GM's Alpha: Field of Broken Dreams?

[PREMiERdrum]

It seems no rear-wheel drive program at General Motors goes without a soap opera's fill of drama. The Zeta program has been the source of constant back-and-forth, both publicly and privately. Hopes have been set high that the upcoming Alpha program would be a breath of drama-free air for GM rear-wheel drive, but GMI is hearing that drama and problem-free is furthest from the truth with regards to the coveted Alpha program.

 

Alpha's roots go back all the way to late 2004. It was generally inspired by the Torana concept car. At the time, the theoretical platform was loosely coined Kappa II, Kappa being the platform that underpinned the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. The original plan was to make Alpha a true enthusiast's platform with perfect weight distribution, devoid of an excess of weight to distribute. Holden was all for developing such an architecture for a modern day Torana. At GM North America some saw this as a natural architecture for a reborn Camaro. Bob Lutz dreamed of creating a whole family of sporty, great handling, small-RWD cars for Pontiac.

 

And then came the first problem for the soon-to-be Alpha program. Not enough executives at GM were signing up with the program to make it's near $1 Billion price tag justifiable. Several vehicle line executives at GM North America wanted no part of the new platform, including Cadillac and executives' overall sentiment against 'premium small cars.' So internal politics, lack of interest and scarce funding put "Kappa 2" to sleep for a while.

 

A couple of years later Cadillac became interested in the program and signed on. It was at that point in 2007 that the platform was beginning to be referred to internally as Alpha and real development began.

 

However as Cadillac became involved with the Alpha program, a sense of deja vu came with it. Much like Cadillac's initial involvement with the Sigma platform, Cadillac had a long wish-list for the new Alpha platform. This long list quickly turned a light, sporty platform on it's head, including stops on development several times over the last few years.

 

Initially Alpha was going to be a four-cylinder only chassis for small premium cars, so naturally development focused on optimizing the Alpha platform for four-cylinder mills in a very light package. Well, Cadillac's first condition was that Alpha be re-engineered to package a naturally aspirated V-6 engine - and that was non-negotiable. This about-face on engine selection would become the first of at least two engine requests that led to a re-engineering of the Alpha chassis to accommodate the new requirements. More changes (read: more mass and cost) were required for the addition of all-wheel drive.

 

What started out as a great handling, small RWD program, began it's mission creep from being very focused to being all things to all people. And as it evolved, certain "hard-points" from previous development were locked in, even though the base program had transformed itself. For example, Alpha was designed with a very sophisticated multi-link front suspension with near perfect geometry for the car as it was developed at that point. That geometry was "locked in". As the car grew and became heavier with more features and content, that original geometry was no longer optimal. Our sources tell us that GM is now attempting to mask this sub-optimal geometry with chassis tuning rather than doing the right thing and actually fix it.

 

According to sources familiar with the Alpha program both internally at GM and the supplier level, GM has made several other additions to the requirement list of Alpha beyond engines. Among the additions were: a new electronics system and aerodynamic shutters (similar to the Volt).

 

Continued at LINK (GMI)

Edited May 17, 2011 by PREMiERdrum

[PREMiERdrum]

A 4,000lb 3 Series competitor, wearing the Wreath and Crest? Good grief.

[atvman]

A 4,000lb 3 Series competitor, wearing the Wreath and Crest? Good grief.

It wouldn't surprise me considering how much the Cruze, Regal, Equinox, and any other newer GM weighs compared to the competition.

[Fgts]

To add to this seems GM is not importing the Ute or any other SWB Zeta, only Zeta that will have a shot in the US is the LWB Civy Caprice or a Buick (not that i really care at this point). No Alpha based products haven't hit the road yet so who's to say it's a bad platform or it's over 4000lbs but i'll say any new GM RWD car projects show up keep Caddy the fuck away from it.

[goinbroke2]

What's a camel?

 

 

 

A horse designed by a committee.

 

 

Light weight, 4 cyl rwd sports car. That could of gone somewhere. (solstice etc) Make it with different sheetmetal for various brands and it could of been something interesting.

 

But what a freaking mess and waste of money! That's a damn shame.

[jpd80]

I look at Ford's decision to keep Falcon and Mustang on separate platforms as both good

judgement and listening to what buyers want, I hope Ford never loses sight of that.....

[akirby]

Light weight, 4 cyl rwd sports car. That could of gone somewhere. (solstice etc) Make it with different sheetmetal for various brands and it could of been something interesting.

