Ford Seeks to Make Lincoln a Glamour Car Again

[Mark B. Morrow]

Oh good grief.

 

Look: This is, I promise you 100% a true image of a square inch of the NEW MKZ!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now everybody make insane assumptions about it for the next 300 pages!!!!!!!

 

 

It will never sell it looks too much like a Buick. Oh all is lost!

[BORG]

I like the sound of that for Lincoln and sends a message that Ford is serious about changing Lincoln.

 

Just wondering what Kuzak means by, "..designs that are stunning and understated and uniquely Lincoln inside and out.

What exactly is meant by understated, does it mean conservative styling - as in no bold design statements?

 

I'm confused about Buick and Cadillac and where Lincoln sits in relation to the pair of them...

 

It's meaningless, it's like "Dramatic and Purposeful" or "Edgy and Sophisticated".

Edited December 4, 2011 by BORG

[AR]

From the small piece of the car that is shown, I really like what I see so far. Without seeing the other parts of the car it is hard to tell, but I think this car is unlike any current or previous Lincoln. It seems to have a much sportier (almost exotic luxury) look about it that I never thought I would see on a Lincoln. This impression might change when I see the whole car, but for now, the rear of the car shows a great deal of promise.

 

As for the corporate/marketing speak about the Lincoln brand doing this or not doing this, please don't put too much into it. Let the new MKZ come out so you can form your opinion about Lincoln's direction. When that car is unveiled in Detroit next month, you will then be able to better judge Lincoln's future direction. This car, I believe, will show whether Ford is serious or not about Lincoln. We just have to keep watching for little sneak peaks here and there to keep our interest going.

 

I can understand the pessimism in this post. Many people have been burned over the years by Detroit executives stating that things have changed and the old way is being thrown out the door, only to see their optimism turn sour. Try growing up as a Chrysler fan if you want to see some true heartbreakers - you eventually become so pessimistic that you could care less about it. I think, and hope, that Mulally and his team will do Lincoln right. The engineering and quality need to be top notch right out of the gate for the MKZ. If there are any big problems, the press will certainly make it known.

 

Anyway, I am really looking forward to the first release of the MKZ in Detroit. I hope it is a stunner. :yup:

[jpd80]

It's meaningless, it's like "Dramatic and Purposeful" or "Edgy and Sophisticated".

Thank you, that's why what he said really didn't make sense to me...

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Lets hope its not a low rent FWD shitbox like the knob heads Mercury Mystique that gives ugly cars a bad name that helped finish of the Mercury Brand for good. It will be curtains for Lincoln.

 

 

 

EUROPEAN SALES NUMBER Jan-Sep

RWD Mercedes Benz C Class 126,347 sales up +22%

RWD BMW 3 Series 123,390

RWD BMW 5 Series 106,112 sales up +56%

RWD Mercedes Benz E Class 96,969

FWD Ford Mondeo 58,972 sales down -15%

Edited December 4, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds

[campbell53]

I've seen the new Fusion and I will admit that the front clip has a strong Aston Martin feel to it. The rest of the car not so much (not a bad thing though). It does not resemble the current Fusion in any way. So it is not evolutionary.....it's all new in my book. That can be good or bad. No one who hasnt seen the car will stop and say 'oh what a great looking new Fusion'. They will have to see the badging to know. There will be people who think it's too radical a departure since the current Fusion is selling well and generally highly regarded. I have not seen the new MKZ but I'm told it is also radically different. That's fine with me because the current car doesn't strike anyone as independantly striking or beautiful. Just a nice Fusion upgrade with lots of techy stuff and a good lease payment. A radical departure is needed here for the sake of the car's future. Although I did hear that Job 1 was pushed back because of some styling re-do. We will have 2013 Fusion sitting next to 2012 MKZ. Probably need to blow out the MKZ inventory before that happens.

Edited December 4, 2011 by campbell53

[Fgts]

[quote name='jpd80' timestamp='1322952191' post='748947'

From what I'm hearing, your 800 lb gorilla is more like a 3800 lb gorilla

Oh yes the new MKZ with awd, mlt, Lux features, turbo v6, advanced safety will weigh less then a 88 CRX..........

 

As for putting all of Caddy on fwd Ep II to save money, by 13' GM will have Impala, Lax, XTS, Regal, Mali on that platform that alone makes money, why do more?. Sigma failed costwise due to starting out as an Oldsmobile platform (yes that's what I said) and to be shared with other divisions ended up a expensive Cadillac only platform not because its rwd. The ATS is shared with the next Camaro an potential non-Caddy sedans/coupes, even Ford is combining the Mustang/Falcon to make a range of sedans and coupes. What makes people think in order to have a cost effective platform is automatically have to be fwd?.

