Ford Painfully Absent in Dover

[97svtgoin05gt]

While Toyota, Chevy and Dodge all had humongous displays this past weekend in Dover Delaware at the Monster Mile, Ford was painfully absent among them. I'm not quite sure why Ford would choose not to display in such a gearhead arena as a NASCAR event that large especially with all their competitors out there in force.

[FordBuyer]

Looking at the TV screen of race, spectators looked painfully absent as large stretches of seats seemed empty. Thought I was watching an Oakland A's baseball game with all the stands missiing bodies.

[akirby]

Let the other MFRs waste their money. Ford is smarter than that.

[boominup]

Looking at the TV screen of race, spectators looked painfully absent as large stretches of seats seemed empty. Thought I was watching an Oakland A's baseball game with all the stands missiing bodies.

When nascar allowed Toyota to race as an American brand, I quickly lost all interest in it. My wife and I and the kids would spend $$$$$ Thousands every year following our favorite drivers. Lo and behold, I saw some of the results of this with all the empty seats yesterday...used to be Dover was an SRO race! Oh well, guess there are more people than we that feel the same way. The Toyota fans say "But the Camray is built in the US...to which I answer Where does the money go???" Haven't spent a dime in the past 5 years....more money to enjoy my Mustang GT Convertible!! PS...I still have a soft spot for Carl Edwards even though he's in a real uphill battle in the points race!

[akirby]

When nascar allowed Toyota to race as an American brand, I quickly lost all interest in it. My wife and I and the kids would spend $$$$$ Thousands every year following our favorite drivers. Lo and behold, I saw some of the results of this with all the empty seats yesterday...used to be Dover was an SRO race! Oh well, guess there are more people than we that feel the same way. The Toyota fans say "But the Camray is built in the US...to which I answer Where does the money go???" Haven't spent a dime in the past 5 years....more money to enjoy my Mustang GT Convertible!! PS...I still have a soft spot for Carl Edwards even though he's in a real uphill battle in the points race!

 

Where was it written that NASCAR was restricted to American automobiles? And the Camry has as much right to be there as all the other non production based spec vehicle.

[FordBuyer]

Where was it written that NASCAR was restricted to American automobiles? And the Camry has as much right to be there as all the other non production based spec vehicle.

 

Next year can't come soon enogh when the NASCAR racers look more like the production cars they are named after instead of stick on decals to mimic them. They also have to quit calling caution flags near end of race everytime a piece of paper or cup blows onto track called "debri." Then some driver who was in 19th place with 20 laps to go ends up coming out of nowhere and wins the race while the smuck who led 220 laps and had the fastest car all night ends up in 5th place because he finally had one bad restart. Get tired of watching that NASCAR BS.

[aneekr]

Haven't spent a dime in the past 5 years..

 

Smart move - that's many fewer dimes spent enriching the France family. If they ever attempt to inject some common sense into their racing series as FordBuyer described above - and truly honor rather than insult the Southern U.S. origins of the sport by making the Confederate Navy Jack or Beauregard's Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag design an official, sanctioned component of their events - I may actually follow it again. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, though.

[Edstock]

and truly honor rather than insult the Southern U.S. origins

 

Well, the origins were in taking stock production cars and making them work.

 

When Detroit switched to FWD, that's what they should have MADE work, if the team engineers and mechanics had been "true" to NASCAR's real origins. But the France family and the NASCAR teams are only concerned about the "show", and we got headlight decals.

 

Run real-world ride-heights, not vacuum cleaner floor-height. Stock cars. That gets rid of ground effects.

[boominup]

Where was it written that NASCAR was restricted to American automobiles? And the Camry has as much right to be there as all the other non production based spec vehicle.

Do you know what "NASCAR" means?? There are racing series where American cars compete with foreign makes...should I name a few? I have nothing against Camry competing against Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and what not, let them compete there. Nascar has turned too political and politically correct for me, "hence, not another dime"!

[Edstock]

Do you know what "NASCAR" means?? There are racing series where American cars compete with foreign makes...should I name a few? I have nothing against Camry competing against Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and what not, let them compete there. Nascar has turned too political and politically correct for me, "hence, not another dime"!

 

It seems you don't.

