Its Time to give" Long Term Temps" their Seniority!!!

[uawfactoryrat]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but working on the line and not being able to use all my seniority is getting pretty dam old! All because the people in office don't want to piss off all the low seniority people and lose their votes. Well fair is fair. If it was you , you would want all your seniority.I have 3 times the time as everyone around me but I have one day less than the lowest person in the plant.So effectively making sure that I don't get any postings for better jobs. There are allot of people with over 20 years like myself, and only being able to use 5 . Think how happy you would be if it was you. The UAW is based on seniority, and they agree to let his happen????? It wouldn't make that much difference if I got to use my time for the 1 to 3 years I will be at my current location.

 

All I know is if they wont change it at plant level making it fair, I will do all that I can to make sure all in office are swept out at the next election.

 

I may sound bitter, but this is CRAP!

 

Tell me what I'm asking is too much.

Edited January 2, 2010 by uawfactoryrat

[wildosvt]

So your trying to say that International had nothing to do with it?

[toolmandano]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but working on the line and not being able to use all my seniority is getting pretty dam old! All because the people in office don't want to piss off all the low seniority people and lose their votes. Well fair is fair. If it was you , you would want all your seniority.I have 3 times the time as everyone around me but I have one day less than the lowest person in the plant.So effectively making sure that I don't get any postings for better jobs. There are allot of people with over 20 years like myself, and only being able to use 5 . Think how happy you would be if it was you. The UAW is based on seniority, and they agree to let his happen????? It wouldn't make that much difference if I got to use my time for the 1 to 3 years I will be at my current location.

 

All I know is if they wont change it at plant level making it fair, I will do all that I can to make sure all in office are swept out at the next election.

 

I may sound bitter, but this is CRAP!

 

Tell me what I'm asking is too much.

 

Sounds to me like you are right on par. Lets see......Ford eliminated the work that would have kept us in our trade, and the union allowed it to happen. They treat us as if this was our doing. Since they couldnt scare us into taking a buyout, perhaps this is their way of handing down a punishment. Seems like since we voted in the COA (competitive operating agreement), we have been in a free falling free for all. Might I add the union shoved that down our throat like this past bullshit they tried to get passed. The company and the union both have pulled out all the stops and left all of us skilled trades with chapped asses.

Do I think you are asking too much? Hell no, giving us our seniority is the very least that we are owed. Yes, OWED. I know some members dont believe the company owes us anything. As tradesmen we hired in from the street, or moved up from production. Not without sacrifice might I add. We were given a promissory note of a job if you will, when we accepted and were hired as a tradesman. Since the company decided to eliminate our work, does that mean they can eliminate their intent for hiring us?

You,I, or we, are not asking for the world here, give us our seniority!! Keep the pay difference if you have to, but give us our seniority!!

[Captain723]

Sounds to me like you are right on par. Lets see......Ford eliminated the work that would have kept us in our trade, and the union allowed it to happen. They treat us as if this was our doing. Since they couldnt scare us into taking a buyout, perhaps this is their way of handing down a punishment. Seems like since we voted in the COA (competitive operating agreement), we have been in a free falling free for all. Might I add the union shoved that down our throat like this past bullshit they tried to get passed. The company and the union both have pulled out all the stops and left all of us skilled trades with chapped asses.

Do I think you are asking too much? Hell no, giving us our seniority is the very least that we are owed. Yes, OWED. I know some members dont believe the company owes us anything. As tradesmen we hired in from the street, or moved up from production. Not without sacrifice might I add. We were given a promissory note of a job if you will, when we accepted and were hired as a tradesman. Since the company decided to eliminate our work, does that mean they can eliminate their intent for hiring us?

You,I, or we, are not asking for the world here, give us our seniority!! Keep the pay difference if you have to, but give us our seniority!!

Don't want to be a butt head, but was this thread started on ACH seniority issue or trades issue? Skilled issue, not going to happen because it would violate others members seniority.....if I come from the apprenticeship, can I use my entire Ford seniority?? Unless the language changes it will violate seniority rights. I know you are drustrated, but there would be a lot of us upset if you were bumping someone with no production time. Sorry, it works both ways.

[toolmandano]

Don't want to be a butt head, but was this thread started on ACH seniority issue or trades issue? Skilled issue, not going to happen because it would violate others members seniority.....if I come from the apprenticeship, can I use my entire Ford seniority?? Unless the language changes it will violate seniority rights. I know you are drustrated, but there would be a lot of us upset if you were bumping someone with no production time. Sorry, it works both ways.

