RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Dude! The basic principles of Metro are already implemented in MFT!! Eliminate the gradients and faux 3D effects, switch fonts, and MFT becomes Metro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Owners who are upset and don't want the car any more because they buttons don't look 3d now? Seriously? This just confirms my suspicion that some people bought MFT equipped vehicles as a gadget and not as a vehicle - expecting it to act just like their smart phones and tablets. Of course there are bugs. Yes, they took away functionality. But they made it orders of magnitude more stable and faster for the vast majority of owners and I'm sure the functionality will be added back over time. Anyone who says it would be better to go back to the old version is simply delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 The problem with MFT was the application software and the fact it was written in Flash. None of that has anything to do with the underlying OS therefore moving the OS to Windows 8 won't make any difference. It still comes down to the application code. How in the hell did I miss that it was written in Flash? Seriously? Who in their right mind would do such a thing?!? I'm guessing B2's thoughts were that they could reuse what they learned and easily apply it to other platforms since it is Flash based? Wow, no wonder it sucked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I can't imagine anything resembling Metro appearing on a car dashboard. But the platform (and hardware profile), will be a substantial improvement. In a less jocular vein: two of the defining aspects of Metro and MFT are already aligned. MFT & Metro both rely more heavily on color as an orienting tool than other systems (Cadillac's CUE, for instance, or the system deployed by Toyota which are both icon based) By necessity, MFT relies on text more than UIs outside of the environment, whereas this is a design choice made with Metro. One area of concern (for me at least) is Metro's use of bright colors vs. the need to have displays that don't washout under bright light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Who in their right mind would do such a thing?!? A company made up of former Microsoft employees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I haven't added the buttons to this layout (e.g. skip forward/back, seat heaters, etc.), but this should give you an idea how close MFT is to Metro. Also, I didn't use Segoe. I used Helvetica Neue Light because I much prefer it, as you may have read earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Also, that layout should give you some idea why I'm so excited about this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 A company made up of former Microsoft employees? Ha ha...good point...but you would think they would be even LESS inclined to use Flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I haven't added the buttons to this layout (e.g. skip forward/back, seat heaters, etc.), but this should give you an idea how close MFT is to Metro. Also, I didn't use Segoe. I used Helvetica Neue Light because I much prefer it, as you may have read earlier. Looks great, Richard, and I think you've got the right idea! Time for you to do some WP 7/ Win 8 development? (you currently do CMS, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 How in the hell did I miss that it was written in Flash? Seriously? Who in their right mind would do such a thing?!? Most major players in the electronics industry do. Flash based UIs are quite common in embedded systems applications, including automotive. In conjunction with a good RTOS that supports adaptive/dynamic time partitioning, along with graphics APIs like OpenGL ES that are well suited to resource constrained systems, there's no reason why Flash based UIs cannot be implemented properly in an vehicle infotainment system (among other applications). Development and testing techniques to do just that are documented fairly extensively (e.g., solid fills vs. gradient; device fonts vs. embedded; optimising frame rates, alpha blending, and garbage collection/memory allocation, etc.) MyFordTouch's initial iteration does indeed suck, but Flash itself isn't the culprit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Looks great, Richard, and I think you've got the right idea! Time for you to do some WP 7/ Win 8 development? (you currently do CMS, right?) Ugh. I can barely write ColdFusion, let alone doing full scale app development. I'd be willing to do UI development, but don't want to move somewhere hip and adopt the hipster lifestyle in order to accomplish that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Flash itself isn't the culprit here. Yeah, Flash may not be the most overhead-friendly GUI engine out there, but it's not as bad as MFT made it look. MFT had a terrible codebase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Also, Windows Phone 7, which I believe they're referring to, shares its roots in Windows CE of which a similar kernel underpins past Windows Mobile devices. For the 7.0 Kernel, the CE codebase got a major ovehaul. Its not just the desktop Windows with a touch-friendly UI plastered on or a glorified app launcher, much in the way that Android is to Linux, but its a purpose built operating system, which also would explain WP7's superior performance... Correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding is that Windows Phone 7 was not just an overhaul, but a clean-sheet design, so it could leave the WinCE baggage behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Well, the MFT layout is not a 'grid of icons', it's already on its way to being a tiled layout. Also, I fully expect the layout to use 'live tiles', with real-time displayed in the home screen quadrants, etc. And a bit of a correction: The Metro interface is based on 50s and 60s Swiss modern graphic design, as filtered through current sensibilities (for instance, they use a humanist font instead of a gothic). It's not Art Deco. (BTW, I'm not a fan of their choice of Segoe as a font, but that's because I'm a cranky purist, and find the not-quite-humanist character of Segoe to be a sort of 'neither-fish-nor-fowl' beast. Also it reminds me vaguely of Antique Olive which I do not like at all) Doe! I just read it not long ago, but I cant remember where. As for the grid of icons statement, I meant in more of a UI paradigm rather than MFT. Compared to Metro, MFT looks so cumbersome with a mix of irregular, square, and rectangular shapes. There doesn't seem to be any logic with this design; no hierarchy. Its as if its forcing you to change your expectations. I quite like the Segoe font, I find more disturbing the lack of capitalization. My understanding is that Windows Phone 7 was not just an overhaul, but a clean-sheet design, so it could leave the WinCE baggage behind. It broke application compatibility with WinCE <6, but I believe WP7 uses a hybrid kernel. Windows Phone 7 is based on the Windows Embedded CE kernel – the next generation of the Windows Embedded CE platform will be Windows Embedded Compact 7 when released, and the current version is Windows Embedded CE 6.0 R3. Although Windows Phone 7 was built on the Windows Embedded CE kernel at its core, the Windows Phone team has incorporated innovative features and functionality on top of the platform to develop an OS specifically designed to meet the needs of mobile phone manufacturers http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/04/windows-phone-7-based-on-a-hybrid-windows-ce-6-compact-7-kerne/ Edited April 26, 2012 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Well, the missing/poorly implemented hierarchy is to be expected, more or less, given the priorities and experience of the MFT developers. It's a solid organizational concept that was given a rather cliched design. Sort of "Design is adding a gradient and 3D effect to something". