense, but rather trying to convey an image. This is what has so many people being foreclosed on, on their homes and having their cars repo. Yes, go ahead and spend $10K more on the hybrid version of a vehicle, so you can realize the gas savings 10 years from now. Hm, well thats IF they kepe it 10 years which they wont...geesh... I'm not sure why folks always take the bare bones stripper model, compare it to well equipped hybrids and then complain about the price. If you do the math and were an early adopter the price difference is essentially negligible. I don't quite remember but at the end of the day I believe we paid somewhere around a $1900 price premium for our Hybrid Mariner (including tax incentives). With the Fusion/Milan, early adopters will have paid 0 once tax incentives are calculated in. On top of that I took a quick look at the fuel log, and over the past 7 months we have averaged 33 MPG with the Mariner. I highly doubt a 4 cylinder gas version would be able to even come close to touching that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) The point is simple...when it becomes more affordable without a "subsidy" to buy it....it will become mainstream...until then, mostly greenies and tax dodgers are interested in hybrids. Edited September 13, 2009 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The "real" price gap of a Fusion I4 vs a Fusion Hybrid is between $5000 to $7000 depending on configuration...I wanted to get a hybrid, took one out for a test drive (and loved it) but in the end, it didn't make sense to spend all that extra $$$ for a return that wouldn't be fully realized for 6-7 years. In the end, I kept my 2006....we'll see what EcoBoost does. I did drive a Fusion with the I4 / 6 speed auto combo...it was nice, but I am used to the "snap" of my V6....hopefully, EcoBoost can change my mind.... I think that is a bit too high on the price gap. You have to look at comparable cars -- and the Fusion Hybrid's closest equivalent trim level is the SEL. In these days of Rapid Spec, it's actually fairly easy to directly compare them. The three Hybrid Rapid Spec configurations' prices are: 500A: $27,995 501A: $29,590 502A: $31,940 The SEL 300A Rapid Spec is basically the same as 500A, and that's at $24,700. The SEL 301A, however, is not equivalent to 501A -- it doesn't have the Driver's Vision package that is included in 501A; 302A appears to be equivalent to 501A, and that's at $26,495. To get to be equivalent to 502A, you'll have to have 302A and add navigation, which pushes the price to $28,270. Basically, the difference is more like $3,200. Given the $1,700 tax credit (until 10/1), the actual difference is about $1,500, which, assuming the EPA's current assumptions of 15,000 miles per year, $2.44 per gallon, and 55% city driving, means that the fuel difference is $527 per year. The break-even point is more like three years, not six or seven. (Plus, while it may be my enthusiasm for the hybrid that's clouding my observation, but when I recently drove a V6 SEL as a rental (see this thread), the V6 SEL, with a lot higher power numbers, doesn't seem as responsive, as far as its performance is concerned. That's also disregarding the fact that the Hybrid is a major time-saver.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Maybe Ford should go from "Have You Driven a Ford Lately" to "Have You Hugged A Tree Lately"... Nah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I think that is a bit too high on the price gap. You have to look at comparable cars -- and the Fusion Hybrid's closest equivalent trim level is the SEL. In these days of Rapid Spec, it's actually fairly easy to directly compare them.... No....it is why I said "real" price gap with quotes....dealers are demanding (and getting) full MSRP on hybrids...while you can negotiate on a non-hybrid. The gap is greater than what you are showing. I really, really like the Fusion Hybrid....but sensibility dictated that I wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 No....it is why I said "real" price gap with quotes....dealers are demanding (and getting) full MSRP on hybrids...while you can negotiate on a non-hybrid. The gap is greater than what you are showing. I really, really like the Fusion Hybrid....but sensibility dictated that I wait. True, although it should be noted that when CARS was going on, a hybrid likely would have netted the buyer an extra $1K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 True, although it should be noted that when CARS was going on, a hybrid likely would have netted the buyer an extra $1K. Spend $6000 to save $1000? Do you work in any Government position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Spend $6000 to save $1000? Do you work in any Government position? Sure (as will be further mentioned below). Are you capable of adding two or more things together? I know you are. I have to conclude that you either didn't read the posts above in this thread or you are being disingenuous. 1. The difference is not $6,000. As discussed above, the difference in MSRP is $3,200 between a hybrid and a comparable I4 SEL. While it is true that you can bargain on a SEL where you probably have to pay MSRP for a hybrid, there is no way that you would have been able to get $2,800 off MSRP during the CARS period -- or, for that matter, right now -- given how much demand the Fusions were/are in. 2. The savings is far more than $1,000. Basically, you add these things up (given that our hypothetical here was during the CARS period), assuming, as EPA does, that you're going to drive 15,000 miles per year, 55% of it in the city, and the price of gas is $2.44 per gallon -- and I'll further assume that you'll drive the car for five years: $1,000 difference in CARS $1,700 hybrid tax credit $2,635 gas savings The total is $5,335, which I think is likely to be higher than the price difference between the hybrid and the comparable I4 SEL. 3. And that ignores that, assuming, again, that you drive it for five years at the rate that the EPA estimates, given the gas savings of 1,077 gallons, that you'll make 67 less trips to the gas station. Further, given the difference in maintenance schedule, you'll also be making just 8 maintenance trips, rather than 15. At the cost of, let's save, five minutes per gas station trip, that's 335 minutes -- about 6 1/2 hours. The 8 maintenance trips, assuming 6 hours per trip, we're talking about 48 hours, for a total of 54 1/2 hours. Certainly I assume your time is as valuable as mine and, even if not, I assume it's not worthless. If you want to throw that time away, obviously, you are free to do so. As far as I myself am concerned, I am a public defender, and I drive 25,000 miles per year, in a state where not only is the price of gas not at $2.44, but it's currently basically about $3.15. Certainly I think getting a hybrid is a no-brainer. Your mileage may vary. (There are minor tradeoffs; the hybrid's got better performance, while the SEL has larger cargo space.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Not sure if this more marketing hype that the consumer has bought into or what.... http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/11/survey-...cant-afford-it/ sheesh......I want a Flex eco and i cant afford THAT either........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 There are hybrids and hybrids. The Vold vs the Prius for example. Volt is technically superior perhaps but also extremely expensive for an "electric Astra". Prius is cheaper but not the real deal. 20K for an Electric small car just doesn't float my boat. Personally I think the technology needs to find it's feet in the premium sector first and then trickle down like most things do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 There are hybrids and hybrids. The Vold vs the Prius for example. Volt is technically superior perhaps but also extremely expensive for an "electric Astra". Prius is cheaper but not the real deal. 20K for an Electric small car just doesn't float my boat. Personally I think the technology needs to find it's feet in the premium sector first and then trickle down like most things do.... Whether the Volt makes sense financially depends on how well it actually does when it comes out and how much money it ends up costing. Right now, it will be speculation to say that it does or it doesn't. But as I think I've shown, the Ford hybrids make sense, as long as you drive them enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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