jsh0071 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Game, set and MATCH!!! We squabble amongst ourselves while the various politcos are driving the economy into the abyss. I love your little screen blurb!! I can't type either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownvicsparky Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 As I said on here a few weeks ago... No Commitment = No Vote and that is exactly how I voted Kiss my ars Ford !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bareback_Avenger Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Why I will not vote No. I will not vote no because there are a bunch of posters screaming vote no because they are thinking of themselves first and how this affects them. I will not vote no just because there are concessions. I will wait to listen to what the union has to say before i vote yes or I vote no. STAP. Sorry about your luck. OAC backed you last contract but you did not back yourself so now you have to look in the mirror. The time to develop a backbone is not now. The time was last contract when you collectively voted yes. Some your members come on here and bad mouth OAC and their workers, quality, bash the CAW etc. then quickly put in a VOTE NO. Why are you afraid of letting people make up their own minds instead of trying to influence them for your own selfish reasons. Go to the Hall and listen to what the CAW has to say. If you don't like it then vote No if you dont like it or if you think the closure package could be better. If its acceptable then vote yes. I will see how this affects the Skilled Trades and Retirees before I decide which way to vote. OACville, in your post you talk about how STAP members are quickly to put in a "VOTE NO". I just want to clarify something it's not just STAP.....my post was three above this one I just quoted of yours, first I am from OAC, second I am in the skilled trades at OAC, and you being in the skilled trades you should know that Ford wants to slaughter us. I am assuming you went to the emergency skilled trades meeting that was called, after Paul Ried resigned as skilled trades chair? If you did, you would have heard our committee reps mention that Ford was gunning for us. Nobody is telling you how you have to vote dude, you are free to do what ever you want! I've personally had enough of the lies from the union and the lies from ford. So far from what we know of this agreement it's a no win for the caw members of Ford, actually concessions are never a win! 1) St. Thomas is closing - Company 1, CAW 0 2) St. Thomas members are not getting the pattern severence that GM or Chrysler are getting - Company 1, CAW 0 3) Global Platform for OAC sometime after 2012 - Company 1, CAW 0, because we all know ford will use this to bargain with in 2012 4) Loss of spa week - Company 1, CAW 0, this will lower the RTO numbers 5) Roll existing spa week back into your holidays - Company 1, CAW 0, spa weeks were manditory when put in with holidays there not any more which means people will sell there holidays and there are those that do, the company knows it and this will effect the RTO numbers even more. 6) Wage & COL frozen - Company 1, CAW 0 we already took this hit last year and now they want to prolong it 7) Ford has promised to add a third shift at Oakville "when market volumes justify it." - Company 1, CAW 0, I bet you won't see that during this contract, in September Ford had told the CAW that OAC was only going to run on two shifts now possibly three, another empty promise. 8) $19 an hour hit in benefits, etc. - Company 1, CAW 0, it doesn't matter if your base wage wasn't touched that $19/ hour will affect your pocket sooner or later. 9) Skilled Trades - I am scared to even hear this one!!! So far Company 8 -Caw 0, should I keep going??? I don't need to listen to what that monkey lewenza and his circus side kicks have to say to make my decision. This jackass breaks pattern of the $7/h hit he negotiated with GM, to a $19/h hit to save his buddies at his old Chrysler local and during this time declares in print in the Toronto Star that "the day of pattern barganing is finished and it is something we need to except".......Now he comes to Ford and say's we need pattern bargainig it's always worked good for us, and we the CAW Ford members are sopose trust this monkey and his circus side kicks , I for one don't!!! Remember one thing Ford is full of empty promises and we all know it, any consessions we give now we will never get back in the future, without an Auto Pact Globalization certainly guaranty's this! Edited October 31, 2009 by Bareback_Avenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapworker Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Good luck to everyone. It's going to be tough for everyone, some will have to leave the ST.Thomas area to find work but it was not our fault that Ford cant see that with a little investment we could be up to two shift's again. We put out quality vehicles that Ford feel's is no longer wanted which is surprising considering the number of vehicle's we are building for export right now. If Ford put the CV / GM and Town Car back on open market I think they would be surprised at the numbers they could sell on the domestic market. It's out of our hand's now so all we can do is to continue building the quality our customer's want until the last one leave's the building. I hope Oakville and Windsor can survive but I think you guy's had better start looking 2 year's into the future, no one is safe anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba11 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 My brother calls Ford "the Wal-mart of the auto industry". Pick and choose pattern bargaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 My brother calls Ford "the Wal-mart of the auto industry". Pick and choose pattern bargaining. What does he call the CAW who sat back and let it happen despite all their chest pounding? Some people need to realize, the CAW work for the hourly employees of Ford. They had a job to do, and failed miserably. It's high time there was some accountability within the CAW leadership. 