Where is the Transit?

[Bluecon]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1802

 

"In short, the Transit is a worthy and logical competitor to DCX’ workhorse: a vehicle with all the versatility, economy, safety (ABS standard from the git go) and reliability America’s tradesmen need to help keep the country’s economy strong. No wonder, then, that the United Parcel Service (UPS) started enquiring about a US version of the Transit for their enormous fleet. Ford had a close and profitable relationship with UPS; the Blue Oval Boys supply the underpinnings for most of the parcel service’s brown, meat-loaf shaped trucks. And yet Ford, awash in SUV profits, hung up the phone. That was six years ago.

 

A year later, DCX’ announced that they were bringing the Sprinter into the US. Again, Ford chose to ignore the threat to their domestic market share and cold shoulder their easily-accessible potential response. This despite the urgings of many mid-level managers in FoMoCo’s commercial truck division. Again, the guys in brown repeated their request for a Transit. Again, nothing doing. Ford was concerned that a successful Transit might steal the sales from the Ford Econoline: the vehicle that dominated the US commercial van market for decades."

 

 

 

"But Ford has everything: a terrific product at a great price (most Transits are constructed in a hi-tech, low-wage Turkish factory), a strong reputation in trucks, and a stellar dealer and service network. And just in case you’re thinking that the Transit isn’t sufficiently “American” for the job, clock this: as part of Alex Trotman’s Ford 2000 program, the Transit was designed and engineered in Dearborn.

 

Ford’s product development team has shown themselves increasingly incapable of making more than a handful of products that appeal to large numbers of buyers. Now Ford marketing has shown themselves incapable of supplying an existing product to customers who are literally asking for it. I’m sure there are plenty of “good reasons” for their reticence. I’m equally sure they're turning a slam dunk to a game losing around-the-rim-and-out."

Edited July 11, 2006 by Bluecon

[silvrsvt]

This begs the question to turn this around...why didnt UPS explore the posibitly of using a Econoline Van instead of a Sprinter? Also how big is the market for UPS/Fedex trucks vs what Ford is selling to general contractors etc with the Econoline?

 

The Transit is nice for what it is, but is there really room for them in the States?

[Bluecon]

This begs the question to turn this around...why didnt UPS explore the posibitly of using a Econoline Van instead of a Sprinter? Also how big is the market for UPS/Fedex trucks vs what Ford is selling to general contractors etc with the Econoline?

 

The Transit is nice for what it is, but is there really room for them in the States?

Those Sprinters are everywhere around here.

UPS and Fedex are using them and contractors.

With are government regs a cube van needs an annual inspection but a Sprinter doesn't.

[silvrsvt]

Those Sprinters are everywhere around here.

UPS and Fedex are using them and contractors.

 

I see UPS and Fedex using them, but in my locae I still UPS still using the older/larger Trucks for develeries

 

The only other users I see using them are mobile dog groomers

[swenson88]

I see UPS and Fedex using them, but in my locae I still UPS still using the older/larger Trucks for develeries

 

The only other users I see using them are mobile dog groomers

 

They are selling modestly, but in nowhere near the numbers of the Econoline, it's something like a 10:1 ratio. Are they even selling as well as the old Ram Van? When the Econoline finally gets updated someday I would like to see the Transit added to the lineup. At the moment it doesn't seem necessary by any means.

[jaydez]

The deal for the Sprinters by UPS, I heard, was made on a golf course between two friends. THe vans do not hold up to the abuse UPS puts them though and all the drivers think they are the bigges pice of junk the have. My mom work for UPS and she said out of the 15-20 only 5 or so are laft in service and the rest have essentially been junked. They had these trucks less than 5 years and have no plans to buy more.

 

UPS needs a VERY heavy duty truck for their sevice.

 

The reason most FedEx Home delivery trucks use the Sprinter is because most of them are private contractors from antther comany FrdEx bought. They havese these trucks becasue they can buy them pretty cheap.

[silvrsvt]

Ford has lost market-share and profits by resting on it's laurels before. I hope they learn their lesson and offer the transit sooner, rather than later.

 

 

When the Sprinter came over it replaced the Dodge RAM van and how much has it increased market share? Most Sprinters I've seen that are used by UPS/Fedex are Freightliners...not Dodges. Last time I checked Freightliner doesnt play in the same market as Ford. So all those sales aren't coming from Ford losing marketshare, because they don't even have a dog in that fight to start with.