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Not to go off, further, about this Metro thing, but..... --- Basically, the icon/desktop motif is ill-suited to smart phones and this type of device. We want information when we look at these screens, and we often want information from more than one source. The typical desktop idioms that feature big clocks, wallpaper (Android), cute 3D effects and heavily styled icons, etc. (iOS), don't satisfy because they don't provide what we're looking for: quick info. Compare the large simple numbers on the WP7 screen to the small cute numbers on the iPhone screen. Both show you how many messages you have, but one is far more easily accessed. Understand, I think PCs should retain the desktop idiom, and I continue to believe that OS X is the best UI out there. But I have to say that MS nailed all the things that bothered me about iOS and Android, which evinces a clear grasp of what people want from smart devices and how to present it. And, frankly, I am stunned by that. MS just did for smart phone UIs what OS X did for desktop UIs. Edited April 26, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Personally I find the whole touch screen interface to be a complete waste of time regardless of what brand or model of car it's in. Drivers should be paying attention to driving, not scrolling through screen after screen of icons and settings. The whole touch screen interface thing is just a flashy gadget to help sell cars but frankly I think they just result in distracted drivers. The technolgoy drive should be towards easier to use, not more involved. The voice command function does help with that but even then it can be a hassle to voice command navigate your way through option after option to get the one you want. Even that can result in distracted drivers, particularly when you don't get the option you want and end up resorting to using the touch screen. We've reached a point now where there is so much technology interaction in our cars that to some degree we have lost sight of the most important thing about driving a car. Driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Personally I find the whole touch screen interface to be a complete waste of time regardless of what brand or model of car it's in. Drivers should be paying attention to driving, not scrolling through screen after screen of icons and settings. The whole touch screen interface thing is just a flashy gadget to help sell cars but frankly I think they just result in distracted drivers. The technolgoy drive should be towards easier to use, not more involved. How is this any different then changing a station on the radio or putting in a CD? 90-95% of adjustments should be done when the car is stopped. The only thing you should have to worry about doing is changing the volume or station/song while your driving which you can do by hitting a control on the steering wheel. Most of the options that take away attention from driving, require you to stop the vehicle to operate them. Heck on even my MyColor dash it gave me a hard time if I wanted to change it while the car was in motion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Personally I find the whole touch screen interface to be a complete waste of time regardless of what brand or model of car it's in. Drivers should be paying attention to driving, not scrolling through screen after screen of icons and settings. The whole touch screen interface thing is just a flashy gadget to help sell cars but frankly I think they just result in distracted drivers. The technolgoy drive should be towards easier to use, not more involved. The voice command function does help with that but even then it can be a hassle to voice command navigate your way through option after option to get the one you want. Even that can result in distracted drivers, particularly when you don't get the option you want and end up resorting to using the touch screen. We've reached a point now where there is so much technology interaction in our cars that to some degree we have lost sight of the most important thing about driving a car. Driving. While certain tasks may become a hair more distracting due to the touch interface instead of a physical button, I feel that the touch interface (or at least some kind of video screen interface) will really be the only way to fit all of the vehicle's tasks into a central location moving forward. There are simply too many things in vehicles now to give everything its own physical button. I think your complaint is more with the amount of technology that has been added to vehicles, not the method in which you interface with it. To that degree, I can agree with you to a point, but hey, it's what customers are asking for. You can't fault automakers for providing it. Now, all that said, I've found that once you have the vehicle configured to your liking (which would generally be done when you first got into the vehicle, not while you're driving it), there really isn't a need for much interaction on the touch screen once you're on the road. Probably the most often used button I use on the touch screen after I'm already on the road is the "Similar Music" button on the Entertainment screen. Edited April 26, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I prefer the iOS method - it's easier for me to tell whether there are new messages at a glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I prefer the iOS method - it's easier for me to tell whether there are new messages at a glance. based on those little red blips? C'mon. That's like people saying that they couldn't hack OS X because it had the menu bar at the top of the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 based on those little red blips? C'mon. That's like people saying that they couldn't hack OS X because it had the menu bar at the top of the screen. Yes. I can see those little red blips at a very quick glance from several feet away and I don't have to read and interpret a number. It's not a huge deal but it's an effective visual cue. IMO of course. The other GUI could do something similar by changing the color of the large icon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yes. I can see those little red blips at a very quick glance from several feet away and I don't have to read and interpret a number. It's not a huge deal but it's an effective visual cue. IMO of course. The other GUI could do something similar by changing the color of the large icon. There isn't a '0' when you have no messages/missed calls, so you don't need to read or interpret the number, you just have to perceive a change in the icon, same as with iOS, only the icon is bigger and the change is bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I prefer the iOS method - it's easier for me to tell whether there are new messages at a glance. Dammit, I have to disagree with you, you MS hater! Having one of each, I definitely prefer WP7. Not just because it is MS, but because of the exact reasons RJ mentions. It is just more clear and concise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I guess I'd have to see it in action then to see the difference - maybe it is better live. But I still like the look of the iOS interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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