1,600 people just lost their job today, it's only seems fair Chrysler Kenny and his cronies lose theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I love your little screen blurb!! I can't type either! :hyper: See you all on Sunday.....Vote YES......probably....maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba11 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 What does he call the CAW who sat back and let it happen despite all their chest pounding? Some people need to realize, the CAW work for the hourly employees of Ford. They had a job to do, and failed miserably. It's high time there was some accountability within the CAW leadership. 1,600 people just lost their job today, it's only seems fair Chrysler Kenny and his cronies lose theirs. What he had to say about Ken could not be posted on here. My Brothers @ local 444. He knows him all to well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 OACville, in your post you talk about how STAP members are quickly to put in a "VOTE NO". I just want to clarify something it's not just STAP.....my post was three above this one I just quoted of yours, first I am from OAC, second I am in the skilled trades at OAC, and you being in the skilled trades you should know that Ford wants to slaughter us. I am assuming you went to the emergency skilled trades meeting that was called, after Paul Ried resigned as skilled trades chair? If you did, you would have heard our committee reps mention that Ford was gunning for us. Nobody is telling you how you have to vote dude, you are free to do what ever you want! I've personally had enough of the lies from the union and the lies from ford. So far from what we know of this agreement it's a no win for the caw members of Ford, actually concessions are never a win! 1) St. Thomas is closing - Company 1, CAW 0 2) St. Thomas members are not getting the pattern severence that GM or Chrysler are getting - Company 1, CAW 0 3) Global Platform for OAC sometime after 2012 - Company 1, CAW 0, because we all know ford will use this to bargain with in 2012 4) Loss of spa week - Company 1, CAW 0, this will lower the RTO numbers 5) Roll existing spa week back into your holidays - Company 1, CAW 0, spa weeks were manditory when put in with holidays there not any more which means people will sell there holidays and there are those that do, the company knows it and this will effect the RTO numbers even more. 6) Wage & COL frozen - Company 1, CAW 0 we already took this hit last year and now they want to prolong it 7) Ford has promised to add a third shift at Oakville "when market volumes justify it." - Company 1, CAW 0, I bet you won't see that during this contract, in September Ford had told the CAW that OAC was only going to run on two shifts now possibly three, another empty promise. 8) $19 an hour hit in benefits, etc. - Company 1, CAW 0, it doesn't matter if your base wage wasn't touched that $19/ hour will affect your pocket sooner or later. 9) Skilled Trades - I am scared to even hear this one!!! So far Company 8 -Caw 0, should I keep going??? I don't need to listen to what that monkey lewenza and his circus side kicks have to say to make my decision. This jackass breaks pattern of the $7/h hit he negotiated with GM, to a $19/h hit to save his buddies at his old Chrysler local and during this time declares in print in the Toronto Star that "the day of pattern barganing is finished and it is something we need to except".......Now he comes to Ford and say's we need pattern bargainig it's always worked good for us, and we the CAW Ford members are sopose trust this monkey and his circus side kicks , I for one don't!!! Remember one thing Ford is full of empty promises and we all know it, any consessions we give now we will never get back in the future, without an Auto Pact Globalization certainly guaranty's this! What? you don't believe in the mythical 3rd shift?? Remember we had it for the Freestar.....oh wait, never happened, ok ok we had it for the Edge Flex MKX..........., oh wait, that NEVER HAPPENED either. Shit we are 0 for 2 so far. This new platform will rear it's ugly head just in time for the NEXT set of negotiations, talk about getting mileage out of a few words. Nice. See you at the meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stap guy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I have never been embarassed to be a CAW member until today. But don't worry though, fluenza is feeling our pain. F.U. you bastard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky1520 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 this is the CAW living to fight another day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnthrmushroom Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 this is the CAW living to fight another day Priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 OACville, in your post you talk about how STAP members are quickly to put in a "VOTE NO". I just want to clarify something it's not just STAP.....my post was three above this one I just quoted of yours, first I am from OAC, second I am in the skilled trades at OAC, and you being in the skilled trades you should know that Ford wants to slaughter us. I am assuming you went to the emergency skilled trades meeting that was called, after Paul Ried resigned as skilled trades chair? If you did, you would have heard our committee