The new PI will be...a Taurus???

[T'Cal]

Most agencies can barely afford pencils right now. Stocking up on additional vehicles isn;t goinbg to happen.

True, however, one suburban Chicago agency is laying off officers but stock piling CVPIs. Two officers will be fired but they are buying 17 Ford squads!

Edited March 31, 2010 by T'Cal

[rscalzo]

True, however, one suburban Chicago agency is laying off officers but stock piling CVPIs. Two officers will be fired but they are buyinyg Ford 17 squads!

 

Every department here in NJ is faced with cutbacks and layoffs. Buying new vehicles is the last thing they are thinking about at the moment. Trenton just announced 120 being let go.

[T'Cal]

Every department here in NJ is faced with cutbacks and layoffs. Buying new vehicles is the last thing they are thinking about at the moment. Trenton just announced 120 being let go.

These are dark times, my brother. Darker than we've ever seen. I have just under 8 years to go and I pray that we will rebound before I leave as I'd like to leave on a high note.

[rscalzo]

These are dark times, my brother. Darker than we've ever seen. I have just under 8 years to go and I pray that we will rebound before I leave as I'd like to leave on a high note.

 

I got out after thirty about five years ago. but I stay current with the department and stay involved. At least we look secure but many around us are facing big problems with the cuts in state and federal aid. At one point we replaced the fleet over a two year period for years. Now they are lucky to a buy a few cars a year. The changeover to the Charger is almost complete.

[armadamaster]

The Panther is dead. Plain and simple. The sooner you come to terms with that the sooner you can move on.

Are you really so naive as to believe that FMC will go bankrupt the year after they close STAP? That is a laugh. The CVPI is a great car in its own right but it frankly won't meet modern day safety standards (ie Stability Control/Curtain Airbags). Granted those things can be retrofitted, however at a great cost. Then there is the whole problem that the CV has no sales outside of fleet and even that is in jeopardy as taxi fleets look to more fuel efficient models. So essentially what FMC has is the Panther platform that is so old and out of date that it shares little to no components with any other FMC vehicle. The Panthers use the 4.6 which is now being replaced (along with the 5.4) by the new 5.0 and 6.2. Combine that with the fact that the transmission is also now unique to only that vehicle. The fact that the powertrain is being phased out in the FMC lineup is further reason to cut the Panther rather than revamp it at a huge expenditure. By the time FMC would implement a new powertrain and the needed safety items you would be looking at a car that cost just as much as the new PI that is coming out, and would it be any better?

The business case behind making the new PI off the D3 is undeniably the smart thing to do economically. There is no denying that any of the D3 vehicles are safe and as robust as can be. I currently have a D3 Sable and that thing is a tank and arguably has more usable interior space than a CV or GM in my experience. The fuel efficiency is phenomenal, I regularly seeing 31 mpg on the hwy and I have AWD and I drive with a lead foot. Also in my experience the trunk is much more usable than any Panther, and that is large part because of the huge flat floor un-intruded by a spare tire. So what we have already right there in the D3 is great safety, and efficiency in both size, space and fuel consumption. So what FMC smartly decided to do from a business standpoint was PI-ify the D3. If you would have paid attention to the presentation you would have noticed that FMC smartly benchmarked the CVPI in every aspect and either met that benchmark or exceeded it. That last part is in important because that means by simple reasoning we can conclude that the new PI is going to be better than the current CVPI because it meets or exceeds the CVPI (and yes that means the 75 mph rear crash test too).

PS you probably should know this, but the Charger PI is not too reliable.

PSS the Caprice is probably going to be some stiff competition but I feel that the volume is going to be constrained being imported and all.

 

 

CAFE does away with any car larger than a Fusion at present regardless after 2016.

 

Ford is so belly up on the Taurus they HAVE to push it now. Also, it comes down to raw materials, there are more raw materials involved in making a Panther than there are in a new Taurus, and they can sell the Taurus for more. And I'd wager that the Taurus isn't as durable, so they'll be back sooner to buy another, that is the mentality.

 

That market did not go for the original FWD Taurus PI, the FWD police Lumina, or the FWD 9C1 Wimpala, or the FWD police Intrepid, they will not go for another FWD Taurus. Ford just gave away their 80% of that market.

[Fgts]

CAFE does away with any car larger than a Fusion at present regardless after 2016.