 

 

I see your point, and under normal circumstances you would be right. However, when the company and union blatantly turn a blind eye to issues that violate the contract, and have sent us into uncharted territory, the lines that once were clear have been eroded. I'm not sure what plant you work at, but at DTP. one has to ask.....what union......what contract? From what I have seen on this forum, its not isolated to DTP, its all over. Once the flood gates were opened for change, the rule book was thrown out, unless of course its something that benefits a union official or one of their cronies.

[lquidspine]

I see your point, and under normal circumstances you would be right. However, when the company and union blatantly turn a blind eye to issues that violate the contract, and have sent us into uncharted territory, the lines that once were clear have been eroded. I'm not sure what plant you work at, but at DTP. one has to ask.....what union......what contract? From what I have seen on this forum, its not isolated to DTP, its all over. Once the flood gates were opened for change, the rule book was thrown out, unless of course its something that benefits a union official or one of their cronies.

This goes both ways for me, at one end I see your point on the other end I see people that have actually worked a line job for 10, 15 or more years. The person that has worked the line all of their time has had a lot more wear and tear on their bodies, the same can not be said for someone that has worked in the trades for the same amount of time(all of their time with the company).

 

I understand getting an entry level job assignment with some seniority would suck as well, your body would not adjust as well as most that hire in usually in their 20's.

 

But from what I have seen from the trades that where forced to production at DTP they have not been given hard jobs on the line. Most drive off the CAL line or do campaigns a job that they might work all day or they might not have to do one job all day.

 

The Body Shop has gone as far as to give at least one former trades person from the Pilot Plant a fitter job (classified job) as well as they have placed several new people to the Body Shop on days, even though they did not have the seniority for days.

 

So the unjust treatment you talk about does happen but far less than you are suggesting, I can not speak with 100% accuracy but my guess is it is the same at most locations.

[toolmandano]

This goes both ways for me, at one end I see your point on the other end I see people that have actually worked a line job for 10, 15 or more years. The person that has worked the line all of their time has had a lot more wear and tear on their bodies, the same can not be said for someone that has worked in the trades for the same amount of time(all of their time with the company).

 

I understand getting an entry level job assignment with some seniority would suck as well, your body would not adjust as well as most that hire in usually in their 20's.

 

But from what I have seen from the trades that where forced to production at DTP they have not been given hard jobs on the line. Most drive off the CAL line or do campaigns a job that they might work all day or they might not have to do one job all day.

 

The Body Shop has gone as far as to give at least one former trades person from the Pilot Plant a fitter job (classified job) as well as they have placed several new people to the Body Shop on days, even though they did not have the seniority for days.

 

So the unjust treatment you talk about does happen but far less than you are suggesting, I can not speak with 100% accuracy but my guess is it is the same at most locations.

 

Do I think that this is fair to any of us? No. The point that you made about the wear and tear on the body of a brother or sister that has always been on the line is understood. Preferential treatment for trades.......yes I do know that happens , usually because they cant find anything they can do. There again I have seen that for non trades workers as well. The majority of us try hard and have adjusted fairly well I think. "C" shift SUCKS!!!!! Thats my biggest bitch. If this is my fate to be on the line, so be it, just give me my seniority.

[toolmandano]

Don't want to be a butt head, but was this thread started on ACH seniority issue or trades issue? Skilled issue, not going to happen because it would violate others members seniority.....if I come from the apprenticeship, can I use my entire Ford seniority?? Unless the language changes it will violate seniority rights. I know you are drustrated, but there would be a lot of us upset if you were bumping someone with no production time. Sorry, it works both ways.

 

Your right Captain, we did high-jack this thread. Apologies, if this issue continues to draw comments we can start a new thread.

[Captain723]

Your right Captain, we did high-jack this thread. Apologies, if this issue continues to draw comments we can start a new thread.

LOL.....happens all the time! I just didn't know which seniority issue was raised!!

[lquidspine]

LOL.....happens all the time! I just didn't know which seniority issue was raised!!

I would like to know as well Captain, I responded to a post but i think the original poster is talking about the Temp assignments.

 

Sorry if I am cold to the situation, I am typically of the belief that seniority rules all, but these people knew (should have known) what the rules where when they went to the ACH plants for the temp jobs. So I really don't have much sympathy there. You can not have your cake and eat it too.

