pmooret Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Folks, if this contract is voted down we do not automatically go out on strike as a lot of you apparently believe. If we vote down this contract they simply go back to the bargaining table. It hasn't been done for as long as I remember but that is how the process works. The only time a strike is called is if there is a stalemate or someone walks away from the table. Contract negotiations is like making an offer to buy a house (although the time frame is different), you always start out with a lower offer than what you are willing to eventually pay because you don't want to give more than the buyer is willing to accept. After all, why throw money out the window. I see all kinds of threads/posts on here based on the premise that if this contract is turned down we go out on strike but only see a few posters who even mention going back to the table. So for those of you who are afraid of or cannot afford to go out on strike please get informed as to how this process works. Do not take my word for it, ask your committeperson, president, building chairman or bargaining person. Please, please ask them. Ask several of them to compare their answers. You can also go on other forums. BON is not the only Ford forum and the UAW is not the only union. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Real? Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Folks, if this contract is voted down we do not automatically go out on strike as a lot of you apparently believe. If we vote down this contract they simply go back to the bargaining table. It hasn't been done for as long as I remember but that is how the process works. The only time a strike is called is if there is a stalemate or someone walks away from the table. Contract negotiations is like making an offer to buy a house (although the time frame is different), you always start out with a lower offer than what you are willing to eventually pay because you don't want to give more than the buyer is willing to accept. After all, why throw money out the window. I see all kinds of threads/posts on here based on the premise that if this contract is turned down we go out on strike but only see a few posters who even mention going back to the table. So for those of you who are afraid of or cannot afford to go out on strike please get informed as to how this process works. Do not take my word for it, ask your committeperson, president, building chairman or bargaining person. Please, please ask them. Ask several of them to compare their answers. You can also go on other forums. BON is not the only Ford forum and the UAW is not the only union. Listen dumb ass. There is a great chance we DO GO OUT ON STRIKE! We have been negotiating a lot since 2007 with the Mods, so I think it is fair to say that after 3 fucking months of negotiations, we ain't getting anymore unless we go out on strike. You are living in a fucking dream world if you think the bargainers will get more at the table if you vote no. If you vote no, grab a picket sign dipshit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Real? Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 thats done to scare people from voting no. No dumb ass, I think it is true. You have to be real fucked up in the head if you think "going back to the table" to get more is an option. Get your head out of your ass. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Nice....Feed those stereotypes...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE THAT FORD MOTOR COMPANY, GAINING MARKET SHARE EVERYDAY AND WITH THE PUBLIC ON THEIR SIDE BY NOT TAKING THE BAILOUT, WILL GO ON STRIKE OVER ALITTLE MORE MONEY EITHER IN BENEFITS OR COLA? HELL NO, IT WILL HURT THEM WAY MORE THEN THE WORKERS. THEY WILL UP THE OFFER AND SEND BACK OUT TO THE MEMBERSHIP. BAD PUBLICITY WORKS BOTH WAYS AND FORD DOESN'T WANT ANY THE WAY THEY ARE MAKING MONEY AND THEIR PUBLIC IMAGE. ITS NOT WHAT WE GAIN IN A POTENTIAL STRIKE, BUT WHAT THEY LOSE. SEND THIS SHIT BACK UP NORTH AND SEND US A REAL OFFER. Sorry for the caps but I am yelling at the screen...lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 thats done to scare people from voting no. I also expect to hear the threat ( if we vote no the company will not go back to the table, they will lock us out ) at the information meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Man Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I also expect to hear the threat ( if we vote no the company will not go back to the table, they will lock us out ) at the information meetings. Have you heard it? How do you know it's not true? