blksn8k2 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I know, I know, on this board this subject is forbidden. But guess what? There are still people who would like a straight answer. I also realize that no one at Ford will be willing or able to tell the truth. What is the truth? That Ford decided to hell with all those loyal Ranger and Sport Trac buyers? That Ford decided they could make enough profit selling fewer HUGE trucks than a mix of reasonably sized trucks along with the behemoths? I guess all of those who want a real truck in a size they can live with will have to buy some other brand until Ford starts losing too much market share by offering only one size...HUGE. By then those same people will realize that there are other brands that are just as good if not better than Ford and will never come back even if Ford does decide to once again compete in this market. Too bad. And this really makes no sense at all. The T-6 Ranger would be a much better alternative for most recreational truck buyers than what Ford offers now. I have heard every excuse from everyone who wants to defend Ford's decisions to the death but every one of those excuses are just that...excuses. Ford offers multiple size vehicles in every category but trucks and seems to be able to make profits on all of them. Why not trucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 They aren't excuses - they're reasons. If you can get past your emotions long enough to actually listen to them you'd see they're good reasons even if they're not popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford850 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I think the Ranger will be back soon. It's been spotted in MI, so obviously someone is testing it here for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 A lot of non U.S. vehicles get tested in the states. Doesn't mean it will be sold here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I for one appreciate those willing to keep bringing up this topic. Hard to figure whether it is reasons, excuses, really what other than poor product planning? Ford is one of the most successful automotive manufacturers in the world. They have a strong, loyal customer base mostly built by truck owners. Hard to figure there could not be a way to bring to market for some of these loyal customers something close to what they really want that is smaller than the current F-150. The F-150 was fine as a personal use vehicle for many years. We have owned many and still own two. But, for some of us, the recreational, personal use market started to go away with the added pounds and overall size increase with the 2004 re-design. Basically turning it into an almost F-250. Guess it is great for the towing crowd, but some of us will demand something smaller. And hopefully more fuel efficient and fun to drive. And easier to live with everyday both in town and on the weekends. Yes, we'll likely be shopping elsewhere for the next truck. And trying to keep the old ones running while we hope for a little change of heart from Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 What's more important? Hanging on to a FEW loyal customers (shrinking every year) or bringing in thousands of new customers with products like the new Escape and the new C-Max hybrids? Of course it was poor planning that got to them to this point. Blame Bill Ford for not bringing Mulally in earlier. They didn't have a backup plan when small truck sales went South and that left them with a vehicle they couldn't afford to keep. So now you have to wait and be a little patient and see what happens over the next 2 years. You may not like the result but it's almost certain that Ford will offer something for small truck lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Honestly, I agree with most of what you say. But you don't address the big poundage and size increase of the F-150. It has turned into some kind of different vehicle. We can argue that all day, but I think the latest efforts with the 3.5 Eco motor might reveal some info. Literally trying to take an over-bloated vehicle and turn it into a monster with a rather small V-6. The turbo-charging and direct injection is coming technology, but please - in this application, put it in a smaller, lighter truck. And, I know. All the other forums don't mean anything to anyone being defensive, but maybe the latest TSB (just released) trying to address problems with this 3.5 engine might matter. It's just too small for this application of weight and size despite what I am about to think is pretty good engineering. I can only dream if Ford had offered this engine in the T-6 Ranger for North America. Not just poor product planning but worse. Ford had the right vehicle (T-6) and they chose to not use it and instead tried to throw money anywhere and everywhere at the F-150. More bucks with a $40K + vehicle. And, frankly, I don't think it's working very well. Way too much chatter out there on any forum you want to choose about Ford's prized F-150 to ignore. It started mostly with the 2011 redesign. The problems are not just Eco - they include what is beginning to look like a rather problematic 6-speed tranny, the electronic steering and even works back into A/C under performance - that one maybe mostly due to the little Eco engine. OK - I could go on because I would like to like the new F-150 inspite of its weight and size. Was a little excited early on about the EcoBoost V-6. Will not touch one either new or especially used now. Ford really needs to fix this situation quickly. They are trying but two years is a long wait. The F-150 is too big and too heavy for the latest applications of engine/tranny unless you get the big 6.2 V-8 - which is F-250 territory. And there is no other choice for those of us wanting personal use vehicles from Ford. We are left out of the mix and so far, hanging on for a little hope from Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Don't blame Ford for giving consumers what they wanted to buy. Sales couldn't be better. Stupid Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Maybe we have figured out the problem. The F-150 has become a replacement for the big rear-drive family cars and often does double duty for hauling the camper in the summer. For that, I applaud Ford. Maybe that was the plan all along. And make lots more money along the way too. But where does that leave us buyers that actually really need a half-ton truck? And, use them as trucks? Ford has done a great job of building the most luxury and comfort into their F-150. Fine - if we had a choice for something to buy other than an F-150 or SuperDuty. No choice here for us - rarely carry people, just need a decent back seat. We do need to often haul stuff though and tow a 4,000 pound boat. And, yes - most of the people that complain about the current F-150 are actually trying to use it as a truck. As it was advertised to do? Not questioning the Ford economic decisions here - I am an accountant. Just how are they going to hang on to the "real" customer truck base with these current and way too limited product offerings? Guess we'll all see how it plays out. In my mind, Ford is making a way too big gamble here. They aren't the only ones out there and they act like they are - long time customer loyalty must matter at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Not questioning the Ford economic decisions here - I am an accountant. Just how are they going to hang on to the "real" customer truck base with these current and way too limited product offerings? Ford has "held on" to the real customer truck base by upgrading the F150 and keeping it competitive with Toyota, Dodge and GM. Why do you think all those other full sized