Kev-Mo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Kev...if you know what you are doing and do some preliminary research its a REALLY easy process....I bought my Acura in 15 minutes, Mini in 1/2 an hour.....Bike took 3 hours over the net....can be as simple or dis-tasteful as you wish it to be.....the ONLY issue is finding the right person you wish to do business with....and guess what...THAT equation denotes ANY form of business...not just cars.... Knowing that there are some here that do this honorably for a living (Dean, Chief) I did not intend to make my post personal against dealers. I personally do not like the dealership experience and I have honestly stated that. I think the current Realtor business model is even worse. The real meaning of my post was to stress that all businesses must change and evolve. Rate of change is accelerating across all businesses. Anyone who thinks they will be doing things the same way in 2-3 years as they are doing it now is fooling themselves. This includes me, and I do not work in the auto industry. Think about it this way – Alan Mulally is a hero for turning Ford Motor Company on its ear and making DRASTIC across the board changes, yet the dealership experience stays the same? That doesn’t make sense. Why should one half of the auto industry be required to literally re-invent itself, while the other half remains the same? I can’t tell you how it will change, but I assure you that the way cars are sold will indeed change, just as my job will. Especially during a recession, all businesses, big and small should be looking for ways to improve their efficiency, and service to customers. No idea is too big or too small. The moral of the story: Never say never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Knowing that there are some here that do this honorably for a living (Dean, Chief) I did not intend to make my post personal against dealers. I personally do not like the dealership experience and I have honestly stated that. I think the current Realtor business model is even worse. The real meaning of my post was to stress that all businesses must change and evolve. Rate of change is accelerating across all businesses. Anyone who thinks they will be doing things the same way in 2-3 years as they are doing it now is fooling themselves. This includes me, and I do not work in the auto industry. Think about it this way – Alan Mulally is a hero for turning Ford Motor Company on its ear and making DRASTIC across the board changes, yet the dealership experience stays the same? That doesn’t make sense. Why should one half of the auto industry be required to literally re-invent itself, while the other half remains the same? I can’t tell you how it will change, but I assure you that the way cars are sold will indeed change, just as my job will. Especially during a recession, all businesses, big and small should be looking for ways to improve their efficiency, and service to customers. No idea is too big or too small. The moral of the story: Never say never. Kev I didnt take offense, I just think it is mis-guided....we NEED people in transactions...THEY make the difference...the better the person is to deal with the more pleasurable the experience ( please no porno segues ) surround yourself with good people and any transaction can be pleasurable, but TAKE AWAY human interaction for fear of a bad experience signal's lack of patience and perserverance...remember YOU are in the driving seat...you HAVE the same option of walking away as you do of adding someone to your ignore list. Find the right people to deal with....hell, I have refused service to customers, theres the other side right there...there is ZERO tolerence of rude-ness and/ or abuse...I got into this business because of a passion for both people and vehicles....like any there are some bad eggs...thank god that is a small %....and FYI...our dealer is the TOP rated by the BBB in our area....its ALL about the people....BOTH sides need to be able to compromise and be flexible... Edited November 25, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Fiesta at the blue ball: http://www.fordclassic.ca/fiesta/#/Studio Edited November 26, 2009 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Anyone who thinks they will be doing things the same way in 2-3 years as they are doing it now is fooling themselves. And anyone who thinks that dealer franchise laws will allow direct to consumer sales within the next 2-3 years is fooling themselves. I'm a programmer/designer by profession and I've learned through trial and error that you can't streamline a process until you understand it. And only after you understand it can you make a qualified decision about where and how to streamline it. The purchase process is reasonably well streamlined as is. The motivations and the ethics of some of the participants in the process may be open to question, but the process itself is about as simple as you're going to get it. The sole innovation I could see would be an online transaction mediated by a dealership; where you would place an order and obtain financing online, rather than in the dealership, and I could see a small discount in financing and/or price accompanying the deal. We may see -that- within the next 5 years, provided the very significant identity theft concerns are overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 While I would never subscribe to buying a car on the internet in a home shopping styled model, there must be a way of refining what Ford are already doing in North America to make it better. Maybe interactive internet polling of what types of vehicles and option combinations surfers are interested in and perhaps the availability of vehicles at certain dealers so buyers can go for a test. I'm sure Ford does something like this already, so how can it be made