 

Ford is so belly up on the Taurus they HAVE to push it now. Also, it comes down to raw materials, there are more raw materials involved in making a Panther than there are in a new Taurus, and they can sell the Taurus for more. And I'd wager that the Taurus isn't as durable, so they'll be back sooner to buy another, that is the mentality.

 

That market did not go for the original FWD Taurus PI, the FWD police Lumina, or the FWD 9C1 Wimpala, or the FWD police Intrepid, they will not go for another FWD Taurus. Ford just gave away their 80% of that market.

 

Cars won't be that damn small in 2016, the Next Impala, XTS, Taurus, Caprice, Charger are atleast 200in long, the fleet average milage will be 39 mpg meaning Ford can sale 3,000 19 mpg Shelby Mustang as long as have 40,000 Fiestas out the door. It's alot of steel in the Taurus as the SHO/ Turbo PI weigh more then a C/V.

[stpatrick90]

CAFE does away with any car larger than a Fusion at present regardless after 2016.

 

Ford is so belly up on the Taurus they HAVE to push it now. Also, it comes down to raw materials, there are more raw materials involved in making a Panther than there are in a new Taurus, and they can sell the Taurus for more. And I'd wager that the Taurus isn't as durable, so they'll be back sooner to buy another, that is the mentality.

 

That market did not go for the original FWD Taurus PI, the FWD police Lumina, or the FWD 9C1 Wimpala, or the FWD police Intrepid, they will not go for another FWD Taurus. Ford just gave away their 80% of that market.

 

Well given the fact the current gets better gas mileage than the V6 Fusions right now makes me hesitant to believe that is the case.

 

Belly up? Hardly. Ford just knows something about economies of scale. They have 4 different vehicles currently based off the platform and soon will be adding the 5th. The more ancient the Panthers get the less they share with any other vehicle program at FMC. That means over time it is going to get more expensive to produce the Panther. Not to mention that the Panthers need major revision to meet future safety regulations and also need entirely new powertrains and you have a situation in which that platform makes no more sense whatsoever.

 

I don't know what you were watching but as has been mentioned numerous times FMC benchmarked the CVPI when designing the new PI and met or exceeded the CVPI in every regard. PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts.

I will admit though that the new PI will be arguably more difficult to service probably which will be one of its biggest draw backs but the Charger PI and new Caprice PI are also going to be more difficult to service than a CVPI too.

 

There is something that all those other FWD cars have in common though...they were just your average FWD family sedan with steel wheels and a few uprated pieces here and there with some lights thrown in to top it off. The new PI undoubtedly has more uprated and stronger pieces than any of those prior FWD examples. The new PI is also crash test rated for the 75 mph rear crash test just like the CVPI, something that no one else claims or contest. That demonstrates how serious Ford was with this effort. And remember there is always AWD available too.

 

The CVPI was a great car in its time, no one questions that. Unfortunately the world is moving in a direction that exploits the CVPI greatest weakness, its age. Nothing can last forever.

[armadamaster]

Cars won't be that damn small in 2016, the Next Impala, XTS, Taurus, Caprice, Charger are atleast 200in long, the fleet average milage will be 39 mpg meaning Ford can sale 3,000 19 mpg Shelby Mustang as long as have 40,000 Fiestas out the door. It's alot of steel in the Taurus as the SHO/ Turbo PI weigh more then a C/V.

 

Yeah, the largest car will be that small after 2016, Ford has all but said so awhile back when they were talking about an "extended length" CD3/4 being their new large car in a few more years.

[armadamaster]

Well given the fact the current gets better gas mileage than the V6 Fusions right now makes me hesitant to believe that is the case.

 

Belly up? Hardly. Ford just knows something about economies of scale. They have 4 different vehicles currently based off the platform and soon will be adding the 5th. The more ancient the Panthers get the less they share with any other vehicle program at FMC. That means over time it is going to get more expensive to produce the Panther. Not to mention that the Panthers need major revision to meet future safety regulations and also need entirely new powertrains and you have a situation in which that platform makes no more sense whatsoever.

 

Ford keeps dumping vehicles onto the D3 because they are desperate to get anything to sell off of it. I'm waiting for a D3 F-150 next. <snickers>

 

 

I don't know what you were watching but as has been mentioned numerous times FMC benchmarked the CVPI when designing the new PI and met or exceeded the CVPI in every regard. PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts.

 

GM "benchmarked" the 1996 Caprice with their new "designed from the ground up to be a police car" WImpala in 2000, how'd that work out?