[uawfactoryrat]

I would like to know as well Captain, I responded to a post but i think the original poster is talking about the Temp assignments.

 

Sorry if I am cold to the situation, I am typically of the belief that seniority rules all, but these people knew (should have known) what the rules where when they went to the ACH plants for the temp jobs. So I really don't have much sympathy there. You can not have your cake and eat it too.

Im not talking about ACH. I have my time from the line, then I took the test which all could take and scored high enough to make the list. I am now at an assembly plant by my choice to go back on the line. BUT, I was not given all my time , time that is twice as long with the company as others around me. It doesn't matter that I was from trades, and from the line before that. If I am production classified I should come in at 1984 or less. It doesn't matter that I was off the line as trades. If someone was a cleaner for ten years and their job is eliminated does that mean they were off the line and their time off the line should not matter because of wear and tear??If someone is elected to an office should their time freeze till they come back.

 

What is comes down to, people are haters of trades because they get more money, and it seems do nothing. Let me tell you, I went to school for three years, and trained on the job during that time. I earned what I have. I risked getting hurt or killed every time I went to work, would you like to work 40 feet of the ground? Not complaining, It was my choice. But are you telling me its not fair to be able for me to use all my time??? I hear DTP got allot of trades, I know a few there. I can tell you they have all sorts of jobs, not easy ones.

 

I think giving all the people their time is the least they could do. Production time is based on company time, trades is based on trades entry date.There is no grey area.

 

If they dont want me to be a permanent employee, fine. But I pay dues, and the dues go to the local.I can vote, pay dues, and from I see can even run for office because there is no language saying I cant. But I cant use all my time??

 

I suggest that all Long term temps run for an elected office.Dont listen when they say you cant. They can change it or we can.

 

I truely beleive the the International is doing a good job . We are all working, and that is the bottom line. And I am thankfull.

 

The only people this would affect is the local polititions. So I think this was done to make them happy.

Edited January 2, 2010 by uawfactoryrat

[lquidspine]

Im not talking about ACH. I have my time from the line, then I took the test which all could take and scored high enough to make the list. I am now at an assembly plant by my choice to go back on the line. BUT, I was not given all my time , time that is twice as long with the company as others around me. It doesn't matter that I was from trades, and from the line before that. If I am production classified I should come in at 1984 or less. It doesn't matter that I was off the line as trades. If someone was a cleaner for ten years and their job is eliminated does that mean they were off the line and their time off the line should not matter because of wear and tear??If someone is elected to an office should their time freeze till they come back.

 

What is comes down to, people are haters of trades because they get more money, and it seems do nothing. Let me tell you, I went to school for three years, and trained on the job during that time. I earned what I have. I risked getting hurt or killed every time I went to work, would you like to work 40 feet of the ground? Not complaining, It was my choice. But are you telling me its not fair to be able for me to use all my time??? I hear DTP got allot of trades, I know a few there. I can tell you they have all sorts of jobs, not easy ones.

 

I think giving all the people their time is the least they could do. Production time is based on company time, trades is based on trades entry date.There is no grey area.

 

If they dont want me to be a permanent employee, fine. But I pay dues, and the dues go to the local.I can vote, pay dues, and from I see can even run for office because there is no language saying I cant. But I cant use all my time??

 

I suggest that all Long term temps run for an elected office.Dont listen when they say you cant. They can change it or we can.

 

I truely beleive the the International is doing a good job . We are all working, and that is the bottom line. And I am thankfull.

 

The only people this would affect is the local polititions. So I think this was done to make them happy.

I like to rock climb , repel and skydive so working 40 feet in the air would be right up my alley.

 

I agree your time should count for certain things like bumps and such right away, but I am happy that local leadership years back added the language prohibiting newly transferred people to getting classified jobs for the first 90 days they are at the facility.

 

Nope I did not care much for it when I first transferred to Dearborn, but in the long run it is the right thing for those that know each facility and the day to day operations.

 

I seriously thought those that hired in to the line got their seniority from when they started, thought for sure it was just the trades people that hired directly into the trades that got the new date plus 1.

 

The last paragraph i believe in firmly, sorry if some do not like that. But just as someone can not move strait to the top of the pyramid in trades neither should they be allowed to move strait to the top of production without putting in their time.

 

For every trades hater from production there are just as many in the trades that feel superior to production workers because of their trade or former trade status.... just so we clear that up.