better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 true...but a lot of customers have lied on their applications, about the condition of their trade ins and their ability to foot the bill....ever heard of a repo?....two sides Noah..... maybe you forgot who it was who posted a story about a dealer getting ripped off? But... Remind me again how much the DEALER loses if the LENDER repo's a customer's car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Pleased to see that this topic produced some good thinkin'. Lets define "dealer", "franchise", and how we value the "experience". RJ has nailed the legal issue, so lets think of ways around that. Dealer swaps (fourth layer?), lot shifts (the up sell), add-ons, and the need to make it personal for the kids in question. Dean? Is the traffic a means to an end? Service is everything these days right? I don't see the shark model these days, as in, the outlier being the target; I saw my sales person do the lure method. "Rather not do this for real, huh? If I can make this easy for YOU, let me. ..." For the target demo, this might just be the biggest personal purchase they ever make. Mom and Dad, or some other entity will take all this sweat equity and make it go all away...? (note, to this demo, sweat equity is reading all those web pages, and clicking away all those over bold pop up flash ads...) I can't help but think that the new path is young to old instead of the old way round, from top down...from what I have seen, the kids have a better credit rating than their parents, let alone the state... Can you imagine buying a car alone these days? Without all your support in place? You picked it based on social standing, three or more helpful online credit people, un-admitted lifestyle coaches, and occasionally even your parents. No one, not even the sales people, want to see you ripped off, right? And these kids are being (from their perspective) FORCED into personal transport, cause the options are just not there. They want to take the bus, they want someone to pick them up, and on and on... Ford is first up to try and really turn a profit on a crap box, the Honda default is not an option, that of, "not being them". I just went back and read the first couple of posts, and thought about process and product. The target Fiesta customer is who? And they have a need for? And they have done? critical question... And they, for the first time in their coddled lives, WANT SOMETHING THEY MIGHT NOT GET? A first time new car buyer doesn't want the overhead, they want a yes that opens a new door to a world they haven't been allowed to look at (as opposed to peek again and again) at yet. Not only is this a new car, this is a new way of thinking about how they see their place in the world, and how they can get from there to over there. There being subject to whim of course. Not their fault, not their choice, not not not...even when they have been enabled at every possible turn to not make a bad choice. I honestly believe this market has never seen the consequence of a really bad choice in the first person, and yet they take it on faith that they will. How does a simple car change that? Good stuff team blue oval. More required. Please! :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy09 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 1) Besides the cost of lobbying, what would be your argument in favor of revoking any state's numerous franchise laws? How would you, the mfr, respond when the NADA and the local lobbying agency put out press releases like: "FORD PROPOSAL WILL DAMAGE SMALL TOWN ECONOMIES" "FORD PROPOSAL WOULD ELIMINATE 15,000 JOBS" "LITTLE LEAGUES, HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETICS AFFECTED BY FORD PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE DEALERS" Aside from the huge cost of lobbying, aside from the grassroots PR nightmare, you have the gigantic logistical costs associated with setting up a means of selling and delivering a $30,000 object via a direct sales channel. 2) You wouldn't save a 'few thousand dollars' For those press releases, I'm sure the PR geniuses could come up with something clever. Not to mention I'd doubt few "small town economies" would be damaged by a few dealers closing. Sure hasn't hurt Chrysler or GM. We're talking a dealer here who may employ less than 100 rather than a steel mill which could employ thousands. And they would still need places to service the cars, perform marketing, etc. Turn the dealers into test drive and service centers. Pay $50 to drive all the Fords per day. Order here or online. Just because they don't sell cars doesn't mean they will close. Maybe I'm just not the typical car buyer. But if a dealer can sell a car at invoice and still make 1-3% on it (which could be thousands). If a car company can sell a car to a dealer at that price, there's still some fat that can be trimmed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy09 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 ok, lets get clinical...say you buy a vehicle X-plan over the net....car has to get shipped..$....then car has to be delivered....$....YOU have to do your OWN DMV work...time and ...you guessed it....