trucks are also larger with bigger engines? Because that's what the market has been demanding. You act like Ford is doing something different when in fact they're just following consumer demand and keeping up with the market. It's just not the market that you want it to be. Seriously - how can you argue with sales figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 What's more important? Hanging on to a FEW loyal customers (shrinking every year) or bringing in thousands of new customers with products like the new Escape and the new C-Max hybrids? Misleading. Small truck sales crashed during the economic collapse of 2008. Every manufacturer put firesale pricing on their full-size trucks to prop up sales. It's hard to move an old, low content small truck when the 1/2 ton sitting next to it with tons of options is the same price after incentives. Small truck sales have rebounded, despite the lack of updates in the segment. For example, Nissan Frontier (last updated 2005) sales have increased 20% every year since 2009. Hell, even Ranger sales spiked from 55k to 71k in 2011 and that's a 13 year old design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ford has "held on" to the real customer truck base by upgrading the F150 and keeping it competitive with Toyota, Dodge and GM. Why do you think all those other full sized trucks are also larger with bigger engines? Because that's what the market has been demanding. You act like Ford is doing something different when in fact they're just following consumer demand and keeping up with the market. It's just not the market that you want it to be. Seriously - how can you argue with sales figures? What figures? Tacoma outsells Tundra by over 20%. Frontier outsells Titan better than 2:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Misleading. Small truck sales crashed during the economic collapse of 2008. Every manufacturer put firesale pricing on their full-size trucks to prop up sales. It's hard to move an old, low content small truck when the 1/2 ton sitting next to it with tons of options is the same price after incentives. Small truck sales have rebounded, despite the lack of updates in the segment. For example, Nissan Frontier (last updated 2005) sales have increased 20% every year since 2009. Hell, even Ranger sales spiked from 55k to 71k in 2011 and that's a 13 year old design. Misleading? Small truck sales have been trending downward since a lot longer than 2008. For the Ranger "spike" you should probably look at last-stab fleet buyers who wanted them cheap before they were discontinued. If Ford saw significant growth opportunity in the segment, they simply would not have left it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) What figures? Tacoma outsells Tundra by over 20%. Frontier outsells Titan better than 2:1 Yeehaw. The two best selling small trucks outsell the two worst selling full size trucks. And the Fiat 500 outsells the Suzuki Kizashi. What does that prove? Edited June 12, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeehaw. The two best selling small trucks outsell the two worst selling full size trucks. And the Fiat 500 outsells the Suzuki Kizashi. What does that prove? It's never a good business decision to put all your eggs in one basket. Ford has been burned in the past by neglecting and abandoning "shrinking" market segments in favor of cash cows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Misleading. Small truck sales crashed during the economic collapse of 2008. When gas prices went up people who still needed full sized trucks continued to buy them. People who used to buy Rangers as commuter vehicles (like me - I owned 2) switched to more fuel efficient cars, hybrids or crossovers. Small trucks are simply not going to be as fuel efficient as cars or hybrids. That's the difference today versus 10 years ago. The market has changed dramatically and small trucks are not used the way they used to be and therefore the market itself is much smaller and therefore not as important. Ford has to pick and choose where to spend money and right now a game changer fuel efficient full sized truck and hybrids are way more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It's never a good business decision to put all your eggs in one basket. Ford has been burned in the past by neglecting and abandoning "shrinking" market segments in favor of cash cows. No, Ford got in trouble by neglecting and abandoning large and/or growing market segments like midsized and small cars. Now they have competitive B cars, C cars, C/D cars, D cars, small and midsized 2 and 3 row crossovers, hybrids, electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids plus full sized trucks and small delivery vans. The new full sized vans are on the way. Get your head out of the sand and face up to the realities of a changing marketplace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) It's never a good business decision to put all your eggs in one basket. Ford has been burned in the past by neglecting and abandoning "shrinking" market segments in favor of cash cows. Eggs in one basket? Did Ford make an announcement I missed about cancelling every vehicle they build besides the F-series? Ford has its most rounded product portfolio in the history of the company. Just because that doesn't include a small pickup (hey look -- it doesn't include a minivan either! ) doesn't mean they are "putting all their eggs in one basket". It means they are only competing in segments where they see potential to compete for market share and profit. If in the future Ford feels their potential position in the small truck market has improved, then they will return to it. They obviously don't feel that time is now though. Edited June 12, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ford doesn't make what I want to buy therefore they are stupid and I will think up any number of excuses and cliches to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Sorry... didn't catch that. I was too busy filling the tank on my 2012 Ford Excursion with $0.88 gasoline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeehaw. The two best selling small trucks outsell the two worst selling full size trucks. And the Fiat 500 outsells the Suzuki Kizashi. What does that prove? That many passenger car and light duty pickup truck customers prefer a smaller vehicle? :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 That many passenger car and light duty pickup truck customers prefer a smaller vehicle? :shrug: Many != enough to justify Ford re-enter the market at this time. Many people buy minivans too. Many people buy motorcycles. Should Ford start selling those too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Many != enough to justify Ford re-enter the market at this time. Many people buy minivans too. Many people buy motorcycles. Should Ford start selling those too? Enough about minivans already. Explorer and Flex compete in the 7-seat "minivan" segment. If the rear doors slid, they would be minivans (FWD, unibody, 3-row, rear lift gate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Enough about minivans already. Explorer and Flex compete in the 7-seat "minivan" segment. If the rear doors slid, they would be minivans (FWD, unibody, 3-row, rear lift gate) If you think Explorer and Flex are close to being minivans then you don't understand minivans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Enough about minivans already. Explorer and Flex compete in the 7-seat "minivan" segment. If the rear doors slid, they would be minivans (FWD, unibody, 3-row, rear lift gate) The Explorer and Flex are as close to a minivan as an F-150 is to a Tacoma. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.