 

First, it's "could've - could have" not "could of". Pet peeve.

 

Second - if it was such a great idea why didn't the Solstice and Sky survive?

[PREMiERdrum]

First, it's "could've - could have" not "could of". Pet peeve.

 

Second - if it was such a great idea why didn't the Solstice and Sky survive?

 

Because Kappa was fundamentally unable to accommodate a rear seat. There was a plan to have a Buick (Bengal) and Chevrolet roadsters survive on an updated Kappa II, but there wasn't sufficient volume to keep the dedicated Delaware plant open to build them, nor to make sweeping changes to an existing plant to build them. It's a shame, too, because I've heard the Bengal was stunning.

 

I'm curious as to if Bowling Green could have built an updated Kappa architecture... although GM has obviously wanted to keep that plant Corvette "exclusive."

[akirby]

Because Kappa was fundamentally unable to accommodate a rear seat. There was a plan to have a Buick (Bengal) and Chevrolet roadsters survive on an updated Kappa II, but there wasn't sufficient volume to keep the dedicated Delaware plant open to build them, nor to make sweeping changes to an existing plant to build them. It's a shame, too, because I've heard the Bengal was stunning.

 

I'm curious as to if Bowling Green could have built an updated Kappa architecture... although GM has obviously wanted to keep that plant Corvette "exclusive."

 

goinbroke2 said a lightweight 4cyl sports car. That pretty much eliminates a back seat and is exactly what Solstice and Sky were.

 

I just don't think there is a big enough market for a small roadster outside of the Miata fans. Honda killed the S2000, the Solstice and Sky couldn't survive either.

[akirby]

And then came the first problem for the soon-to-be Alpha program. Not enough executives at GM were signing up with the program to make it's near $1 Billion price tag justifiable. Several vehicle line executives at GM North America wanted no part of the new platform, including Cadillac and executives' overall sentiment against 'premium small cars.' So internal politics, lack of interest and scarce funding put "Kappa 2" to sleep for a while.

 

This is why I think GM will continue to flounder while Ford moves ahead. Ford dictates global platform use while GM still allows each division to do their own thing, like Ford used to. At least I don't see any clear signs that GM has changed this internal model recently.

[PREMiERdrum]

goinbroke2 said a lightweight 4cyl sports car. That pretty much eliminates a back seat and is exactly what Solstice and Sky were.

 

I just don't think there is a big enough market for a small roadster outside of the Miata fans. Honda killed the S2000, the Solstice and Sky couldn't survive either.

 

My apologies, I misunderstood. I thought we were discussing why the Kappa program didn't continue. As for the original Alpha mission, I do think that there could be enough volume, if GM would properly utilize its global brand portfolio (something they've never shown they're capable of).

 

This is why I think GM will continue to flounder while Ford moves ahead. Ford dictates global platform use while GM still allows each division to do their own thing, like Ford used to. At least I don't see any clear signs that GM has changed this internal model recently.

 

This. What's worse is that while Holden, Opel, and GMNA are all operating as independent divisions, the 4 "core" US brands are all being mismanaged by the same group of execs and designers.

[RichardJensen]

It's my understanding that GM theoretically operates under the same global platform structure that Ford operates under.

 

However, it appears that GM does not have good processes, which is typical of companies that have been Lutzed.

[jpd80]

I'm wondering how such a supposedly light weight RWD could end up almost as heavy as the Zeta

it's supposed to replace... The answer is GMNA took a Holden design and completely F****d it up.

 

Come on Ford, show them how to do RWD the right way.........

[grbeck]

It's my understanding that GM theoretically operates under the same global platform structure that Ford operates under.

 

However, it appears that GM does not have good processes, which is typical of companies that have been Lutzed.

 

But I thought the entire point of bringing Lutz on board earlier in the decade was to improve the vehicle development process at GM.

[RichardJensen]

But I thought the entire point of bringing Lutz on board earlier in the decade was to improve the vehicle development process at GM.

Exactly.

 

The problem is nobody bothered to look at what employing Lutz does to a company.

[ANTAUS]

I have a friend that just started working as the service manager for a Caddy dealership and he gave me a tour of his new facility. Even some of the technicians were laughing of how half-assed some of the new products are. I was shocked at how bad the paint jobs are. Its not a smooth glossy job, rather orange peel throughout. He had one issue where the customer bought a $70K Escalade ESV and was in 7 months later because the window moulding surrounds were not wearing too well...and what he received in the box to replace it, wasn't any better. The SRX is nicknamed "Maxi-VUE", because aside from being a Saturn Vue, its the vehicle that has the MAXImum attention at their service bayHe's shocked of how much worse those vehicles have gotten and told me their more reliable vehicle, happens to be the Deville...thats sad... Again, business as usual.