reps mention that Ford was gunning for us. Nobody is telling you how you have to vote dude, you are free to do what ever you want! I've personally had enough of the lies from the union and the lies from ford. So far from what we know of this agreement it's a no win for the caw members of Ford, actually concessions are never a win! 1) St. Thomas is closing - Company 1, CAW 0 2) St. Thomas members are not getting the pattern severence that GM or Chrysler are getting - Company 1, CAW 0 3) Global Platform for OAC sometime after 2012 - Company 1, CAW 0, because we all know ford will use this to bargain with in 2012 4) Loss of spa week - Company 1, CAW 0, this will lower the RTO numbers 5) Roll existing spa week back into your holidays - Company 1, CAW 0, spa weeks were manditory when put in with holidays there not any more which means people will sell there holidays and there are those that do, the company knows it and this will effect the RTO numbers even more. 6) Wage & COL frozen - Company 1, CAW 0 we already took this hit last year and now they want to prolong it 7) Ford has promised to add a third shift at Oakville "when market volumes justify it." - Company 1, CAW 0, I bet you won't see that during this contract, in September Ford had told the CAW that OAC was only going to run on two shifts now possibly three, another empty promise. 8) $19 an hour hit in benefits, etc. - Company 1, CAW 0, it doesn't matter if your base wage wasn't touched that $19/ hour will affect your pocket sooner or later. 9) Skilled Trades - I am scared to even hear this one!!! So far Company 8 -Caw 0, should I keep going??? I don't need to listen to what that monkey lewenza and his circus side kicks have to say to make my decision. This jackass breaks pattern of the $7/h hit he negotiated with GM, to a $19/h hit to save his buddies at his old Chrysler local and during this time declares in print in the Toronto Star that "the day of pattern barganing is finished and it is something we need to except".......Now he comes to Ford and say's we need pattern bargainig it's always worked good for us, and we the CAW Ford members are sopose trust this monkey and his circus side kicks , I for one don't!!! Remember one thing Ford is full of empty promises and we all know it, any consessions we give now we will never get back in the future, without an Auto Pact Globalization certainly guaranty's this! Not quite sure where you are going with this or what your agenda is but you only have three posts and I doubt you are new here. If you are tired of the lies from Ford and the Union then save yourself brother. Don't put up with the lies and go work someplace where you wont be so "tired". You listed a bunch of items and declared the company a winner. Some of my observations 1. We knew St Thomas was closing years ago, they just delayed it a bit. The few extra years the union got for these people means nothing i guess. 2. St Thomas people are getting a severence plus almost two years notice, have a look around and see how other workers that dont have the CAW fare when their plant closes. 3. I guess a Globe Platform doesn't help the workers but you must have some insider info and know all the details. 4. and 5 Our Spa is converted to 40 hours of Holidays. If everybody takes their holidays then you still need coverage for those weeks. We lost the other Spa week at the last concession. 6. I dont see many people getting wage increases and Cola Outside the CAW. Be glad that they are just Frozen. 7. A third shift makes no sense. A third shift only gives Ford and extra 3 and change hours of production. Does that warrent hiring an entire crew. If two shifts work 10 hours then thats 20 hours of production right there 8. The benefits might hit the pocket book and It might not. It depends on your situation and the benefits that are cut, need more information. Im not worried about wages, cola, vacation and benefits. All that stuff you can get back in the future. 9. Skilled trades.. Welders are done, one has already been informed of this.. They want to cut some numbers but it remains to be seen how they decide to do it. Perhaps with attrition. Dont know. This is the topic that will sway my vote I still enjoy my job and will happily do it, when I stop enjoying it I will seek work elsewhere. I'm not really sure what you were expecting with this contract or how you expect a business to treat their employees. As far as the CAW, maybe some people are lying to you. If you ask a question that you dont know the answer to then you are setting yourself up. If you do know somebody is lying to you then call them out. You will have a Mic at the hearing tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastime Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 so do we take the money or do we hope for an opening to transfer to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstapr Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 so do we take the money or do we hope for an opening to transfer to? Nov. 3 2009 will be your hire date at oakville. Even if it takes 2 years to add a shift there. Any new hires at Oakville between now and when STAP closes will have lower senoirity then STAP people. Even any of the 1000 people laid off in windsor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 so do we take the money or do we hope for an opening to transfer to?I guess it depends if buyouts come to OAC. If it does, I'm sure there'll be openings. Either way you've got 2 years to decide that don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastime Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Nov. 3 2009 will be your hire date at oakville. Even if it takes 2 years to add a shift there. Any new hires at Oakville between now and when STAP