 

In your situation you should have all of your time by all rights that is an issue I would take up with local leadership and if the answers are not to your liking I would move up the correct chain until you reach international (if necessary). Please report back any information you get back as I am curious now how this works myself.

[Captain723]

Im not talking about ACH. I have my time from the line, then I took the test which all could take and scored high enough to make the list. I am now at an assembly plant by my choice to go back on the line. BUT, I was not given all my time , time that is twice as long with the company as others around me. It doesn't matter that I was from trades, and from the line before that. If I am production classified I should come in at 1984 or less. It doesn't matter that I was off the line as trades. If someone was a cleaner for ten years and their job is eliminated does that mean they were off the line and their time off the line should not matter because of wear and tear??If someone is elected to an office should their time freeze till they come back.

 

What is comes down to, people are haters of trades because they get more money, and it seems do nothing. Let me tell you, I went to school for three years, and trained on the job during that time. I earned what I have. I risked getting hurt or killed every time I went to work, would you like to work 40 feet of the ground? Not complaining, It was my choice. But are you telling me its not fair to be able for me to use all my time??? I hear DTP got allot of trades, I know a few there. I can tell you they have all sorts of jobs, not easy ones.

 

I think giving all the people their time is the least they could do. Production time is based on company time, trades is based on trades entry date.There is no grey area.

 

If they dont want me to be a permanent employee, fine. But I pay dues, and the dues go to the local.I can vote, pay dues, and from I see can even run for office because there is no language saying I cant. But I cant use all my time??

 

I suggest that all Long term temps run for an elected office.Dont listen when they say you cant. They can change it or we can.

 

I truely beleive the the International is doing a good job . We are all working, and that is the bottom line. And I am thankfull.

 

The only people this would affect is the local polititions. So I think this was done to make them happy.

The other question would be are you on one of those temp positions, where some other members went to ACH on temp openings? If you are in a temp position this is a whole other situation!

[400member]

The other question would be are you on one of those temp positions, where some other members went to ACH on temp openings? If you are in a temp position this is a whole other situation!

 

Solidarity right cap...where we are all equal...right cap. or does it depend on who you are who you know or what you are or what color (blue/orange/ach) you are....

[udontkno]

I agree seniority is seniority, if a skilled trade with 20 years has to go to the line to keep a job with Ford, they should have 20 years seniority with Ford. Additionally, if a line worker with 20 years goes into the trade at Ford they should carry all of their time into the trade. Thus a tradesman hired off of the street that was working 10 years would have less time then a 20 year line worker that goes into the same trade. Fair is fair and seniority is a way to base ones loyalty to a company or how much of their life they have sacrificed at Ford. It really doesnt matter if the time was production or trade, they are both union positions and are time served to the company! Lets see if we can get this changed next contract.

[fordworker]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but working on the line and not being able to use all my seniority is getting pretty dam old! All because the people in office don't want to piss off all the low seniority people and lose their votes. Well fair is fair. If it was you , you would want all your seniority.I have 3 times the time as everyone around me but I have one day less than the lowest person in the plant.So effectively making sure that I don't get any postings for better jobs. There are allot of people with over 20 years like myself, and only being able to use 5 . Think how happy you would be if it was you. The UAW is based on seniority, and they agree to let his happen????? It wouldn't make that much difference if I got to use my time for the 1 to 3 years I will be at my current location.

 

All I know is if they wont change it at plant level making it fair, I will do all that I can to make sure all in office are swept out at the next election.

 

I may sound bitter, but this is CRAP!

 

Tell me what I'm asking is too much.

all line jobs should be rotated....if u cant do them all then get out...

[toolmandano]

all line jobs should be rotated....if u cant do them all then get out...

 

Wow!! I hope you dont represent the future mentality of management. If your not management Im sure your in their back pocket. Not everyone is built the same: physically or mentally. To ask a 100lb person do a heavy job that a 6 foot 250lb person does is ridiculous. Not everyones motor skills are the same either, reaction time etc. Personally, what I have been asked to do has not been a problem, not to say there isnt something out there that I would find difficult.

Be careful what you ask for, you may be the victim of your own desires.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Wow!! I hope you dont represent the future mentality of management. If your not management Im sure your in their back pocket. Not everyone is built the same: physically or mentally. To ask a 100lb person do a heavy job that a 6 foot 250lb person does is ridiculous. Not everyones motor skills are the same either, reaction time etc. Personally, what I have been asked to do has not been a problem, not to say there isnt something out there that I would find difficult.