[silvrsvt]

What makes people think in order to have a cost effective platform is automatically have to be fwd?.

 

Packaging is far easier with FWD vs RWD

 

 

 

 

[TomServo92]

What makes people think in order to have a cost effective platform is automatically have to be fwd?.

 

Why do you think most manufacturers utilize FWD for the majority of their products and even RWD stalwarts such as BMW and M-B, are considering FWD for their newer low-end products?

[Fgts]

Why do you think most manufacturers utilize FWD for the majority of their products and even RWD stalwarts such as BMW and M-B, are considering FWD for their newer low-end products?

 

With Ford and GM having a profitable fwd line-ups and aging rwds the methods used for the fwds ( like component and platform sharing among divisions, models) would work on ATS and Mustang based cars. Again I ask why a profitable platform automatically fwd?. BMW and Benz are using profits from their rwds to make those entry fwds due to market conditions not because thier rwds dont sell.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Fgts

[FordBuyer]

Packaging is far easier with FWD vs RWD

 

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and I would argue that a FULL LINE auto manufacturer needs both in their portfolio. The last time Ford tried to make Mustang into FWD Probe, they got an earful from their Mustang loyalists. And I believe most rumors that next Mustang platform will be shared and it will be RWD, not FWD. I have no problem with Ford running 80% of their car, small utility lineup as FWD, but there is a place for RWD even today whether it be large utilities like Expedition/Navigator, or performance cars. I would have liked to see large cars remaining RWD oriented, but hey, it is what it is. Whenever a Taurus police car gets into a front impact accident above 20mph or more, taxpayers are going to have to replace the whole fricking car. When I was a kid, I crashed my 1971 RWD Capri into a giant 70's T-Bird rear bumper at above 20mph, and although I pushed up my hood a lot, I could still drive it until I got it fixed and damage was minimal. Like I said, there is a place for RWD, and it's more than just about accident damage and replacement costs.

[TomServo92]

With Ford and GM having a profitable fwd line-ups and aging rwds the methods used for the fwds ( like component and platform sharing among divisions, models) would work on ATS and Mustang based cars. Again I ask why a profitable platform automatically fwd?. BMW and Benz are using profits from their rwds to make those entry fwds due to market conditions not because thier rwds dont sell.

 

Nobody said RWDs don't sell or aren't profitable. FWD is just easier to package. BWM and M-B are going to it on lower end cars in order simplify assembly and therefore lower costs.

[FordBuyer]

With Ford and GM having a profitable fwd line-ups and aging rwds the methods used for the fwds ( like component and platform sharing among divisions, models) would work on ATS and Mustang based cars. Again I ask why a profitable platform automatically fwd?. BMW and Benz are using profits from their rwds to make those entry fwds due to market conditions not because thier rwds dont sell.

 

 

Well stated. Some on here act like the whole automotive world would be just peachy if every vehicle including F-150, Expedition, Mustang, Corvette, CTS, 3 Series BMW, and so on were FWD based because packaging is easier. Yeah, the average driver probably doesn't know which axle the power is going to, and could care less, but there is a place for both even if FWD becomes the drive system of choice which it is. A basic understanding of physics gives RWD a place in any full line manufacturers portfolio. Some would rather be pushed by their drive system rather than be pulled especially when towing. And it would certainly look weird for a Corvette to have super wide tires on front with skinny tires on back and have to be pulled up a hill on a very hilly road racing circuit. Yes, RWD has its place in more than just a couple situations and applications. Long live RWD applications on both cars and trucks. AND I LIKE FWD TOO!

[RichardJensen]

Essentially, that is their mission statement which you can see here.

You will note, of course, that Kuzak defines Lincoln in terms of TWO luxury marques, not ONE, and that he refrains from describing them as _____-fighters

And lets not forget the fact you are quoting GM and Lutz editorially.

The ______-fighter is summoned in countless articles about GM products, and that's because it's the way GM has framed its products, even if it has never done so in press releases.