[RichardJensen]

Sprinter demand is currently in excess of capacity. DCX is adding stateside Sprinter production.

 

I would, however, challenge Mr. Truth-about-cars know-it-all to prove his case with something other than the wisdom of hindsight. I'm sure Ford's fleet customers ask Ford for stuff ALL THE TIME. Failure to listen to these requests is not necessarily evidence of poor business strategy: As a counter example: suppose Ford brings over the Transit ahead of DCX and the Sprinter, and discovers that it only cannibalizes E-Series sales. Would bringing the Transit over make sense under those circumstances? Of course not.

[Biker16]

When the Sprinter came over it replaced the Dodge RAM van and how much has it increased market share? Most Sprinters I've seen that are used by UPS/Fedex are Freightliners...not Dodges. Last time I checked Freightliner doesnt play in the same market as Ford. So all those sales aren't coming from Ford losing marketshare, because they don't even have a dog in that fight to start with.

 

arrogance, They are reacting to the market not leading it.

 

 

Well you know by the time there is actually eneough sprinter capasity to meet demand and drive the price down to E-series levels. remember when DCX canceled the new sprinter plant in GA , Ford canceled it plant to make a global Van to replace the E-series and transit. basically a V8 capable transit, Ford in its great wisdom decided not to do it. you must be more agressive.

 

 

right now the sprinter starts at $30k

 

The E-series at 26k.

 

If the sprinter wasn't being imported it would cost alot less.

[Bob Rosadini]

As I have posted before, Ford has had Transits in test fleets here at least three years ago. I think the key difference between the Transit/Sprinter and the E seriesd is engine choices- small diesels in the Transit/Sprinter and gas V-8 power or Power Strokes in the E series. One sips fuel, the other two drink it. But if you are running max GVW and or pushing a lot of wind resistance with a box, you are not going to be happy with a small block diesel.

 

DCX's decision was easy- lousy sales with the outdated Ram- what was there to loose. ford on the other hand does very well still with the E. Would the Transit be a nice compliment? Yes. However as with everything else, only so much money to go around.

 

Bigger question I have, is what is with the LCF? I haven't seen any real marketing yet. International is spending far more marketing dollars on their version. Perhaps that's good- let them get the bugs out of it on their dime! And I still sccratch my head over the decision to build it. Talk to any Ford dealer. the E-550 was starting to get great acceptance and what do they do? Kill it.

[RichardJensen]

right now the sprinter starts at $30k

 

The E-series at 26k.

And your point is????????

 

A "Global van" to replace both the E-Series and the Transit would be the height of stupidity. Nothing like pretending the differences between Europe and the United States don't exist, just to make things look neat on paper.

[matthewq4b]

The easy solution is too add a transit type body on the E seires chassis. The new small diesel due in the F 150 will solve the small diesel problem.

 

The E seires can easly handle anouther body and with a proven Chassis and drive line there will be no surprises. Worst case senario the chassis would need its track widened but that is no biggie to do.

 

 

Matthew

[Hellcat_F6F]

I asked the UPS driver who delivered my daughters Dora the Explorer toddler bed today about the Sprinter. He grimaced and said they had alot of problems with them, and he personally had turned down delivery routes because of them.

[Biker16]

And your point is????????

 

A "Global van" to replace both the E-Series and the Transit would be the height of stupidity. Nothing like pretending the differences between Europe and the United States don't exist, just to make things look neat on paper.

:blah:

 

why not, what makes the US so different?

 

BTW Your reasoning wasn't the reason why It was cancelled, it was due to the need to spend resources in other areas.

 

The Van market has been stagnant for the past few decades.

[RichardJensen]

:blah:

 

why not, what makes the US so different?

Well, let's see. Ford has a stranglehold on the U.S. upfitters and chassis cab market. Dropping the E-series and expecting everyone to just up and go to a brand new architecture is ridiculous.

 

BTW, if you can't tell the difference between the U.S. and Europe, then you haven't spent enough time in either place. Maybe if you take a drive down I-80 all the way to San Francisco you'll kind of get the idea. A lot of places the advantages offered by the Transit are hardly advantages at all. Most urban centers W. of the Mississippi grew around the car. Maneuverability--even with a E-Series-based delivery truck is hardly an issue.