 

I will admit though that the new PI will be arguably more difficult to service probably which will be one of its biggest draw backs but the Charger PI and new Caprice PI are also going to be more difficult to service than a CVPI too.

 

Unibody is inherently more difficult to service than B-O-F, which is another reason police have avoided it like the plague for the most part.

 

 

There is something that all those other FWD cars have in common though...they were just your average FWD family sedan with steel wheels and a few uprated pieces here and there with some lights thrown in to top it off. The new PI undoubtedly has more uprated and stronger pieces than any of those prior FWD examples. The new PI is also crash test rated for the 75 mph rear crash test just like the CVPI, something that no one else claims or contest. That demonstrates how serious Ford was with this effort. And remember there is always AWD available too.

 

The Panther was the average family sedan once upon a time as well. Carbon Motors will offer the first ever true "from the ground up" police car, not that I think that business model is going to take either.

 

 

The CVPI was a great car in its time, no one questions that. Unfortunately the world is moving in a direction that exploits the CVPI greatest weakness, its age. Nothing can last forever.

 

Due to who's incompetence? Ford seems to have kept up updating it's other B-O-F offerings.....well, except for the Ranger.

[stpatrick90]

Ford keeps dumping vehicles onto the D3 because they are desperate to get anything to sell off of it. I'm waiting for a D3 F-150 next. <snickers>

 

 

 

GM "benchmarked" the 1996 Caprice with their new "designed from the ground up to be a police car" WImpala in 2000, how'd that work out?

 

 

 

Unibody is inherently more difficult to service than B-O-F, which is another reason police have avoided it like the plague for the most part.

 

 

 

The Panther was the average family sedan once upon a time as well. Carbon Motors will offer the first ever true "from the ground up" police car, not that I think that business model is going to take either.

 

 

 

Due to who's incompetence? Ford seems to have kept up updating it's other B-O-F offerings.....well, except for the Ranger.

 

 

Are you that ignorant as to believe FMC is desperate with the D3 platform? Why would they have any reason to be desperate? The platform has proven to be extremely safe, capable, flexible, and reliable. The D3 is a great platform and the sooner you break your rut of insulting the better for it you will be. What is your problem with the D3? Is the only reason you hate it because in your eyes it is the nail in the Panthers coffin? Have you ever even driven a D3 car?

 

I don't know if you have ever looked at the differences between the Civilian Impala and the Impala PI. The differences between them are far and few. An upgraded cooling system, suspension components, steel wheels, and a partition don't suffice. The new PI from Ford goes much beyond all of that. Also you can't ignore the origins of the Impala platform. The W Platform dates back to 1988!!! The D3 truly only dates back to 2005 when it was reengineered from being the Volvo P2 platform. So you have the Impala's 22 year old platform going against the new PI's 5 year old platform...time truly does represent progress. Also you have to look at how flexible each platform is. The W Platform has never seen duty in anything larger than a Full-Size sedan. On the other hand the D3 is capable of underpinning Full-Size CUVs. The durability between the two platforms is astronomical. And to call the Impala PI an outright failure would be incorrect as well. The Impala wasn't ever meant to take over the industry but rather take a share of it which it did.

 

I concede that a uni-body car is harder to work on, however it isn't like the new PI will have any BOF competition....as I mentioned the Charger PI and Caprice PI are both uni-body as well. They all will be equally disadvantaged.

 

Does it matter that the CV was the average family sedan back in the 70's? You do realize that is 30 years ago. There is a reason that no other brand produces a BOF sedan anymore! It just isn't reasonable to continue to invest in a platform that is that old. Plain and simple.

 

And it isn't anyone's incompetence that the Panther hasn't been updated. The market went elsewhere. Plain and simple. As I mentioned already there is a reason that no other automaker makes a BOF sedan and don't think for a second that is because they wouldn't be able to compete with the Panther. The market for BOF sedans died a long time ago. Ford's other BOF offering are in segments that require such technology. Trucks and SUVs are inherently BOF for obvious reasons. Cars don't have to be BOF and shouldn't be and that is why the Ford has never invested in updating the Panther, not because of incompetence.

 

Stop being so bitter about this and maybe you will be able to enjoy some of the more modern vehicles out there.

 

 

[T'Cal]

I'm still convinced that the Taurus based PI will not be appealing enough to the law enforcement market for Ford to retain its majority of the market. The TPI will steal sales from the Impala but probably not many from the new Caprice or Charger. The RWD Chevy will be the big winner if GM keeps the fleet price reasonable.