 

 

Wiki says

 

The name originally chosen for the series was National Stock Car Racing Association; when it was pointed out that that name was already in use by a rival sanctioning body, "National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing", proposed by mechanic Red Vogt, was selected as the organization's name.

 

You will note that there is no specification of car origin.

 

That's why Bill France allowed non-American cars to compete.

 

Al Keller was the first NASCAR win in a foreign-built car, in 1954, in a Jaguar.

 

Al Keller participated in the NASCAR Strictly Stock series from 1949 to 1956 with 29 career starts. He won two races during the 1954 season and is the only driver in the history of NASCAR's top division to have won a race in a foreign-built car, winning the 1954 Grand National road-race at the Linden Airport in New Jersey, driving a Jaguar.

 

 

And the Toyotas are made in America, unlike the Jaguar that Bill France had no problem over.

[akirby]

What Edstock said.

[97svtgoin05gt]

There were a lot of empty seats, not as many as last year but still many. This problem they have started when the car of tomorrow was introduced. Attendance has been steadily decreasing since that point. From the moment the COT made its debut, it was evident that Chevy and mostly the Hendrick organization had a huge advantage in the new cars. It has been that way since and I believe that is a big reason for the lack of attendance. You combine that with the crappy economy, big fuel and lodging prices and you have a recepe for disaster. I've been to Bristol several times too. That place is ALWAYS sold out. Not in the most recent years. Bristol is making changes to the track to try and reinvigorate attendance but I fear they'll fall short. The car of tomorrow is a disaster and they should come up with a new racing platform before NASCAR is deceased.

 

Still kind of surprised Ford wasn't there though.

[FordBuyer]

There were a lot of empty seats, not as many as last year but still many. This problem they have started when the car of tomorrow was introduced. Attendance has been steadily decreasing since that point. From the moment the COT made its debut, it was evident that Chevy and mostly the Hendrick organization had a huge advantage in the new cars. It has been that way since and I believe that is a big reason for the lack of attendance. You combine that with the crappy economy, big fuel and lodging prices and you have a recepe for disaster. I've been to Bristol several times too. That place is ALWAYS sold out. Not in the most recent years. Bristol is making changes to the track to try and reinvigorate attendance but I fear they'll fall short. The car of tomorrow is a disaster and they should come up with a new racing platform before NASCAR is deceased.

 

Still kind of surprised Ford wasn't there though.

 

The MIS race is coming up quickly, and I'm being bombarded by Emails and in mailbox by offers from MIS for the race. You can tell they are desperate to fill seats. They normally get attendance of 165,000 or so, and still do, but it takes cut rate ticket prices to do it now. Yeah, hotel room prices are through the roof and getting worse. I will be at the PCA club race that weekend, and I have to pay $175/night for some dingy Holiday Inn Express motel room in a small town of MI off Lake Michigan that probably sells the room for $70 the rest of the year. Hotel owners know how to gouge your eyes out during special events.

[Stentgraft95]

Gouging is certainly a problem but many of the other issues raised here are truly valid points. I've also heard that the economy is responsible for crippling the sport but the biggest issue I have is that it's a terrible product. I went to my first NASCAR race in 1973 and I was really a huge fan throughout the 90's. Aside from the crappy cookie-cutter "Car of Tomorrow" with the head light and tail light stickers, it's the blatant favoritism toward the so-called stars and inconsistent rulings. I was always a huge Jimmy Spencer fan but the whole deal between him and Kurt Busch at Michigan some years ago forced me to finally break my NASCAR addiction. I've never looked back and won't until they overhaul the sport and give it a major facelift.

[FordBuyer]

Gouging is certainly a problem but many of the other issues raised here are truly valid points. I've also heard that the economy is responsible for crippling the sport but the biggest issue I have is that it's a terrible product. I went to my first NASCAR race in 1973 and I was really a huge fan throughout the 90's. Aside from the crappy cookie-cutter "Car of Tomorrow" with the head light and tail light stickers, it's the blatant favoritism toward the so-called stars and inconsistent rulings. I was always a huge Jimmy Spencer fan but the whole deal between him and Kurt Busch at Michigan some years ago forced me to finally break my NASCAR addiction. I've never looked back and won't until they overhaul the sport and give it a major facelift.