[grbeck]

I have a friend that just started working as the service manager for a Caddy dealership and he gave me a tour of his new facility. Even some of the technicians were laughing of how half-assed some of the new products are. I was shocked at how bad the paint jobs are. Its not a smooth glossy job, rather orange peel throughout. He had one issue where the customer bought a $70K Escalade ESV and was in 7 months later because the window moulding surrounds were not wearing too well...and what he received in the box to replace it, wasn't any better. The SRX is nicknamed "Maxi-VUE", because aside from being a Saturn Vue, its the vehicle that has the MAXImum attention at their service bayHe's shocked of how much worse those vehicles have gotten and told me their more reliable vehicle, happens to be the Deville...thats sad... Again, business as usual.

 

Interesting, because I keep reading that GM's quality is supposedly improving. Cadillacs, though, have been troublesome for years. What does your friend say about the Northstar V-8? From what I've heard, the engine makes a nice boat anchor after 100,000 miles.

[jpd80]

GM don't make Northstar anymore,

[PREMiERdrum]

Interesting, because I keep reading that GM's quality is supposedly improving. Cadillacs, though, have been troublesome for years. What does your friend say about the Northstar V-8? From what I've heard, the engine makes a nice boat anchor after 100,000 miles.

 

SRX has been especially troublesome since the redesign. It was totally half baked.

[grbeck]

GM don't make Northstar anymore,

 

There should still be plenty left to service. From what I've heard, it's not a very reliable or long-lived engine.

[grbeck]

SRX has been especially troublesome since the redesign. It was totally half baked.

 

I'm guessing that the Equinox is better? For what it's worth, the original SRX was also very troublesome.

 

Interestingly, the Northstar V-8 turned out to be inferior to the ohv V-8s used in various Chevrolet light trucks and Camaro and Corvette.

 

That's Cadillac's problem. It isn't even the Standard of GM anymore, let alone the Standard of the World.

[630land]

"Second - if it was such a great idea why didn't the Solstice and Sky survive?"

 

Answer, Bankruptcy.

Edited May 20, 2011 by 630land

[grbeck]

"Second - if it was such a great idea why didn't the Solstice and Sky survive?"

 

Answer, Bankruptcy.

 

I thought they were scheduled to be discontinued even before the bankruptcy. The entire exercise was pretty much a waste of money.

[ANTAUS]

Interesting, because I keep reading that GM's quality is supposedly improving. Cadillacs, though, have been troublesome for years. What does your friend say about the Northstar V-8? From what I've heard, the engine makes a nice boat anchor after 100,000 miles.

 

He says he doesn't see too many of them with 120K+ miles in for service but he's only been there a few weeks. He is amazed to find out the 3.6L in the CTS makes around 300HP, he says it feels like it's missing 50 of those horses. We sat in a CTS that was about 2 years old and he was floored how you could feel the car vibrate when the A/C compressor would kick on. Like you felt it, even on the steering wheel. The panel gap between the door panel and dashboard panel was un-execusable to where I can stick my thumb between them.

 

Then I pressed the door locks and "clank", and I kept clicking it for a bit and I'm like "hmm Hmm wait, that "CLACK" is familar, hmmm childhood memories where is it from...hmmm then we both said "AEROSTAR!"...Yes, their power door locks side like they were picked up from an '86 Aerostar, "CLANK"... WOW...then again I think I've heard the same on some VW models, its just as loud... Hmmm VW, that itself says alot...

[esevans]

He says he doesn't see too many of them with 120K+ miles in for service but he's only been there a few weeks.

 

I'd be suprised if he did see many with 120K+. By the time alot of cars reach that mileage, trips to the dealer are only for specific service an independent shop can't or won't do.

 

I know the Northstar had/has some issues, but they're not necessarily boat anchors past 100K. People just don't service their cars like they should. I suspect a Caddy with a Northstar can last quite a while with proper service. I've seen many at salvage auctions with 150K+. However many used Caddy buyers are already stretching to buy the car, and aren't going to keep them up. After awhile, the repair costs are greater than the cars value, and it's pretty much worthless.