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poop Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 HELL NO, IT WILL HURT THEM WAY MORE THEN THE WORKERS. THEY WILL UP THE OFFER AND SEND BACK OUT TO THE MEMBERSHIP. BAD PUBLICITY WORKS BOTH WAYS AND FORD DOESN'T WANT ANY THE WAY THEY ARE MAKING MONEY AND THEIR PUBLIC IMAGE. ITS NOT WHAT WE GAIN IN A POTENTIAL STRIKE, BUT WHAT THEY LOSE. What do they lose? You don't seem to understand that a lot of people blame the UAW for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler. I've said this on other threads and I'll say it again, I bet Mulally has a bunch of advertisements in his pocket that say something along the lines of "Ford didn't take the bailout money, now the UAW is trying to punish Ford (cut to UAW picket lines). Would you like a job making $16/hour making an American vehicle for an American company that DIDN'T take a bailout? Sign up at www.ford.com" Some lady posted on the Facebook page that if we strike over economic issues (i.e. COLA and wage increases) that the company can legally hire temps. It's fucked up, but it's true. So PR works both ways. Spin this headline: 10% UNEMPLOYMENT AND UAW WORKERS SAY 10K SIGNING BONUS NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP JOBS how are you going to spin that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatemyjob Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 What do they lose? You don't seem to understand that a lot of people blame the UAW for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler. I've said this on other threads and I'll say it again, I bet Mulally has a bunch of advertisements in his pocket that say something along the lines of "Ford didn't take the bailout money, now the UAW is trying to punish Ford (cut to UAW picket lines). Would you like a job making $16/hour making an American vehicle for an American company that DIDN'T take a bailout? Sign up at www.ford.com" Some lady posted on the Facebook page that if we strike over economic issues (i.e. COLA and wage increases) that the company can legally hire temps. It's fucked up, but it's true. So PR works both ways. Spin this headline: 10% UNEMPLOYMENT AND UAW WORKERS SAY 10K SIGNING BONUS NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP JOBS how are you going to spin that? Ill spin it like this...Ford CEO makes $86 million last year after telling workers they have to cut back. Workers are tired of giving back in order to give the CEO's their obscene salaries and bonuses." When that mother fucker takes a cut then he can ask us too. Until then he, IUAW and people like you can all go fuck yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE THAT FORD MOTOR COMPANY, GAINING MARKET SHARE EVERYDAY AND WITH THE PUBLIC ON THEIR SIDE BY NOT TAKING THE BAILOUT, WILL GO ON STRIKE OVER ALITTLE MORE MONEY EITHER IN BENEFITS OR COLA? HELL NO, IT WILL HURT THEM WAY MORE THEN THE WORKERS. THEY WILL UP THE OFFER AND SEND BACK OUT TO THE MEMBERSHIP. BAD PUBLICITY WORKS BOTH WAYS AND FORD DOESN'T WANT ANY THE WAY THEY ARE MAKING MONEY AND THEIR PUBLIC IMAGE. ITS NOT WHAT WE GAIN IN A POTENTIAL STRIKE, BUT WHAT THEY LOSE. SEND THIS SHIT BACK UP NORTH AND SEND US A REAL OFFER. Sorry for the caps but I am yelling at the screen...lol. Yes, I think Ford will fight to keep from raising their labor rate even higher than GM's & Chrysler's, let alone the transplants. Furthermore, I think they risk losing market share by giving in to demands like yours, and that can gain more market share by making it look like you're greedy and they're standing up to you. Sad, but true. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ill spin it like this...Ford CEO makes $86 million last year after telling workers they have to cut back. Workers are tired of giving back in order to give the CEO's their obscene salaries and bonuses." When that mother fucker takes a cut then he can ask us too. Until then he, IUAW and people like you can all go fuck yourself. Right, after LAP has a lottery, with four times as many people as they needed to fill the need for $16 an hour jobs. Sorry, pal, your spin won't work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) What do they lose? You don't seem to understand that a lot of people blame the UAW for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler. I've said this on other threads and I'll say it again, I bet Mulally has a bunch of advertisements in his pocket that say something along the lines of "Ford didn't take the bailout money, now the UAW is trying to punish Ford (cut to UAW picket lines). Would you like a job making $16/hour making an American vehicle for an American company that DIDN'T take a bailout? Sign up at www.ford.com" Some lady posted on the Facebook page that if we strike over economic issues (i.e. COLA and wage increases) that the company can legally hire temps. It's fucked up, but it's true. So PR works both ways. Spin this headline: 10% UNEMPLOYMENT AND UAW WORKERS SAY 10K SIGNING BONUS NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP JOBS how are you going to spin that? You're right, and you'd never, in a million years, convince people not to believe ads like that. I know for a certainty that market research shows an unwavering tendancy toward believing just that - that the UAW is to blame for GM & Chrysler's bankruptcies, that past management should have stood up to the demands, etc. And with unemployment seeming stuck at nearly 10%, no one gives a shit if Mullaly makes million, but they do think demands for past concessions to be returned, even in part, is unimaginably greedy. And those people with take their business to another car maker, probably a transplant. Edited October 9, 2011 by Len_A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Okay, i'm trying to be nice here. You think its true? or you know its true? Please don't call me a dumb ass if your still guessing. My understanding is that your 100% completely wrong. 