closes will have lower senoirity then STAP people. Even any of the 1000 people laid off in windsor. I don't care .. I just want to put my time in to get my pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapRoboSitter Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 No Matter the Vote, do any of you REALLY think Ford is going back to the bargaining table? STAP Will be shuttered when Ford wants it to close, concesssions or no concessions... They get a Yes? GREAT... they get to save some money and praise the CAW for their forward thinking... No Vote? They get to shutter a plant, make the CAW look like a bunch of retards for thinking from the Dark Ages... If Ford is not willing to promise to keep STAP open no matter what... is there a choice? Is this a Game? damned right it is... Fact remains we could all come up with a contract to work for Minimum wage and no Bennies and they could still close STAP... We can bitch and argue back and forth forever... We don't have the answers, we will never have the answers (Where are you Wizard?!) and we're fucked if we vote yes, fucked if we vote no... Can we at least agree on one thing? The Industry? Fucked Ford? Fucked CAW? Fucked STAP + Windor? Fucked (refering to everything that has been lost, not the peanuts they've been "promised") OAC? Who the hell knows... one thing is for sure SOMEone wants to build cars there for some reason... and don't talk to me about the Flex'ing... wouldn't take Ford 2 months to rip if out and move it down the road to wherever the hell they wanted (even if its just a warehouse somewhere in say, St.Thomas) ... so be wary Ladies and Gentlemen... No plant is safe, not here, Not in the US, not in Hermisillo, don't think for 2 seconds that most people really give a shit where their cars are built... Vote for Yourself, vote for your brothers and sisters... vote for your family... STAP is Dead if the company says it is, Concessions or no... We all know the property is worthless... Company writes our paycheque's... Do you REALLY think we have any power to tell them what to do?? Every STAP'r knows the quality we have produced with little/no investment... 2 major robot lines that are 20+ years old!! (w/original robots, not upgraded over time) We have nothing else to prove... Company makes a MINT off of us and our profits are used to fund every other platform out there... Yeah I know, I wander... ADD's a bitch oh... I forgot... Ed? Fucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) No Matter the Vote, do any of you REALLY think Ford is going back to the bargaining table? STAP Will be shuttered when Ford wants it to close, concesssions or no concessions... They get a Yes? GREAT... they get to save some money and praise the CAW for their forward thinking... No Vote? They get to shutter a plant, make the CAW look like a bunch of retards for thinking from the Dark Ages... If Ford is not willing to promise to keep STAP open no matter what... is there a choice? Is this a Game? damned right it is... Fact remains we could all come up with a contract to work for Minimum wage and no Bennies and they could still close STAP... We can bitch and argue back and forth forever... We don't have the answers, we will never have the answers (Where are you Wizard?!) and we're fucked if we vote yes, fucked if we vote no... Can we at least agree on one thing? The Industry? Fucked Ford? Fucked CAW? Fucked STAP + Windor? Fucked (refering to everything that has been lost, not the peanuts they've been "promised") OAC? Who the hell knows... one thing is for sure SOMEone wants to build cars there for some reason... and don't talk to me about the Flex'ing... wouldn't take Ford 2 months to rip if out and move it down the road to wherever the hell they wanted (even if its just a warehouse somewhere in say, St.Thomas) ... so be wary Ladies and Gentlemen... No plant is safe, not here, Not in the US, not in Hermisillo, don't think for 2 seconds that most people really give a shit where their cars are built... Vote for Yourself, vote for your brothers and sisters... vote for your family... STAP is Dead if the company says it is, Concessions or no... We all know the property is worthless... Company writes our paycheque's... Do you REALLY think we have any power to tell them what to do?? Every STAP'r knows the quality we have produced with little/no investment... 2 major robot lines that are 20+ years old!! (w/original robots, not upgraded over time) We have nothing else to prove... Company makes a MINT off of us and our profits are used to fund every other platform out there... Yeah I know, I wander... ADD's a bitch oh... I forgot... Ed? Fucked Nice post.......I agree no one is safe right now and that's why Ford has us all bent over. You're right, Ford isn't going back to the table if this gets turned down. And it wouldn't take 2 months to clear OAC. Everything in Body is on skids already, that are bolted to the floor....cut cut cut goodbye. I deal with ADHD every day....lol I don't care .. I just want to put my time in to get my pension. You and me both....just trying to get to the finish line. Edited November 1, 2009 by guilt trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapworker Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I have never been embarassed to be a CAW member until today. But don't worry though, fluenza is feeling our pain. F.U. you bastard!! Yes he was as he went for a Prime Rib dinner on our due's and we where left to live with the foul taste in our mouth's from all the shit he was feeding us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxrun Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 WOW guys from STAP are pissed and who can blame them. Asking a guy to dig his own grave is just messed up even if you offer