 

And yes, my argument against federalizing the Transit was that money can be better spent elsewhere on other priorities.

 

My argument against bastardizing both the Transit and E-Series to create a 'world van' is, "why"? The Transit is profitable, the E-Series is profitable. It is extremely unlikely that bastardizing each will yield more profits. In fact, it's likely to tick off scores of body builders who will simply go elsewhere, taking tons of business with them. Fundamentally, such a solution would result in a product with different (not less) shortcomings than either the E-Series OR the Transit.

 

Different suggestions, different arguments. Neat, eh?

Edited July 12, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

Well, let's see. Ford has a stranglehold on the U.S. upfitters and chassis cab market. Dropping the E-series and expecting everyone to just up and go to a brand new architecture is ridiculous.

 

BTW, if you can't tell the difference between the U.S. and Europe, then you haven't spent enough time in either place. Maybe if you take a drive down I-80 all the way to San Francisco you'll kind of get the idea. A lot of places the advantages offered by the Transit are hardly advantages at all. Most urban centers W. of the Mississippi grew around the car. Maneuverability--even with a E-Series-based delivery truck is hardly an issue.

 

And yes, my argument against federalizing the Transit was that money can be better spent elsewhere on other priorities.

 

My argument against bastardizing both the Transit and E-Series to create a 'world van' is, "why"? The Transit is profitable, the E-Series is profitable. It is extremely unlikely that bastardizing each will yield more profits. In fact, it's likely to tick off scores of body builders who will simply go elsewhere, taking tons of business with them. Fundamentally, such a solution would result in a product with different (not less) shortcomings than either the E-Series OR the Transit.

 

Different suggestions, different arguments. Neat, eh?

 

What will happen as always when nissan or DCX comes out with there new vans, and kicks Ford's van up and down "I80" you will understand.

 

and then some large brain will say, The product cycles are out of wack we must wait untill 2015 for a replacment, that IS the history of Ford.

 

What is stopping Ford from keeping the E-350-450 chassis around for many any years and replacing the "van" with a euro hybrid?????? Or dare I say have every upgrade to a new archtechture...... they will eithe buy the new ford, or retool to use the GM chasis... it is the same either way they retool.

 

Lighter weight,

more payload

better economy

much more interior space and cargo.

 

These are things only Europeans can use, :shrug:

[RichardJensen]

What will happen as always when nissan or DCX comes out with there new vans, and kicks Ford's van up and down "I80" you will understand.

Wait: Which argument are you advancing here?

 

The "let's bastardize the two best van platforms in the business" argument? Or the "Let's import the Transit argument"?

 

You've got my answers to both. Nothing you've said suggests that a) the minor chunk of the market staked out by DCX justifies the investment required to bring over the Transit NOW, as opposed to a few years down the road--ESPECIALLY since DCX put the kibosh on adding Sprinter capacity, or b ) a hybrid Transit/E-Series makes any sense at all.

 

BTW, why did DCX cancel the Sprinter plant? Maybe they did some market surveys and found that there wasn't enough demand. It's certainly not because DCX is scrimping on new product development.

 

Ford OWNS half of the fullsize van segment BECAUSE they are the chassis of choice for almost ever body builder out there. Do you honestly think that DCX can persuade these guys to adopt their MORE EXPENSIVE chassis just because it makes a better urban delivery platform?

Edited July 12, 2006 by RichardJensen

[swenson88]

right now the sprinter starts at $30k

 

The E-series at 26k.

 

That $26K figure you got I assume is from fordvehicles.com, and is only for the wagon model with windows all around and full seating inside. A E-Series cargo van which is what businesses would be using runs much less. With incentives you'll often see the E-Series going for less than $20K in cargo van form. Yes, I think Ford should offer the Transit here, but like the Sprinter it should be more of a premium cargo vehicle. The E-Series by no means should disappear.

[Biker16]

Wait: Which argument are you advancing here?

 

The "let's bastardize the two best van platforms in the business" argument? Or the "Let's import the Transit argument"?

 

You've got my answers to both. Nothing you've said suggests that a) the minor chunk of the market staked out by DCX justifies the investment required to bring over the Transit NOW, as opposed to a few years down the road--ESPECIALLY since DCX put the kibosh on adding Sprinter capacity, or b ) a hybrid Transit/E-Series makes any sense at all.