1. I didn't find anything on UAW that insists on Strike after no vote. 2. What i found on other Union sights indicate that a no vote results in returning to the bargaining table. Now if you have some magical source that says we WILL go out, please link it so i can read it. Read this article if you believe the UAW can not go back to the table. http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSN1E79608020111009 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Have you heard it? How do you know it's not true? I do not know for sure it is not true. I have seen ford do some incredibly stupid things over the years. They would have a harder time spinning it to the media if they locked us out compared to us going on strike. Even if they did make the UAW look bad, If they loose customers because they hate the UAW they are still loosing customers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelincolns Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Folks, if this contract is voted down we do not automatically go out on strike as a lot of you apparently believe. If we vote down this contract they simply go back to the bargaining table. It hasn't been done for as long as I remember but that is how the process works. The only time a strike is called is if there is a stalemate or someone walks away from the table. Contract negotiations is like making an offer to buy a house (although the time frame is different), you always start out with a lower offer than what you are willing to eventually pay because you don't want to give more than the buyer is willing to accept. After all, why throw money out the window. I see all kinds of threads/posts on here based on the premise that if this contract is turned down we go out on strike but only see a few posters who even mention going back to the table. So for those of you who are afraid of or cannot afford to go out on strike please get informed as to how this process works. Do not take my word for it, ask your committeperson, president, building chairman or bargaining person. Please, please ask them. Ask several of them to compare their answers. You can also go on other forums. BON is not the only Ford forum and the UAW is not the only union. UAW workers at Oshkosh Corp, a defense contractor in Wisconsin, has turned down their contract twice already and are still working while negotiators go back to the table. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Read this article if you believe the UAW can not go back to the table. http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSN1E79608020111009 Great post LAP89, THANKS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP'er Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Listen dumb ass. There is a great chance we DO GO OUT ON STRIKE! We have been negotiating a lot since 2007 with the Mods, so I think it is fair to say that after 3 fucking months of negotiations, we ain't getting anymore unless we go out on strike. You are living in a fucking dream world if you think the bargainers will get more at the table if you vote no. If you vote no, grab a picket sign dipshit. Is that you chucky?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ford Low-balled us with the belief that the magic carrot (the "settlement"bonus) would be enough to get yes votes and get this passed. I'm sure Ford has a plan B that includes what else they could've given back but why show those cards if the workers are too dumb to ever want more and stick to their guns? it's like going to a car dealer and excepting the first number they give you.. the dealer like ford will laugh as you sign the paper on that first offer knowing they got one over on you, or in fords case MANY over on us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glow Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ford Low-balled us with the belief that the magic carrot (the "settlement"bonus) would be enough to get yes votes and get this passed. I'm sure Ford has a plan B that includes what else they could've given back but why show those cards if the workers are too dumb to ever want more and stick to their guns? it's like going to a car dealer and excepting the first number they give you.. the dealer like ford will laugh as you sign the paper on that first offer knowing they got one over on you, or in fords case MANY over on us. Finally..... The Truth! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I do not know for sure it is not true. I have seen ford do some incredibly stupid things over the years. They would have a harder time spinning it to the media if they locked us out compared to us going on strike. Even if they did make the UAW look bad, If they loose customers because they hate the UAW they are still loosing customers. Finally, someone else who see things as they really are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10 Digits Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Finally, someone else who see things as they really are. I agree with the posters who say we would go on strike. What is the use going back to the table? I also agree that we will lose a lot of sales, PR and goodwill. We will bankrupt the company and have to live with terms that GM and Chysler got in bankruptcy--if we are lucky! The Republicans control the House and I doubt they will give Ford any monies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP WORKER Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ford Low-balled us with the belief that the magic carrot (the "settlement"bonus) would be enough to get yes votes and get this passed. I'm sure Ford has a plan B that includes what else they could've given back but why show those cards if the workers are too dumb to ever want more and stick to their guns? it's like going to a car dealer and excepting the first number they give you.. the dealer like ford will laugh as you sign the paper on that first offer knowing they got one over on you, or in fords case MANY over on us. The IUAW which I at this point trust when they tell me that this deal would of been worse if they did not push on Ford is as good as it is going to get. Why delay getting the deal done and having to wait longer to get the money. It seems that most of the workers that are against this deal hate the company and have no respect for the UAW leadership. It must suck to have to go through life hating all of the time but that is I think just the way some people are wired. Our wages and benefits are already pretty rich for the blue collar world that we live in now. Alan makes what the going rate is for his type of job and we make probally more than the going rate. If Ford went first in the bargaining process then we may have been able to get a little more but since GM already ratified we have to stay close to their going rate to make our company seam like a good investment. I work for a great company and am proud of it. I want to hear good news in the media about my finacial provider. The fact that we do not have to pay for health care other than a small copay in this day and age is amazing. My life style would not even be close to how it is now if it were not for the existence of Ford Motor and the UAW. A few of the guys that I work with that were going to say no have said that they have changed their minds after actually reading the agreement. Do not be to proud to admit that your convition to voting NO might be in error. Start by trying to see the good in things instead of the bad. It is like being in a relationship with another person. You have to have some room for compromise or your life will suck ( UNLESS YOU GET OFF ON FIGHTING). LIke I said earlier some people are just plain HATERS and they will post a comment in response to my opinion filled with anger( and probally with high blood pressure and a red face) . This deal will most likely pass and maybe next time the economical factors will be favorable enough to get some greater gains. SOLIDARITY RULES. :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrIcecold Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The IUAW which I at this point trust when they tell me that this deal would of been worse if they did not push on Ford is as good as it is going to get. Why delay getting the deal done and having to wait longer to get the money. It seems that most of the workers that are against this deal hate the company and have no respect for the UAW leadership. It must suck to have to go through life hating all of the time but that is I think just the way some people are wired. Our wages and benefits are already pretty rich for the blue collar world that we live in now. Alan makes what the going rate is for his type of job and we make probally more than the going rate. If Ford went first in the bargaining process then we may have been able to get a little more but since GM already ratified we have to stay close to their going rate to make our company seam like a good investment. I work for a great company and am proud of it. I want to hear good news in the media about my finacial provider. The fact that we do not have to pay for health care other than a small copay in this day and age is amazing. My life style would not even be close to how it is now if it were not for the existence of Ford Motor and the UAW. A few of the guys that I work with that were going to say no have said that they have changed their minds after actually reading the agreement. Do not be to proud to admit that your convition to voting NO might be in error. Start by trying to see the good in things instead of the bad. It is like being in a relationship with another person. You have to have some room for compromise or your life will suck ( UNLESS YOU GET OFF ON FIGHTING). LIke I said earlier some people are just plain HATERS and they will post a comment in response to my opinion filled with anger( and probally with high blood pressure and a red face) . This deal will most likely pass and maybe next time the economical factors will be favorable enough to get some greater gains. SOLIDARITY RULES. :beerchug: SOLIDARITY DOES RULE!! I will still Vote NO Lets Not forget the Retires in this Tentative agreement The retires Deserve more than to just forget what they did for me & my Union Brothers The least they can do is bring back something for them, Remember with out them what would we have today? I plan on being one someday & I hope someone will NOT forget me slam me if you will but thats something we all will be one day ( I hope for all ) They fought for my future I will not forget them in this agreement Sorry... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SU-FI Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The IUAW which I at this point trust when they tell me that this deal would of been worse if they did not push on Ford is as good as it is going to get. Why delay getting the deal done and having to wait longer to get the money. It seems that most of the workers that are against this deal hate the company and have no respect for the UAW leadership. It must suck to have to go through life hating all of the time but that is I think just the way some people are wired. Our wages and benefits are already pretty rich for the blue collar world that we live in now. Alan makes what the going rate is for his type of job and we make probally more than the going rate. If Ford went first in the bargaining process then we may have been able to get a little more but since GM already ratified we have to stay close to their going rate to make our company seam like a good investment. I work for a great company and am proud of it. I want to hear good news in the media about my finacial provider. The fact that we do not have to pay for health care other than a small copay in this day and age is amazing. My life style would not even be close to how it is now if it were not for the existence of Ford Motor and the UAW. A few of the guys that I work with that were going to say no have said that they have changed their minds after actually reading the agreement. Do not be to proud to admit that your convition to voting NO might be in error. Start by trying to see the good in things instead of the bad. It is like being in a relationship with another person. You have to have some room for compromise or your life will suck ( UNLESS YOU GET OFF ON FIGHTING). LIke I said earlier some people are just plain HATERS and they will post a comment in response to my opinion filled with anger( and probally with high blood pressure and a red face) . This deal will most likely pass and maybe next time the economical factors will be favorable enough to get some greater gains. SOLIDARITY RULES. :beerchug: It has nothing to do with hating anyone, it has to do with the company getting concessions, turning a huge profit, giving bonuses and concessions back to management, then when it comes to the guys in the trenches they basically say screw you, enjoy your decade of no wage increases, and btw after you sign this you'll never get back what you gave up. Oh but wait, we'll give you 1k more then bankrupt companies got AND we'll let you have half your profit sharing early, hell you don't even have to be a Ford worker, you can be ACH and we'll give ya 6k too!, so make sure you sign on the dotted line, oh and you gave up lube in the concessions so supply your own, now bend over! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The IUAW which I at this point trust when they tell me that this deal would of been worse if they did not push on Ford is as good as it is going to get. Why delay getting the deal done and having to wait longer to get the money. It seems that most of the workers that are against this deal hate the company and have no respect for the UAW leadership. It must suck to have to go through life hating all of the time but that is I think just the way some people are wired. Our wages and benefits are already pretty rich for the blue collar world that we live in now. Alan makes what the going rate is for his type of job and we make probally more than the going rate. If Ford went first in the bargaining process then we may have been able to get a little more but since GM already ratified we have to stay close to their going rate to make our company seam like a good investment. I work for a great company and am proud of it. I want to hear good news in the media about my finacial provider. The fact that we do not have to pay for health care other than a small copay in this day and age is amazing. My life style would not even be close to how it is now if it were not for the existence of Ford Motor and the UAW. A few of the guys that I work with that were going to say no have said that they have changed their minds after actually reading the agreement. Do not be to proud to admit that your convition to voting NO might be in error. Start by trying to see the good in things instead of the bad. It is like being in a relationship with another person. You have to have some room for compromise or your life will suck ( UNLESS YOU GET OFF ON FIGHTING). LIke I said earlier some people are just plain HATERS and they will post a comment in response to my opinion filled with anger( and probally with high blood pressure and a red face) . This deal will most likely pass and maybe next time the economical factors will be favorable enough to get some greater gains. SOLIDARITY RULES. :beerchug: I think if you go back and reread some of these threads you will see a lot of the hate and name calling and offensive language is coming from the contract cheerleaders. Just sayin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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