him the best casket and tombstone in the graveyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN007 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 WOW! Look at the shit we are ALL in. I would first like to send my best wishes to everyone at STAP. This is going to be tuff for most of you, and I wish this situation on nobody. Here is hoping that you and your family's all come out of this okay 5, 10, 20 years down the road. In fact, I hope this for all of us. You know, coming right from high school into OAP, I had no idea of how the real world turned.... hell, I was just a kid. My first few years at Ford I bought into the CAW and "towed the line". "Brothers and Sisters" was something I believed in and thought all of us did. But slowly as 2 years turned to 5 years, I was realizing that most people on the floor were there for themselves. I sat and watched petty situations being handled like we were a bunch of school kids, lazy workers doing what ever it took to do as little as possible day to day for $30.00 an hour. Slowly that mentality would work it's was into others sick of being the stepping stone because they did their jobs. I watched my union that pumped it's political views on me turn on a dime and cut it political line and do a 360 on it's views... asking me to do the same. You know how many rules I have seen broken by our local over the last 4 years. IT'S A JOKE. A seniority date is supposed to mean something, you fall into a position in line and when you are higher in line you are better off for job bidding and such. HA! Now, what do you do in these situations? Do you go ahead and crack open the egg, make it known and get red flagged by the union hoping to do right for someone? See where that gets ya. I guess my point (to get back to the issue on this thread) is that I am going to vote on what's best for me and my family. Most of us come to work to make money and enjoy our lives outside of work, time with family and friends. There is no way around the inevitability of death, and that seems to be something we are all facing here at Ford Canada. The world has changed and it's economics have with it. There is no union here to protect us. The CAW is a business run the same way as companies that have gone under in the last 2 years, and now they are trying to stay afloat. Ford is doing what ever it can right now to trim down and we are all feeling it. Life at Ford as we knew it is done, and it's shitty. I am going into all this with the mindset of what is best for ME. You might bash me for this, go ahead and do so, but from my 17 years at Oakville I see no reason to try and protect a "bother or sister" when they have historically not protected me. I apologize to some of the great people I have worked with and reps I have had over the years, but unfortunately you have been the minority and majority rules. This is sad to say, but I am so sick of this shit part of me wishes they would just close the place. Let us know we are done in 2012 or 2015, go back home to the U.S. and make Obama proud. Give us time to prepare for the future (which is the only positive I can see in this situation) and move the hell on before we all expire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rt2525 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Nice post.......I agree no one is safe right now and that's why Ford has us all bent over. You're right, Ford isn't going back to the table if this gets turned down.And it wouldn't take 2 months to clear OAC. Everything in Body is on skids already, that are bolted to the floor....cut cut cut goodbye. I deal with ADHD every day....lol You and me both....just trying to get to the finish line. X 3 Feels like we're at a fork in the road and niether gets us to where we want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 OAC? Who the hell knows... one thing is for sure SOMEone wants to build cars there for some reason... This is what gets me. Ford's internal rankings come out, and Oakville is once again at the bottom of everything. They've already been told to pull their socks up or Chicago will be getting a lot more work. Everyone who has ever stepped foot in there has coming out shaking their head at what goes on. At the same time, with no investment, and not much hope, STAP still remains as one of Ford's finest plants for quality, productivity and profitability. So did Ford choose Oakville over St Thomas, or did the CAW? Because we all know a few years ago when it came time to investing in a Canadian facility, the CAW was fighting for Oakville. And we all just saw how easily the bent over in this negotiation. and don't talk to me about the Flex'ing... wouldn't take Ford 2 months to rip if out and move it down the road to wherever the hell they wanted (even if its just a warehouse somewhere in say, St.Thomas) Ford isn't going to be the first company to move out of Canada (they might not be the last either, but they won't be the first). The CAW knows no matter what, there will be an assembly plant with Ford's name on it here. So the CAW is willing to throw STAP under the bus and agree to letting the plant close in two years, hope the quality and productivity falls off, to lose the clear advantage STAP has over OAC, get the doors bolted shut, and OAC biggest competitor is gone. Who cares if now 1,600 members in St Thomas now despise the CAW, they're gone. But the members in Oakville think the CAW is grand, and will bow to Lewenza's feet every he walks past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 The CAW is a business run the same way as companies that have gone under in the last 2 years, and now they are trying to stay afloat. +1 Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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