 

What's tough to watch is a guy like Greg Biffle have the fastest car all race and leave everything out there on track for three hours, and finally build a lead of 4 seconds or so with 7 laps to go, and then have a caution flag for "debri" on corner four and then have to decide whether to come in or stay out or to put two tires or four tires on. Then he wins restart, builds a two second lead, and another caution flag becaue of a paper cup or whatever, and then another restart where he spins his tires and ends up in 6th place after bleeding blood and guts all over the track for four hours. And the winner is a guy who never even led one lap of the race until final 100 yards and was in 15th place with 10 laps to go. NASCAR is such that on most tracks final 5 laps is like horse race with about any car from 1-15 winning, especially if it has Chevy stickers. It's weird because Ford seems to have the strongest motor, but for whatever reason can't seem to make the proper adjustments as the race track changes or those stupid, phantom yellow flags do them in.

[RichardJensen]

Smart move - that's many fewer dimes spent enriching the France family. If they ever attempt to inject some common sense into their racing series as FordBuyer described above - and truly honor rather than insult the Southern U.S. origins of the sport by making the Confederate Navy Jack or Beauregard's Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag design an official, sanctioned component of their events - I may actually follow it again. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, though.

The fact that you disguised your reference to the confederate flag thus, is, IMO, ample evidence of how stupid it would be to include it in NASCAR events----and how incredibly, incredibly, stupid it would be to include it in events that take place well outside the "CSA".

 

Honoring the south by paying 'tribute' to the most dishonorable aspect of southern history? Wow.

[blksn8k2]

What's tough to watch is a guy like Greg Biffle have the fastest car all race and leave everything out there on track for three hours, and finally build a lead of 4 seconds or so with 7 laps to go, and then have a caution flag for "debri" on corner four and then have to decide whether to come in or stay out or to put two tires or four tires on. Then he wins restart, builds a two second lead, and another caution flag becaue of a paper cup or whatever, and then another restart where he spins his tires and ends up in 6th place after bleeding blood and guts all over the track for four hours. And the winner is a guy who never even led one lap of the race until final 100 yards and was in 15th place with 10 laps to go. NASCAR is such that on most tracks final 5 laps is like horse race with about any car from 1-15 winning, especially if it has Chevy stickers. It's weird because Ford seems to have the strongest motor, but for whatever reason can't seem to make the proper adjustments as the race track changes or those stupid, phantom yellow flags do them in.

 

With the change for the 2013 season to a more "production" appearing body along with the addition of Penske Racing to the Ford ranks things could be looking up for next year. While I would never say that Richard Petty Motorsports, Front Row Motorsports, Wood Brothers Racing and all the other under funded Ford teams are not helping Ford's cause, the fact is that they are not in the same league as Roush Fenway, Hendrick, Richard Childress, Stewart Haas or Joe Gibbs. Penske will give Ford another strong team and that is exactly what Ford has been lacking. Let's face it, all of the smaller Ford teams buy their stuff from Roush which doesn't do much for development.

[aneekr]

The fact that you disguised your reference to the confederate flag thus, is, IMO, ample evidence of how stupid it would be to include it in NASCAR events----and how incredibly, incredibly, stupid it would be to include it in events that take place well outside the "CSA".

 

Honoring the south by paying 'tribute' to the most dishonorable aspect of southern history? Wow.

 

Wow indeed. "Disguised"? If my flag descriptions were inaccurate or vague, please explain (and apologies if so). How much more specificity do you want? Should I call in a trained vexillologist?

 

Way to insult me and my ancestors (whose lineage goes back colonial Virginia) who fought bravely for the CSA and to all who love the Southland, its culture, and the civilization it represents. You're in good company - it's what the useless, politically correct modern day France family and the rest of NASCAR leadership would do, as well.

Edited June 5, 2012 by aneekr

[akirby]

Way to insult me and my ancestors (whose lineage goes back colonial Virginia) who fought bravely for the CSA and to all who love the Southland, its culture, and the civilization it represents.

 

So you think fighting and killing your fellow countrymen for the right to keep slavery was honorable? I think the slaves would disagree.

