silvrsvt Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The word didnt take long to get out and the bait was taken, slaes escalated and then Toyota started ramping up the MSRP, in quite dramatic fashion if I remember correctly ( I DID I DID....it went up 15k in less than 4 years ).......smart business?....absolutely ( and incidently I think Hyundai thinks so too...perhaps unwisely now ), but without DEEP pockets probably impossible, and perhaps a LOT more risky in todays marketplace.... Another thing to consider was that Lexus only had 2-3 products at first? It wasn't till the RX came out and the ES did their sales really take off. They sold their flagship on the cheap and then built it up by replacing it with cheaper product under it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Another thing to consider was that Lexus only had 2-3 products at first? It wasn't till the RX came out and the ES did their sales really take off. They sold their flagship on the cheap and then built it up by replacing it with cheaper product under it... absolutely, but the way they initially built up their rap was a masterstroke of marketing genius... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It was a diversion from July's huge project: Migrating from MySQL to DB2. DB2 seems awesome, but you have to set up a lot of things that MySQL does automatically. Mmm there are more than a few posts of mine out there on the internet that comprise hours of research to make a tiny point, all done in the name of procrastinating from doing something much less fun. I am lucky to have never worked on a project large enough that it couldn't be supported by a MySQL server shared with a dozen other projects. I'm the only one that even bothers setting up actual foreign keys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Mmm there are more than a few posts of mine out there on the internet that comprise hours of research to make a tiny point, all done in the name of procrastinating from doing something much less fun. I am lucky to have never worked on a project large enough that it couldn't be supported by a MySQL server shared with a dozen other projects. I'm the only one that even bothers setting up actual foreign keys I am learning that MySQL makes it quite easy to do rather non-standard things. I'm having to do a lot more prep work with DB2 and revise the way some of my tables are structured. The issue isn't so much the size of the database it's that MySQL is choking the server for no reason I can clearly discern, given the size of the tables, the amount of server traffic and the capabilities of the server. About the only lead I've got is a general report that MySQL has disk access issues in Windows Server '08. In short, I don't trust the DBMS anymore, and I need one with better administrative and diagnostic tools. The goofy part is that my previous server used an open source web server (Apache), open source FTP, open source DBMS open source OS, and closed source ColdFusion. My new server uses a closed source web server (IIS), closed source FTP (IIS + Active Directory), closed source DBMS (DB2), but an open source CF server (Open BlueDragon). Edited June 30, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I am learning that MySQL makes it quite easy to do rather non-standard things. I'm having to do a lot more prep work with DB2 and revise the way some of my tables are structured. The issue isn't so much the size of the database it's that MySQL is choking the server for no reason I can clearly discern, given the size of the tables, the amount of server traffic and the capabilities of the server. About the only lead I've got is a general report that MySQL has disk access issues in Windows Server '08. In short, I don't trust the DBMS anymore, and I need one with better administrative and diagnostic tools. The goofy part is that my previous server used an open source web server (Apache), open source FTP, open source DBMS open source OS, and closed source ColdFusion. My new server uses a closed source web server (IIS), closed source FTP (IIS + Active Directory), closed source DBMS (DB2), but an open source CF server (Open BlueDragon). Why not Oracle? I was doing 24/7 mission critical Oracle apps way back in 1990 when they just came out with row level locking (version 6.0.27). Oracle rocks, especially with large dbs or high transaction rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Why not Oracle? I was doing 24/7 mission critical Oracle apps way back in 1990 when they just came out with row level locking (version 6.0.27). Oracle rocks, especially with large dbs or high transaction rates. Two reasons: One rational, one extremely irrational. - DB2 Express-C isn't as limited as Oracle Express and allegedly is less memory intensive. The thing is, I'm not running a large database, but for whatever reason MySQL is choking on it. - I really20 don't like Larry Ellison, and don't want to be tied to an Oracle upgrade cycle (either laterally upgrading to the higher editions, or longitudinally to new versions). I wish IBM had ended up with Sun. Edited June 30, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Two reasons: One rational, one extremely irrational. - DB2 Express-C isn't as limited as Oracle Express and allegedly is less memory intensive. The thing is, I'm not running a large database, but for whatever reason MySQL is choking on it. - I really20 don't like Larry Ellison, and don't want to be tied to an Oracle upgrade cycle (either laterally upgrading to the higher editions, or longitudinally to new versions). I wish IBM had ended up with Sun. Sounds like 2 rational reasons to me. If you need sql help shoot me an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Lincoln FWD (l hope not) v Lexus RWD (Tops all the JD Power, Auto Express dependability, quality, reliability surveys) Lets hope Lincoln use only quality, durable reliable RWD drivetrains & some with AWD. It would be an instant hit with Brits it would blow Lexus, BMW's & Mercedes off the car selling map here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Lincoln FWD (l hope not) v Lexus RWD (Tops all the JD Power, Auto Express dependability, quality, reliability surveys) Lets hope Lincoln use only quality, durable reliable RWD drivetrains & some with AWD. It would be an instant hit with Brits it would blow Lexus, BMW's & Mercedes off the car selling map here. Yeah, they'll take over Europe just like the 2014 Mustang... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Yeah, they'll take over Europe just like the 2014 Mustang... :rolleyes: Yep, l expect the Mustang will demolish everybody elses sports car sales, everybody other than Ford will hate the Mustang here as their sales charts head to the floor close to zero.. But l don't expect Lincoln to be the best selling car in Europe all its life for decades at a time like the Cortina/Taunus once were Nick. Quality market is different to mass produced market in size even if low volume quality BMW 3 Series out sells the mass produced Mondeo outside our top 10 today in Europe. Edited June 30, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yep, l expect the Mustang will demolish everybody elses sports car sales, everybody other than Ford will hate the Mustang here as their sales charts head to the floor close to zero.. You should put this as your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 - I really20 don't like Larry Ellison, and don't want to be tied to an Oracle upgrade cycle (either laterally upgrading to the higher editions, or longitudinally to new versions). I wish IBM had ended up with Sun. This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) You should put this as your signature. Can't see many Toyota & Honda type Stangs, Camaro or Charger topping your muscle car sales charts Stateside very funny is that Nick? Edited June 30, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Can't see many Toyota & Honda type Stangs, Camaro or Charger topping your muscle car sales charts Stateside Nick? I always get the impression that Europe thinks American cars are worse than Lada or anything the Communists could create. I'll be shocked to see a Mustang sold as a permanent fixture in the Ford EU lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I always get the impression that Europe thinks American cars are worse than Lada or anything the Communists could create. I'll be shocked to see a Mustang sold as a permanent fixture in the Ford EU lineup. Especially not at the prices they will probably command. Add to that the rather subpar fuel economy for a 2+2 (for Europe anyway) and it all adds up to ohhhh...I'll guess under 1000 sales per month for the whole of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Add to that the rather subpar fuel economy for a 2+2 (for Europe anyway) and it all adds up to ohhhh...I'll guess under 1000 sales per month for the whole of Europe. Your attitude problem continues. The next Mustang will have rather above-par fuel economy for a 2+2 (for Europe anyway) compared to similar-size 2+2's, like the Audi A-5 and the 3-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Your attitude problem continues. The next Mustang will have rather above-par fuel economy for a 2+2 (for Europe anyway) compared to similar-size 2+2's, like the Audi A-5 and the 3-series. But not compared to other coupes in general. I doubt the A5 is really tearing up the European sales charts either. 3-series coupe? Well...that's another story. I don't see the Mustang displacing it anytime soon as one of the de facto coupes of choice there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's hard to know how the globe will react to a legendary nameplate like Mustang, should it finally go global. We've seen Chrysler's strong Jeep brand success globally with cars like the Wrangler. However, I have a hard time believing the next Mustang can be compromised to fit a global market and still maintain it's legendary status. It's a tricky game to play, selling a Mustang globally with a EB I4 is a risk to the brand with virtually no guaranteed results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) *double post* Edited June 30, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's hard to know how the globe will react to a legendary nameplate like Mustang, should it finally go global. We've seen Chrysler's strong Jeep brand success globally with cars like the Wrangler. However, I have a hard time believing the next Mustang can be compromised to fit a global market and still maintain it's legendary status. It's a tricky game to play, selling a Mustang globally with a EB I4 is a risk to the brand with virtually no guaranteed results. I don't think offering a 4 cylinder is any bit of a problem, just so long as the high end engines remain available as well. After all, it's not like the Mustang hasn't offered (far weaker) 4 cylinders in the past. I really just don't see most foreign markets embracing such an American style vehicle in any huge volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) I don't think offering a 4 cylinder is any bit of a problem, just so long as the high end engines remain available as well. After all, it's not like the Mustang hasn't offered (far weaker) 4 cylinders in the past. I really just don't see most foreign markets embracing such an American style vehicle in any huge volumes. It's depends on the spirited nature of the EB 2.0, if it's a fun little engine to thrash around with it's unique torque attributes, then maybe it'll seen as a positive choice rather than one driven entirely by fuel economy. But they have to resist the urge to just stick a fuel miserly engine into the Mustang and expect you can be all things to all people. I'm not sure what Ford's 2.0 EB is going to be like in a lighter car. Edited June 30, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's depends on the spirited nature of the EB 2.0, if it's a fun little engine to thrash around with it's unique torque attributes, then maybe it'll seen as a positive choice rather than one driven entirely by fuel economy. But they have to resist the urge to just stick a fuel miserly engine into the Mustang and expect you can be all things to all people. I'm not sure what Ford's 2.0 EB is going to be like in a lighter car. bingo....Fun = Power to weight.....RIP Colin Chapman.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 It's depends on the spirited nature of the EB 2.0, if it's a fun little engine to thrash around with it's unique torque attributes, then maybe it'll seen as a positive choice rather than one driven entirely by fuel economy. But they have to resist the urge to just stick a fuel miserly engine into the Mustang and expect you can be all things to all people. I'm not sure what Ford's 2.0 EB is going to be like in a lighter car. I think the spirit of the engine depends on where they try to put it in the lineup. Will it be replacing the 3.7? Supplementing it? If so, is it going to geared as an option above it or as a replacement base motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think the spirit of the engine depends on where they try to put it in the lineup. Will it be replacing the 3.7? Supplementing it? If so, is it going to geared as an option above it or as a replacement base motor? I think it will be the lower end fuel economy engine for sure. Whether it costs more or less than the 3.7L isn't clear - probably depends on how much better the mpg figures are and whether Ford thinks they can get away with charging more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think it will be the lower end fuel economy engine for sure. Whether it costs more or less than the 3.7L isn't clear - probably depends on how much better the mpg figures are and whether Ford thinks they can get away with charging more. my guess...and its a guess $700 upcharge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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