 

http://www.autospies.com/news/Is-Buick-The-American-Lexus-17412/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1034143_2012-buick-is-gm-building-an-american-lexus

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/07/business/fi-neil7

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/car-review-buick-lacrosse-the-great-american-lexus-2010038/

http://www.mibz.com/2072-buick-2010-lacrosse-an-alternative-to-lexus.html

http://www.motortrend.com/future/112_070604_cadillac_bmw_fighter/

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/16/cadillac-ats-to-show-how-much-gm-learned-from-the-bmw-3-series/

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/09/uh-bosscadillacs-already-better-than-bmw/1

https://blogs.motortrend.com/gm-vp-z28-coming-cadillac-gunning-for-bmw-nextgen-camaro-to-alpha-2619.html

“Our goal is Cadillac against BMW — very clearly. We will bring performance to these cars…and be on par or better than BMW.; That is our plan.”

http://legalnews.findlaw.com/article/0h1I3as68ggPK?q=Europe+OR+Asia+OR+Russia+OR+China+OR+Japan+OR+Germany+OR+England+OR+Africa+OR+Australia+OR+Canada+OR+Mexico+OR+%22South+America%22+OR+%22Latin+America%22+NOT+%22New+Mexico%22+OR+%22Middle+East%22+OR+Caribbean

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/10/gm-confirms-entry-level-cadillac-to.html

 

The last FORD vehicle to be positioned as a _____-fighter was the LS.

[TomServo92]

Well stated. Some on here act like the whole automotive world would be just peachy if every vehicle including F-150, Expedition, Mustang, Corvette, CTS, 3 Series BMW, and so on were FWD based because packaging is easier. Yeah, the average driver probably doesn't know which axle the power is going to, and could care less, but there is a place for both even if FWD becomes the drive system of choice which it is. A basic understanding of physics gives RWD a place in any full line manufacturers portfolio. Some would rather be pushed by their drive system rather than be pulled especially when towing. And it would certainly look weird for a Corvette to have super wide tires on front with skinny tires on back and have to be pulled up a hill on a very hilly road racing circuit. Yes, RWD has its place in more than just a couple situations and applications. Long live RWD applications on both cars and trucks. AND I LIKE FWD TOO!

 

I agree there is a place for both. I don't have an issue with FWD (owned several) but I do prefer RWD. We've decided to replace our aging Lincoln LS and it will most likely be replaced with another RWD.

[RichardJensen]

the methods used for the fwds ( like component and platform sharing among divisions, models)

One company has tried this and failed miserably at it. GM. Sigma is going away, to be replaced by Zeta, which was too big so now they've got Alpha because they botched Kappa by making it too small.

 

Know why, GM botched this--apart from managerial incompetence?

 

Because apart from trucks, RWD vehicles are specialty items, and specialty items by definition have special needs.

 

If you want the Mustang to weigh 4,000 lbs, by all means let's build the Mustang on the same platform as a full size luxury sedan (e.g. Challenger, 300; Camaro, Caprice).

 

Platform sharing is EASY with FWD because you've got small CUVs, wagons and sedans, midsize CUVs sedans and wagons and fullsize CUVs and sedans. You can share because you're not changing the weight or form factor significantly.

 

I leave you with this great question from Megan McArdle: "If Everyone Else is Such an Idiot, How Come You're Not Rich?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/if-everyone-else-is-such-an-idiot-how-come-youre-not-rich/249430/

Edited December 4, 2011 by RichardJensen

[FordBuyer]

Nobody said RWDs don't sell or aren't profitable. FWD is just easier to package. BWM and M-B are going to it on lower end cars in order simplify assembly and therefore lower costs.

 

How do you know it's going to be "simpler assembly" and less costly to manufacture MB and BMW vehicles? I doubt if that's the reason at all, and for all we know it will cost more and be harder to assemble. I would imagine in Northern urban areas, BMW and MB have lost sales because on snow the rear end of RWD BMW and MB don't stay planted and packaging is tighter. So they want to give their customers more choice and practicality. I don't know that a longer drive shaft and a rear diff adds untold complexity to assembly process. Ford builds far more F-Series trucks than any other vehicle in its lineup and makes more profit from it than any other vehicle it makes.

[FordBuyer]

I agree there is a place for both. I don't have an issue with FWD (owned several) but I do prefer RWD. We've decided to replace our aging Lincoln LS and it will most likely be replaced with another RWD.

 

So I take it you are leaving the Ford family unless you are buying F-Series or Mustang, two good choices. I do feel that FWD vehicles make great daily drivers, and that is why my daily driver will always be FWD and my second, fun car will always be RWD. I've given up hope on Ford doing a Fusion or Focus wagon, so my next daily driver when my Taurus starts showing old age will be a tall FWD Focus called the new Escape. So far though, my Taurus refuses to age. Not even a character line yet.

[joihan777]

Ford is seeking a softer, more sumptuous design for its Lincolns that grabs similar attention.

 

The MKZ reflects the direction Lincoln is heading.

