Toyota delays Corolla redesign

[630land]

Snippet from Autmotive News:

 

"Toyota delays Corolla redesign"

 

"Toyota has delayed the redesigned Corolla for U.S. showrooms a year, until spring 2008. The delay is surprising because Toyota adheres to a disciplined redesign schedule. The current Corolla will be on the market six years, not the typical five."

 

 

 

HAHA! :happy feet:

 

When Ford/GM does it, it's "Detroit is slow" and "Shows they are dying"

 

This shows they are not as 'perfect' and "In Touch" as thought. Other sources say Toyota went back to the drawing board when the 2006 Civics took off. Nissan got flack for the 7 year long Sentra, now this. JPN isn't as 'fast' as they used to be.

 

Hmm, now the Car & Driver/Edmunds spin will now be "Well 6 years is the new 5 year cycle", [like in fashion "This is the new black"]. Well, Ford then isn't so bad keeping the Focus longer after all, lol!

Edited July 10, 2006 by 630land

[igor]

I heard the rumor, that they went back to the drawing board after the civic. ...

 

we'll see ... at this point I just wish it will be highly competitive, so the like of Mazda3 cannot just leep on thir laurels.

 

Good find.

 

Igor

[630land]

Well, next time someone says "Toyota is faster to market and knows what people want", point to this. And mention the Tunrda air bag/child seat issue, and the poor Sequoia sales.

 

They may be doing well, but they F up also!

[bec5150]

I wouldn't go that far. When the six year old Corolla goes out of the market in late 2007 it still will whip the Focus that Ford has right now which, by the way, is older than the current Corolla.

 

I dont' like it any more than you do, but facts are facts...

[NickF1011]

I wouldn't go that far. When the six year old Corolla goes out of the market in late 2007 it still will whip the Focus that Ford has right now which, by the way, is older than the current Corolla.

 

I dont' like it any more than you do, but facts are facts...

 

Whip it at what exactly? Sales? That's about it. There's nothing too super about the current Focus OR the Corolla. They are BOTH old and outdated compared to the rest of the small car market.

[630land]

No, actually, I think that this whole 'redo the whole car ever 4-5 years' is getting to be too expensive for car makers and will eventaullty stretch out some more. Just the car mags and nuts demand 'newness' for the sake of it.

 

People now are getting new cars with 72 month loans, and cannot get a new one till they get equity. Suddenly saying "your 3 year old car is outdated", when they are years away from pay off is disheartening and makes one think "why buy this car from Brand X, if it is just going to be dated next year?"

 

If mighty Toyota moves out to 6 years, how long will the current Civic last?

 

Car rags and nuts badge a car 'outdated' just on looks, pictures, and the 'birth ceritificate', instead of really driving and comparing them.

 

 

Or, if they all are eventually made in China, then we can see all new looking cars every year, since they will be so cheap, right??

Edited July 10, 2006 by 630land

[ANTAUS]

72 month loan on a $15-19K car... Wow thats sad. I mean, if they are really that bad off, just buy a used car for that matter.

[RichardJensen]

No, actually, I think that this whole 'redo the whole car ever 4-5 years' is getting to be too expensive for car makers and will eventaullty stretch out some more.

Toyota makes some chassis adjustments and reskins interiors and exteriors every 5 years. Think of it as a slow motion version of what Detroit did from '49 to about 1980. Rarely does Toyota introduce new vehicle architectures. This happens when the existing architecture is grossly inadequate (T100, Tundra, Lexus IS). By contrast, Honda significantly revises architectures on an 8-9 year schedule. Between these two models, I hope Ford has opted to pursue the Honda model, as it consistently results in better product. The Accord outsells the Camry to retail customers, and I would be not at all surprised if the same is true of the Civic and Corolla. The Honda passenger cars, to me, are far more competent than their Toyota counterparts. Back to back, there is no comparison between the Camry and Accord. The Camry feels like an '82 Electra compared to the Accord.

[ehaase]

I wish that the Focus offered 30 mpg in the city and 40 mpg on the highway as the Corollas does.

[silvrsvt]

The Camry feels like an '82 Electra compared to the Accord.

 

I rode in a 2002 Camry, and was TOTALY unimpressed by it.

[swenson88]

I wish that the Focus offered 30 mpg in the city and 40 mpg on the highway as the Corollas does.