Edited April 13, 2010 by T'Cal

[akirby]

Here is something that's been bugging me. Why would Ford reveal this vehicle 18 months before job 1? And why would they not make at least a token effort to change the sheetmetal - at least the front grille?

 

I think it's pretty obvious they're sandbagging the base engine. I wonder if they're sandbagging the exterior styling, too? It doesn't make sense to use the same sheetmetal and not call it a Taurus.

 

I have a suspicion we haven't seen the real PI yet.

[T'Cal]

Here is something that's been bugging me. Why would Ford reveal this vehicle 18 months before job 1? And why would they not make at least a token effort to change the sheetmetal - at least the front grille?

 

I think it's pretty obvious they're sandbagging the base engine. I wonder if they're sandbagging the exterior styling, too? It doesn't make sense to use the same sheetmetal and not call it a Taurus.

 

I have a suspicion we haven't seen the real PI yet.

I think the early lead in time is because Chevy's Caprice will be out at least a year before the Taurus PI, which will actually be a MY2013 coming out in January 2012 or so. Ford is likely concerned that it will lose its big market share to the RWD Chevy and wants to let law enforcement know early on that they think they have a viable replacement for the beloved CVPI.

 

One bit of good news for the Taurus PI is that, according to Law and Order magazine (03/10), AWD will be available with the base NA V6. Realizing that Ford would not revise the dated Panther again and that Ford would not be importing the Falcon from Australia, I resigned myself to the fact that Ford's likeliest candidate for the next gen PI was the Taurus. Accepting that (grudgingly), I had hoped Ford would at least offer AWD as an option if not make it standard. I really didn't believe that they would offer the ecoboost V6 even as an option; I was wrong. Early reports made no indication that AWD would be available on anything but the EB V6. While a FWD Taurus PI won't likely snarf up the CVPI's 75% share of the market, an AWD non-turbo version might. The ecoboost model will likely be passed up by most agencies due to higher initial cost and (at least perceived) maintenance costs.

 

My guess is by the time the Taurus PI is built, the engine will either be updated with Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing bringing horsepower up to 285 or perhaps the 3.7L 305hp V6 will make its way under the hood. Perhaps the sleeper here is the new Explorer PI. It will likely be much more popular than the only other pursuit rated SUV - the big and expensive Tahoe, which is RWD only. The EPI will offer good utility, a lower price, much better fuel economy, and superior handling. In fact, if the pricing is close, I'll bet that many agencies opt for the EPI over the TPI for the extra utility. This will be especially true for special assignments such as accident investigators, canine officers, truck enforcement officers, evidence technicians, etc.

Edited April 13, 2010 by T'Cal

[SysEng]

CAFE does away with any car larger than a Fusion at present regardless after 2016.

 

Ford is so belly up on the Taurus they HAVE to push it now....

 

... Ford just gave away their 80% of that market.

 

 

Seems to me it would be very easy for Ford to install the Escape Hybrid drive train into the "panthers" :shades: ... pretty near as is.

 

Can you say 35MPG???

 

I agree however that Ford has lost a huge chunk of the police, fleet and limo markets. THAT is pretty obvious with this move. But hey, they got a D3 Explorer :huh: coming out real soon... :do what: So we can see where this is going...

 

 

:titanic:

[Len_A]

CAFE does away with any car larger than a Fusion at present regardless after 2016.

 

Ford is so belly up on the Taurus they HAVE to push it now. Also, it comes down to raw materials, there are more raw materials involved in making a Panther than there are in a new Taurus, and they can sell the Taurus for more. And I'd wager that the Taurus isn't as durable, so they'll be back sooner to buy another, that is the mentality.

 

That market did not go for the original FWD Taurus PI, the FWD police Lumina, or the FWD 9C1 Wimpala, or the FWD police Intrepid, they will not go for another FWD Taurus. Ford just gave away their 80% of that market.

Not entirely true. Consider that the current Taurus is also a good 3 inches longer and 400 pounds heavier than the 2005 D3 Five Hundred. that shares the same chassis. There's a good probability that the 2013 PI will be even heavier, and that most of the weight over the 2005 D3 is in the chassis and suspension, and in police trim will increase it's durability. Whether that matches or exceeds the Panther remains to be seen.

 

Then also, remember that any EcoBoost D3 derived police vehicle will automatically come in all wheel drive, and no one knows how that will do in long term police use yet, but there's very little evidence to suggest it won't do well.