 

As he showed off the car in the studio, Mr. Wolff homed in on its aesthetic touches: scooped-out door handles, tail lamps that extend the width of the car and unusual side mirrors set on flat pedestals. “They’re meant to be like beautiful little pieces of sculpture,” he said. “We want customers who appreciate that unexpected attention to detail.”

 

Mr. Kuzak said the mechanics of the new Lincolns were aimed toward the “progressive luxury customer.” Fuel economy, he said, will be critical, along with better handling, braking and all-wheel-drive and hybrid options.

 

Promising indeed!

[TomServo92]

So I take it you are leaving the Ford family unless you are buying F-Series or Mustang, two good choices. I do feel that FWD vehicles make great daily drivers, and that is why my daily driver will always be FWD and my second, fun car will always be RWD. I've given up hope on Ford doing a Fusion or Focus wagon, so my next daily driver when my Taurus starts showing old age will be a tall FWD Focus called the new Escape. So far though, my Taurus refuses to age. Not even a character line yet.

 

I don't use trucks as daily drivers and I am staying in the Ford family. More details to follow very soon. :-)

[TomServo92]

How do you know it's going to be "simpler assembly" and less costly to manufacture MB and BMW vehicles? I doubt if that's the reason at all, and for all we know it will cost more and be harder to assemble. I would imagine in Northern urban areas, BMW and MB have lost sales because on snow the rear end of RWD BMW and MB don't stay planted and packaging is tighter. So they want to give their customers more choice and practicality. I don't know that a longer drive shaft and a rear diff adds untold complexity to assembly process. Ford builds far more F-Series trucks than any other vehicle in its lineup and makes more profit from it than any other vehicle it makes.

 

It has to do with simpler packaging. The engine, transmission, and drive wheels are packaged into a single unit. It greatly simplifies assembly. If you simplify assembly, you lower costs. I seriously doubt BMW would potentially alienate their faithful unless there is a financial reason behind it.

[FordBuyer]

Promising indeed!

 

Hey, if the new MKZ looks as good or better than some of the new Audi A-Series vehicles, then Lincoln will get some much needed extra attention and look-sees. You do get the feeling that this new Lincoln will be impressive at least in the looks department which is most of the battle. And I would hope the retractable, glass roof carries over to the production version or at least it will have glass roof as option.

[Fgts]

One company has tried this and failed miserably at it. GM. Sigma is going away, to be replaced by Zeta, which was too big so now they've got Alpha because they botched Kappa by making it too small.

 

Know why, GM botched this--apart from managerial incompetence?

 

Why contradict yourself, we both agreed GM mismanage Sigma then said it was because it was rwd. Rwd have nothing to do with mismanagement, lets not forget the slow, painful death of the 2000-07 Taurus, Sable, Content (fwd mismanagement).

 

 

If you want the Mustang to weigh 4,000 lbs, by all means let's build the Mustang on the same platform as a full size luxury sedan (e.g. Challenger, 300; Camaro, Caprice).

 

Well get ready for that 4000 Lb Stang since its combing with Falcon.

 

Platform sharing is EASY with FWD because you've got small CUVs, wagons and sedans, midsize CUVs sedans and wagons and fullsize CUVs and sedans. You can share because you're not changing the weight or form factor significantly.

 

Again please point to me why this can't be done with rwd?.

 

[RichardJensen]

It has to do with simpler packaging. The engine, transmission, and drive wheels are packaged into a single unit. It greatly simplifies assembly. If you simplify assembly, you lower costs. I seriously doubt BMW would potentially alienate their faithful unless there is a financial reason behind it.

This.

 

You also get a greater amount of passenger space as a percentage of the vehicle's footprint.

 

See "If every one else is an idiot" commend above. The whole industry went FWD for quotidian vehicles for definite and defensible reasons.

[Edstock]

It has to do with simpler packaging. The engine, transmission, and drive wheels are packaged into a single unit. It greatly simplifies assembly. If you simplify assembly, you lower costs. I seriously doubt BMW would potentially alienate their faithful unless there is a financial reason behind it.

Indeed. And putting a liquid-cooled engine in the front is the cheapest way to do it, which was why the VW Up! concept car's rear-engine, RWD lay-out became FWD.

 

For smaller than C-size, FWD seems to be a little lighter than RWD, comparing the 1-series BMW to its FWD competition, and judging by the rumors of a BMW badge FWD sled between the MINI and the 1-series.

 

 

IMHO, Lincolns should be AWD (or RWD), the MKT fleet canoes can be whatever. FWD penny-pinchers can buy a Ford or a Cadillac. Lincoln is different.