$.....taxes would have to be handled since they are different every state...theres more time researching and handling THAt issue, but your time is endless and obviously worthless...and all this time, the HORRIBLE dealership has been doing all this for your lazy asses and you still bleat...INGRATES.....lol....so go ahead, lobby, obviously you do not mind potentially paying MORE for obviously MORE inconveinience for tasks you have taken for granted for YEARS.....and then there is of course serviceing the vehicles...oh yeah....call the web....they OBVIOUSLY have a vested interest....just like Kelly Blue Book buying all those trade ins.....truth be told gentlemen...you have NO idea how convenient car buying has become BECAUSE of the exact reasons you are complaining about..... Maybe we have it easy here in PA but when I did just what you suggest with my first car it wasn't that bad. Bought it from out of state. Paid the dealer the price less their fees and tax. Brought it home. Went to the messenger service with the paperwork after work. They told me I needed the Certificate of Origin. Called the dealer and they had it straightened out with Ford Credit. Paid the messenger the tax, fees and it was done. I think the total time was about 2 hours. The last car I also bought out of state. Dealer did everything and Fedex'ed me the registration. Again, turn the dealers into the service and test drive centers. Personally I don't care either way. The process doesn't bother me as I have no qualms about walking out and searching for that dealer that will sell me what I want at a reasonable price. I just do it in a professional and courteous manner unless they get nasty. Then I get nasty too. It has worked out for me and I've gotten some great deals. I won't discuss the value of my time but let's just say this - I've always come out ahead when factoring it in. Unless you're making $100/hr even spending 10 hours to save $1k you're coming out ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 A lot of people have been ripped off by dealerships. :P Exactly! That's the point, ONE is not better than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 maybe you forgot who it was who posted a story about a dealer getting ripped off? But... Remind me again how much the DEALER loses if the LENDER repo's a customer's car? actually the DEALER can get hurt a lot worse...say a BAD check forces the repo of a vehicle BEFORE funding...guess what...used car RS...depreciation and a brand new USED car probably inelegible for subveened financing and/ or rebates.....get it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) oh, and we cannot get funded on a lease until the CUSTOMER adds the vehicle to insurance...... Edited November 27, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Turn the dealers into test drive and service centers. So in addition to spending millions of dollars to overturn franchise laws, in addition to taking huge PR hits for closing dealerships, your idea is that Ford should also spend millions of dollars on property acquisition from the business owners it has displaced? Here's something to chew on. It cost GM $1B to close Oldsmobile. ONE BILLION DOLLARS IN PAYMENTS TO DEALERS. Now if you think it would be cheap and easy to circumvent 4,000 FLM dealers......... Conservatively, conservatively, it would cost several billion dollars to do this. And there's not as much fat as you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) So in addition to spending millions of dollars to overturn franchise laws, in addition to taking huge PR hits for closing dealerships, your idea is that Ford should also spend millions of dollars on property acquisition from the business owners it has displaced? Here's something to chew on. It cost GM $1B to close Oldsmobile. ONE BILLION DOLLARS IN PAYMENTS TO DEALERS. Now if you think it would be cheap and easy to circumvent 4,000 FLM dealers......... Conservatively, conservatively, it would cost several billion dollars to do this. And there's not as much fat as you think. but Rich its all about saving the CONSUMERS a few bucks, screw the BILLIONS it would cost the manufacturer, they would just RAISE the selling prices to counter the loss...and hey, we would be HAPPY just to be test drive centers,, course we would also CHARGE for THAT privilidege as well...........seriously, people take dealers for granted as a service for THEM right now....its one hell of a conveinience, love em or hate em....and ultimately saves the Consumers more than any web based buying service.... Edited November 27, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Ford is first up to try and really turn a profit on a crap box, the Honda default is not an option, that of, "not being them". I just went back and read the first couple of posts, and thought about process and product. The target Fiesta customer is who? And they have a need for? And they have done? A first time new car buyer doesn't want the overhead, they want a yes that opens a new door to a world they haven't been allowed to look at (as opposed to peek again and again) at yet. How does a simple car change that? Not a great fan of FWD cars myself or crap boxes like you call them, the Fiesta is appealing to all age groups and it sells its self Deanh won't have to turn on to much charm. Most reports on TV motoring shows in the UK seem to be saying the the same thing Ford haved ditched bland dull boring styling with the new Fiesta and its the biggest single factor in the Fiesta's sales success in Europe. Fifth Gear the UK's second best motoring TV show gives the Fiesta another glowing report, gotta say l think this is going to be a massive hit Stateside. Fifth Gear - Fords new Fiesta. LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Not a great fan of FWD cars myself or crap boxes like you call them, the Fiesta is appealing to all age groups and it sells its self Deanh won't have to turn on to much charm. Most reports on TV motoring shows in the UK seem to be saying the the same thing Ford haved ditched bland dull boring styling with the new Fiesta and its the biggest single factor in the Fiesta's sales success in Europe. Fifth Gear the UK's second best motoring TV show gives the Fiesta another glowing report, gotta say l think this is going to be a massive hit Stateside. Fifth Gear - Fords new Fiesta. LINK great link Jells...cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 IIRC, that's without the Ford/Getrag DSG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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