 

 

Furthermore, while the extended C/D platform that was talked about a few years ago will be a bit smaller than the current Taurus, since there's room to come back down in curb weight and length, without sacrificing interior room (comparing 2010 D3 to 2005 D3), plus the way EcoBoost plays out in the EPA mileage tests, it's way too soon to say how large the largest sedans will be by 2016.

[rscalzo]

Not entirely true. Consider that the current Taurus is also a good 3 inches longer and 400 pounds heavier than the 2005 D3 Five Hundred. that shares the same chassis. There's a good probability that the 2013 PI will be even heavier, and that most of the weight over the 2005 D3 is in the chassis and suspension, and in police trim will increase it's durability. Whether that matches or exceeds the Panther remains to be seen.

 

Then also, remember that any EcoBoost D3 derived police vehicle will automatically come in all wheel drive, and no one knows how that will do in long term police use yet, but there's very little evidence to suggest it won't do well.

 

 

Furthermore, while the extended C/D platform that was talked about a few years ago will be a bit smaller than the current Taurus, since there's room to come back down in curb weight and length, without sacrificing interior room (comparing 2010 D3 to 2005 D3), plus the way EcoBoost plays out in the EPA mileage tests, it's way too soon to say how large the largest sedans will be by 2016.

 

I recent review of the new PI in a LE journal found many changes to the standard Taurus that made much sense for use in that field. Many of the changes would have been usefull on the older version. I was surprised at the rear legroom even when the cage was installed over the older PI versions.

Edited April 26, 2010 by rscalzo

[92merc]

I hope Ford uses the time to look at some of these concerns and get it right with this pursuit rated Explorer. This might just assuage those of us who like our RWD cruisers.

You do realize the upcoming Explorer is going to be a FWD vehicle, do you? Even in the AWD spec, it'll be FWD biased unless there is wheel slip.

[Len_A]

I recent review of the new PI in a LE journal found many changes to the standard Taurus that made much sense for use in that field. Many of the changes would have been usefull on the older version. I was surprised at the rear legroom even when the cage was installed over the older PI versions.

When they introduced the new Taurus based PI, I read that the back seat was redesigned with a thinner back, to make room for the cages presumably. I guess "comfort" for prisoners is not a factor.

 

There are a heck of a lot of changes from the standard civilian Taurus - I think in the long run, it's going to live up to the Police Interceptor name. And the Panther fans, including those in law enforcement, will just have to get over the demise of their favorite police car. Life goes on.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Len_A

[rscalzo]

I guess "comfort" for prisoners is not a factor.

No, it's not. Securing him properly is the main factor. How is it not "more comfortable when the prisoner can now actually fit in the seat and not have his legs folded over? The ridgid plastic seats stay cleaner and make it easier to secure the occupant in. The rides aren't all that long.

[PItrippin']

You do realize the upcoming Explorer is going to be a FWD vehicle, do you? Even in the AWD spec, it'll be FWD biased unless there is wheel slip.

 

Yup, I realized it about 20 posts ago and commented on it already.

 

Since I began this thread I've done a bunch more reading on the new PI and I see some of the LE mags we get across the table are really jumping on the bandwagon. I'm still in a wait and see mode. Do I think AWD might be real nice? Sure. Expensive? Sure. More of a source of potential problems? Yup. Do I think the twin-turbo engine will be a screamer? Sure. Cost prohibitive for most agencies? Most certainly.

 

There lies my disconnect. I think the ideal version of this car is going to be out of reach budget wise (for most) and the only one that will be in reach is a v6 FWD. It is not a "love my Panther to death" thing. Like everyone who drives them, I wanted a better one but I really wanted to stay with RWD.

 

Prisoner comfort. Yeah, way down on my list too. (We have plastic formed seats in our fleet.)

[Bob Rosadini]

Yup, I realized it about 20 posts ago and commented on it already.

 

Since I began this thread I've done a bunch more reading on the new PI and I see some of the LE mags we get across the table are really jumping on the bandwagon. I'm still in a wait and see mode. Do I think AWD might be real nice? Sure. Expensive? Sure. More of a source of potential problems? Yup. Do I think the twin-turbo engine will be a screamer? Sure. Cost prohibitive for most agencies? Most certainly.

 

There lies my disconnect. I think the ideal version of this car is going to be out of reach budget wise (for most) and the only one that will be in reach is a v6 FWD. It is not a "love my Panther to death" thing. Like everyone who drives them, I wanted a better one but I really wanted to stay with RWD.