 

I agree, but the reason that Corolla motor gets great mileage is how tiny it is - 1.8L. I think most econo cars should at least offer an engine in that size range, but it amazes me how many Corolla's Toyota sells without having even close to comparable power anymore.

[RichardJensen]

I rode in a 2002 Camry, and was TOTALY unimpressed by it.

Try driving one some time. It feels like you're on laughing gas.

[Biker16]

I agree, but the reason that Corolla motor gets great mileage is how tiny it is - 1.8L. I think most econo cars should at least offer an engine in that size range, but it amazes me how many Corolla's Toyota sells without having even close to comparable power anymore.

performance wise it is comparable to the 2.0l focus.

that VVTi stuff works.

[kenp77]

I rode in a 2002 Camry, and was TOTALY unimpressed by it.

Ride in a new 07 camry then ride in a fusion, I did not comparison the camry wins in every dept. but it is also more money IMO this is a sad commentary for US auto makers :shrug:

[RichardJensen]

Ride in a new 07 camry then ride in a fusion, I did not comparison the camry wins in every dept. but it is also more money IMO this is a sad commentary for US auto makers :shrug:

How? Steering responsiveness? Body-roll in cornering? Grip? On-Center feel?

 

In every aspect of chassis dynamics, the Fusion/Zep have consistently scored higher than the '07 Camry & ES. The CD3 suspension design is as much of an improvement over the Camry's as, oh say, the Camry's is over a buckboard with leaf springs.

 

Only in NVH have I seen anyone praise the Camry over the CD3s.

 

We're going to be excluding the 3.5L V6 Camry from this discussion because, well, there's no point to including it. If you want raw power in a vehicle that feels like it's going to break loose and rollover durng hard cornering, then may I suggest you buy a '58 Turnpike Cruiser. Reviewers have noted only marginal improvements in the '07 Camry's handling, and the outgoing Camry's handling was worse than my '00 Sable, on its original struts.

Edited July 11, 2006 by RichardJensen

[range]

RJ is correct....

 

Reference:

 

May 03, 2006

2006 Fusion marches past 2007 Camry

Ford's power, fit and finish trump Toyota's warhorse

 

"Fusion SLE seemed to offer so much more than the Camry LE, in terms of engine size and performance, as well as creature comforts and -- most surprising of all -- assembly quality.

 

Overall Winner: Ford Fusion"

 

 

And this doesn't even factor in all of the transmission problems that have cropped up in the 2007 Camry.

[taxman100]

performance wise it is comparable to the 2.0l focus.

that VVTi stuff works.

 

Wife's 2000 Corolla has the VVT, and it has no power issues. The vehicle is smaller than a Focus - have not driven the newer Corolla that came out in 2003 to compare, but I understand it was a clean sheet design other than the drivetrain. They do get those funny small car drivetrain noises when they get up in mileage and age, but her insurance settlement on her 11 year old 1989 Corolla car was quite high. It is also not a very comfortable car, but it is acceptable for commuting to work - gas mileage is decent, but can drop rapidly if driven the way my wife drives (the women regularly squeals the tires on the Grand Marquis at lights - she has a heavy foot) .

 

Current Corolla is at 100,000 miles, and if we were in the market, we'll look at Focus, Corolla (and Matrix), Civic, Elantra, Vibe, and Spectra, though the Corolla or Vibe is a strong contender because both her previous Corolla's have been reliable and cheap to own. Now if the 2.3 liter engine was available in the Focus ZX-5, it would get stronger consideration, as the Focus is a better used car buy due to depreciation, but Ford doesn't offer the engine even in the wagon.

 

Owning a Grand Marquis, we can get a crackerbox appliance car for one of our vehicles, but it kills me to spend the money on one of those when I can get a one year old used Grand Marquis LS for close to the same price. I consider it a higher quality vehicle than any sub $30,000 Toyota, even if Ford acts embarrassed that it still sells the car.

 

Let's put it this way - my mechanic went out of business two years ago, and we've yet had the need to find a new mechanic for either vehicle - fluid changes is all either has needed. I'd take that over "Bold Moves" and those idiotic "American Idol" commercials any day of the week.

[RichardJensen]

2006 Fusion marches past 2007 Camry

Ford's power, fit and finish trump Toyota's warhorse

Actually, I wouldn't put any stock in the Lienerts' judgments, if they were not seconded by theCarConnection (in describing the ES and Zep), and C&D (or was it R&T--somebody noting that the Camry's ride was slightly firmer than the outgoing model).