[RichardJensen]

Wow indeed. "Disguised"? If my flag descriptions were inaccurate or vague, please explain (and apologies if so).

You can disguise something without being inaccurate or vague.

 

You can say, "The apartment has seen periodic co-option by Periplaneta americana" Or you can say, "The apartment has had roaches in the past."

 

You opted to use exceedingly technical references when such were absolutely not necessary--as we all know exactly what "the confederate flag" is. The only purpose I can imagine was to disguise your wish: "I want confederate flags officially part of Nascar events."

 

Furthermore, you cannot choose your ancestors, so it is beyond pointless to brag about them or apologize for them. Or take offense if one questions the cause for which they fought. Going back still farther, would you take umbrage at criticism of the crusades, if some noble ancestor of yours had taken part in the slaughter of Muslims in Jerusalem? At what point should you stop taking criticism of the past personally?

 

Not only that, the Civil War was fought about slavery. No amount of whitewashing, no amount of doctoring, no amount of anything can take that away.

 

If there was not an overwhelming perception that it was acceptable for one person to own another--PROVIDED that the other was of a visibly different race--there would have been no Civil War.

 

Without taking anything away from whatever isolated acts of courage and bravery can be offset against the far larger sum of death, destruction, hatred, enmity, bloodshed and evil imposed by that war, the war was fought to preserve the "right" of one person to dehumanize another, to treat another person, his born equal, as something subhuman. It was a disgusting practice that was only ended by a horrible war. And only the practice was ended. Even today, it is all but impossible for either blacks or whites to escape the sense of 'otherness' that two centuries of slavery and a further century of lynchings, segregation, and sustained prejudice have imposed.

 

There is much worth remembering about that war, but there is damn little honor attached to it.

Edited June 5, 2012 by RichardJensen

[97svtgoin05gt]

"Houston, can you please verify what I'm seeing on my display...its really becoming quite blurred...over"

[RichardJensen]

On topic, more or less: I see where Busch was suspended for violating Rule 12-1 ("actions detrimental to stock car racing").

 

 

I'd like to see the France family and ISC suspended for violating that rule.

 

More on point, with a finite ad budget, I think Ford views advertising at Nascar events as a way to induce purchases from established customers, in which case it becomes a question of how many Ford customers are going to be at the event, and judging by what seemed to be very low turnout, I can't really fault Ford for staying away.

 

Ford has never had an infinite ad budget, but they seem lately, to have finally started acting like it--that is, picking and choosing their spots.

[FordBuyer]

Wow indeed. "Disguised"? If my flag descriptions were inaccurate or vague, please explain (and apologies if so). How much more specificity do you want? Should I call in a trained vexillologist?

 

Way to insult me and my ancestors (whose lineage goes back colonial Virginia) who fought bravely for the CSA and to all who love the Southland, its culture, and the civilization it represents. You're in good company - it's what the useless, politically correct modern day France family and the rest of NASCAR leadership would do, as well.

 

Just finished the biography of Robert Moseby, "The Grey Ghost." Very good book about this unbelievable guerilla Confederate soldier/leader that blended in and out of the battle. Never caught by the Union Army even though they tried for years. He was a Virginian Lawyer who joined the Confederates only because Virginia seceded from the Union. The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong studied Moseby's war tactics, he was that good. Moseby ended up dying way into the 20th Century of old age. He was shot a couple times, but Confederate houses would hide him until his wounds healed. He ended up living well into his 80's. Probably greatest American war hero ever to live including Audie Murhpy. Greatest battle he ever fought is he and a few other soldiers were holed up in farm house with hundreds of Union soldiers surrounding it, and Moseby fought his way out killing the Union leader first, and then picking off scores of other one's at a time as they panicked seeing their leader killed first. Even though I'm a Yankee, gotta love a guy like that.

[FordBuyer]

Moseby was also first to do cavalry charges with pistols instead of sabres and shoot from very close range. Union Army couldn't match him. And they couldn't catch him no matter how hard they tried, and they tried and tried. He would even go behind enemy lines at night not far from the capital and kidnap Union Generals.

[timmm55]

Dover? When I read the head line I though Ford missed a car show in England LOL.

NASCAR.......pfft....,don't care.