 

Prisoner comfort. Yeah, way down on my list too. (We ha ve plastic formed seats in our fleet.)

Hopefully the 3.7 will make its way into the PI. Good power and economy without the complexity of the Ecoboost.

[armadamaster]

Are you that ignorant as to believe FMC is desperate with the D3 platform? Why would they have any reason to be desperate?

 

One sales failure after another on it is a reason to be desperate, not to mention all the R&D dumped into to coax anyone into buying it.

 

The platform has proven to be extremely safe, capable, flexible, and reliable. The D3 is a great platform and the sooner you break your rut of insulting the better for it you will be. What is your problem with the D3? Is the only reason you hate it because in your eyes it is the nail in the Panthers coffin? Have you ever even driven a D3 car?

 

I don't hate the D3 platform, I hate money pit sales flops which it has proven to be.

 

 

I don't know if you have ever looked at the differences between the Civilian Impala and the Impala PI. The differences between them are far and few. An upgraded cooling system, suspension components, steel wheels, and a partition don't suffice. The new PI from Ford goes much beyond all of that. Also you can't ignore the origins of the Impala platform. The W Platform dates back to 1988!!! The D3 truly only dates back to 2005 when it was reengineered from being the Volvo P2 platform. So you have the Impala's 22 year old platform going against the new PI's 5 year old platform...time truly does represent progress.

 

It's an old Volvo platform.....PERIOD. The W-body has been "heavily revised" over the years as well. The WImpala is old enough to buy alcohol, period. Follow your rationalizing, then the Panther platform was "all new" in 2003 with it's platform enhancements. The DIFFERENCE between the D3 and the W-body is they have sold 200k-300k WImpalas a year, so which platform is more successful again? And I do hate the WImpala platform despite it's sales success.

 

Also you have to look at how flexible each platform is. The W Platform has never seen duty in anything larger than a Full-Size sedan. On the other hand the D3 is capable of underpinning Full-Size CUVs. The durability between the two platforms is astronomical.

 

The durability on either platform doesn't hold a candle to that of the Crown Vic, or even the 1996 B-O-F GM B-body, and cops know this, which is why they have chosen the Vic over the Wimpala everytime, and is why they will not choose the Tauruiceptor.

 

And to call the Impala PI an outright failure would be incorrect as well. The Impala wasn't ever meant to take over the industry but rather take a share of it which it did.

 

Even if you afford that entire other 20% of the police market that didn't go to the Vic to the WImpala, that's far from a success. That's like calling the Excursion a success versus the Suburban.

 

I concede that a uni-body car is harder to work on, however it isn't like the new PI will have any BOF competition....as I mentioned the Charger PI and Caprice PI are both uni-body as well. They all will be equally disadvantaged.

 

There is a police spec Tahoe that won't be disadvantaged in that dept.

 

 

Does it matter that the CV was the average family sedan back in the 70's? You do realize that is 30 years ago. There is a reason that no other brand produces a BOF sedan anymore! It just isn't reasonable to continue to invest in a platform that is that old. Plain and simple.

 

And it isn't anyone's incompetence that the Panther hasn't been updated. The market went elsewhere. Plain and simple. As I mentioned already there is a reason that no other automaker makes a BOF sedan and don't think for a second that is because they wouldn't be able to compete with the Panther. The market for BOF sedans died a long time ago. Ford's other BOF offering are in segments that require such technology. Trucks and SUVs are inherently BOF for obvious reasons. Cars don't have to be BOF and shouldn't be and that is why the Ford has never invested in updating the Panther, not because of incompetence.

 

The market went elsewhere because it had no cholce. I can't blame someone from not wanting to buy a brand new 1998 GMQ in 2010.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Armada Master

[T'Cal]

Hopefully the 3.7 will make its way into the PI. Good power and economy without the complexity of the Ecoboost.

 

 

You may be correct in this. Ford's press release read that the 3.5L V6 would have "at least" 263 hp. We could take that to mean it will have the 285 hp DI 3.5L V6 slated for next year's Edge or it could mean the 305 hp 3.7L V6 that will be in the sport model of that vehicle. BTW, they mentioned that the EB V6 will also have "at least" 365 hp and that the next gen PI is still being readied. I don't believe many agencies will spend the cash for the EB engine. The NA V6 will be the most popular and AWD will likely be very popular as well. The Explorer PI could be the real sleeper though.

Edited May 31, 2010 by T'Cal