[NickF1011]

Isn't that all that really matters? If it doesn't sell, then what? :shrug:

 

The Cobalt is currently outselling the Corolla. I wouldn't really say that says anything about which car is better.

[partsisparts]

How? Steering responsiveness? Body-roll in cornering? Grip? On-Center feel?

 

In every aspect of chassis dynamics, the Fusion/Zep have consistently scored higher than the '07 Camry & ES. The CD3 suspension design is as much of an improvement over the Camry's as, oh say, the Camry's is over a buckboard with leaf springs.

 

Only in NVH have I seen anyone praise the Camry over the CD3s.

 

We're going to be excluding the 3.5L V6 Camry from this discussion because, well, there's no point to including it. If you want raw power in a vehicle that feels like it's going to break loose and rollover durng hard cornering, then may I suggest you buy a '58 Turnpike Cruiser. Reviewers have noted only marginal improvements in the '07 Camry's handling, and the outgoing Camry's handling was worse than my '00 Sable, on its original struts.

Not to mention the Camry has the nose of a 1950 Studebaker! No insult intended to Studebaker. :shrug:

[igor]

I wish that the Focus offered 30 mpg in the city and 40 mpg on the highway as the Corollas does.

it does 27/37 with better chasis and suspension and more torque.. looks are subjective.. Corolla simply truimphs over it in interior materials ...

 

Igor

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Having recently compared an 06 Focus SES to a Corolla S, I can say that the Corolla gives a better overall impression of quality. The power that both vehicles have feels comparable (the focus might just be a hair better off the line, but, midrange and top end power seem to favor the corolla). HAndling wise, the focus was much sharper. In the end, I didn't see one as being that much better than the other. What sold me on the Corolla was that the bank would finance me on the corolla but not on the focus, though the focus stickered for slightly lower than the corolla. Something to do with depreciation and the fact that I could only put down $6000 on both vehicles.

 

Having talked with someone that purchased a focus when I bought my corolla, I'm seeing a real world difference of about 5 mpg in favor of my corolla for comparable driving distances and conditions. That 1.8L may give up 5 HP and 10 lbs of torque, but, I'll gladly trade that for the better mpg these days.

[StevenJ]

The Cobalt is currently outselling the Corolla. I wouldn't really say that says anything about which car is better.

 

If I had to pick and choose between which car I'd rather be stuck with, Cobalt. I've had one friend with a Corolla and a grandmother with a Cobalt. The Corolla is slow, loud, poorly built, cramped, ugly, and uncomfortable. The Cobalt is still cramped and uncomfortable but at least it isn't slow, too loud, and looks great on the inside and the outside. Chevy has really outdone themselves with the new Cobalt. It ain't no Cavalier!

Edited July 11, 2006 by StevenJ

[NickF1011]

If I had to pick and choose between which car I'd rather be stuck with, Cobalt. I've had one friend with a Corolla and a grandmother with a Cobalt. The Corolla is slow, loud, poorly built, cramped, ugly, and uncomfortable. The Cobalt is still cramped and uncomfortable but at least it isn't slow, too loud, and looks great on the inside and the outside. Chevy has really outdone themselves with the new Cobalt. It ain't no Cavalier!

 

Buddy of mine had a Cobalt rental car once. Looked nice enough outside, but you have GOT to be kidding about the interior. It was made entirely of the same plastic as a Igloo cooler. I know I've said it already on this board a few times, but I couldn't believe how cheap that interior felt. It LOOKED okay, but feeling it, I was expecting to open the glove compartment and find some cold brewskies. No such luck.

[StevenJ]

Buddy of mine had a Cobalt rental car once. Looked nice enough outside, but you have GOT to be kidding about the interior. It was made entirely of the same plastic as a Igloo cooler. I know I've said it already on this board a few times, but I couldn't believe how cheap that interior felt. It LOOKED okay, but feeling it, I was expecting to open the glove compartment and find some cold brewskies. No such luck.

 

The corrolla's even worse! The cup holders can't hold crap, the interior storage bins are too tiny to hold more than a roll of pennies and the doors on them snap without a problem. And the carpet appears to be made out of rat fur! At least the Cobalt has a neat dash with cool looking gauges with metallic rims and the center stack is well designed functionally as well as asthetically. Can't say that about the Corrolla and all it's cheap and useless storage bins and ugly white gauges.