Be careful what you ask for, you may be the victim of your own desires.

 

Ergonomics, as a science may be abused, but just think about someone doing a job on the left-hand side of a vehicle if they are right-handed versus a left-handed person placed on that job. Or consider the 5 ft. operator lifting the exhaust pipe overhead instead of someone 5 ft. 6in. or 6 ft. depending on platform height.

 

I wouldn't want my plumber doing my dental work and vice versa. Or my painter piloting the airliner I riding in.

 

The right person for the job.

[stuckindtp]

Im currently a tradesman in production at DTP and i am more concerned with the international allowing all these "temp" positions both in production and in trades there hasnt been alot of perm. positions offered in trades in the zone because they are using all these "temp" jobs all over like saline, wayne, and romeo. Why arent these jobs being opened up as perm. jobs??? And the same goes for these temp production fill ins at ACH locations used to be people off the street(which i realize is a whole other issue...lol) now these are Ford employees from all over the zone being temps and then their former positions are being offered as temp positions( to tradesmen like factoryrat im guessing) when is it all gonna end!!!! Its becoming a MESS and no one is trying is doing anything to make things better. We need to have the union stand up and stop this practice and demand perm. positions for trades and production!

[bronco1994]

Don't want to be a butt head, but was this thread started on ACH seniority issue or trades issue? Skilled issue, not going to happen because it would violate others members seniority.....if I come from the apprenticeship, can I use my entire Ford seniority?? Unless the language changes it will violate seniority rights. I know you are drustrated, but there would be a lot of us upset if you were bumping someone with no production time. Sorry, it works both ways.

 

 

You are Right Captain If the temps were to use all their seniority from their trade into production. Well then it would have to be both ways. A production worker that went into the trades and lost his or her full seniority would Have a bitch too so either leave it the way it is OR we all use our UAW hire in date which is the longest of the two.

[FiredMotorCompany]

You are Right Captain If the temps were to use all their seniority from their trade into production. Well then it would have to be both ways. A production worker that went into the trades and lost his or her full seniority would Have a bitch too so either leave it the way it is OR we all use our UAW hire in date which is the longest of the two.

 

I am starting to make a list of the issues I have had with my representation and the company. I want to review these things during the next local election cycle and will vote accordingly.

 

I am noting them on my calendar so I will see them when I have the opportunity to do something about it.

 

The reps (government, as well as UAW) expect our memories to be short and promise everything will be different NEXT time. I will not forget!

[Captain723]

Solidarity right cap...where we are all equal...right cap. or does it depend on who you are who you know or what you are or what color (blue/orange/ach) you are....

Do you know what the fk they are talking about?? I didn't start this thread butthole!

The contract is pretty clear who has and who has not seniority. There is a bit of a different spin because of the ACH thing and keeping people off the street because of the loss of JSP, but other than that it is pretty clear! So not sure what the fk you are referring too and why I am being called out in this thread, but ok....need someone to blame, I'll take it!! :shades:

[Captain723]

I am starting to make a list of the issues I have had with my representation and the company. I want to review these things during the next local election cycle and will vote accordingly.

 

I am noting them on my calendar so I will see them when I have the opportunity to do something about it.

 

The reps (government, as well as UAW) expect our memories to be short and promise everything will be different NEXT time. I will not forget!

That sounds reasonable, but don't just write down the things you issues with, why not write down all the major issues and think about the entire local membership and then think about what the contract says and how it is implied locally. Thats what you should do, not vote for someone because they are your friend, but vote for them for the ability to make tough decisions on things that may make people unhappy, but contractually or morally they are the right thing to do. Just my opinion and I am sure someone will have something smart ass to say, but again, I am fine with everyones opinion and I am pretty thick skinned and have no problem speaking my mind as everyone on this site knows!! Anyway, back to the grindstone tomorrow. Seems like the time off is never enough or too much....never just right!

[rn4]

Do you know what the fk they are talking about?? I didn't start this thread butthole!

The contract is pretty clear who has and who has not seniority. There is a bit of a different spin because of the ACH thing and keeping people off the street because of the loss of JSP, but other than that it is pretty clear! So not sure what the fk you are referring too and why I am being called out in this thread, but ok....need someone to blame, I'll take it!! :shades:

Try to keep the New Years resolution your bordering on breaking it.

Edited January 4, 2010 by rn4

[whereswaldo]

The only people this would affect is the local polititions. So I think this was done to make them happy.

BINGO !!!!!!!