 

BTW, why did DCX cancel the Sprinter plant? Maybe they did some market surveys and found that there wasn't enough demand. It's certainly not because DCX is scrimping on new product development.

 

Ford OWNS half of the fullsize van segment BECAUSE they are the chassis of choice for almost ever body builder out there. Do you honestly think that DCX can persuade these guys to adopt their MORE EXPENSIVE chassis just because it makes a better urban delivery platform?

 

enough, what percentages of E-series sales are chasis? Vs Box vans.

 

The E-series is a weak product, it is waiting to be made obsolite.

 

180,000 units per year vs the sprinter's 10,000 in 2004 20,000 in 2005 and 32,000 in 2006.

 

all new sprinter in january of 2007, with a bigger engine, more powerful diesles and a 258hp

gas motor.

 

The new sprinter

 

You can ignore it for only so long. The chassis market will be the E-series savior, like the police market is for the panther.

[bolita]

enough, what percentages of E-series sales are chasis? Vs Box vans.

 

The E-series is a weak product, it is waiting to be made obsolite.

 

180,000 units per year vs the sprinter's 10,000 in 2004 20,000 in 2005 and 32,000 in 2006.

 

all new sprinter in january of 2007, with a bigger engine, more powerful diesles and a 258hp

gas motor.

 

The new sprinter

 

You can ignore it for only so long. The chassis market will be the E-series savior, like the police market is for the panther.

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like the E series is on the bottom of Ford NA priority list since it is selling well despite how old it is.

 

On the other hand, what is Transit's volume in Europe? Is it anywhere near Econoline? If Ford Europe found the money to update it (I may be wrong, but as far as I know Sprinter is No. 1 in Europe by far) due to eocnomies of scale whould seem logical to share some of the costs with NA, right?

[Michael Reynolds]

I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like the E series is on the bottom of Ford NA priority list since it is selling well despite how old it is.

 

On the other hand, what is Transit's volume in Europe? Is it anywhere near Econoline? If Ford Europe found the money to update it (I may be wrong, but as far as I know Sprinter is No. 1 in Europe by far) due to eocnomies of scale whould seem logical to share some of the costs with NA, right?

 

When you're scraping the bottom of the barrell for money, spending it on something like the E Series is not a wise move regardless if the costs are split. Ford does not have extra money to throw around on non-bread-and-butter products, especially those that are sold to very few retail customers.

[NickF1011]

When you're scraping the bottom of the barrell for money, spending it on something like the E Series is not a wise move regardless if the costs are split. Ford does not have extra money to throw around on non-bread-and-butter products, especially those that are sold to very few retail customers.

 

The E-series is definitely "bread and butter" to Ford. It's a pure profit vehicle that sells in pretty significant volume. If you'll notice, there are spy pics of a freshened E-series circulating as well. All-new front end at least. Hopefully the interior gets an overhaul as well. Not exactly a thorough makeover, but it shows they aren't ENTIRELY ignoring it (it's more than they've done to the Panthers or Ranger in awhile).

[RichardJensen]

enough, what percentages of E-series sales are chasis? Vs Box vans.

I'm guessing that the closed cab, open cab, and delivery chassis, combined are close to 3/4 E-Series volume--strictly based on what I see where I'm at. Very few E-Series seem to sell as work vehicles or people haulers (especially people haulers). Most of the E-Series that I see have aftermarket bodies (Ambulances, panel trucks, and delivery trucks). Not to mention the RVs that are built on the E-Series chassis.

[NickF1011]

I'm guessing that the closed cab, open cab, and delivery chassis, combined are close to 3/4 E-Series volume--strictly based on what I see where I'm at. Very few E-Series seem to sell as work vehicles or people haulers (especially people haulers). Most of the E-Series that I see have aftermarket bodies (Ambulances, panel trucks, and delivery trucks). Not to mention the RVs that are built on the E-Series chassis.

 

Eh, not so fast. Living in relative proximity to a major aiport, I see TON of E-series passenger vans used for shuttle buses. Of course, a fair share of them are also chassis cab shuttle buses with the larger "box" bus back-end on them.

[RichardJensen]

Eh, not so fast. Living in relative proximity to a major aiport, I see TON of E-series passenger vans used for shuttle buses. Of course, a fair share of them are also chassis cab shuttle buses with the larger "box" bus back-end on them.

My bad, should've specified that there are relatively few "Club Wagon" passenger vans around my area these days.