Ford delays new Mondeo

[silvrsvt]

From eprsonal Experience the assemgbly quality of a 1st gen European focus was far superior to that of 1st gen US focus..

 

The issue there is that the Focus was more or less dumped on the USA because there wasn't a practical small car replacement. There is alot more going on then it being a EU vs US problem. The management at Ford NA was screwing the pooch at the time the car came over because they where too concerned about other things.

[jpd80]

The issue there is that the Focus was more or less dumped on the USA because there wasn't a practical small car replacement. There is alot more going on then it being a EU vs US problem. The management at Ford NA was screwing the pooch at the time the car came over because they where too concerned about other things.

exactly, todays vehicles are a completley different arrangement, you see that with Mondeo being delayed six months to get it right,

had that been allowed with c170 Focus, a lot of the painful niggles would possibly never occurred..

[Biker16]

exactly, todays vehicles are a completley different arrangement, you see that with Mondeo being delayed six months to get it right,

had that been allowed with c170 Focus, a lot of the painful niggles would possibly never occurred..

 

as i remember i was the demands by FNA for many late design changes to the EU focus that created many of the recalls. IMO FNA panicked about the cost of the car and sent in a team less than 9 months before launch to reduce costs. there are two different things at work here. bad assembly and pad parts. The question is if the same issue happened in the US happened in the EU.

 

With the 2012 focus ford is sticking with the product as is and making changes to future products like the fusion and escape, to ensure they are not repeated, but they ARE NOT making changes to the car until the MCE or even until the next car bows in 4 years.

 

Perfect example of this is the center mounted central locking button. ford could have rushed and changed the product but they didn't, they changed it on the escape and fusion, but not the focus.

 

 

 

NHTSA Recall History

 

2000 w/speed control: Control-cable core wire could catch on sleeve at cable end during wide-open throttle acceleration, preventing throttle from returning to idle.

2000: Decklid wire harness on certain cars can fatigue and develop broken wires, resulting in loss of individual lamp functions or electrical short.

2000: Hub retaining nuts can loosen, allowing left rear wheel and brake-drum assembly to separate.

2000-01 wagon and hatchback: In certain vehicles with folding 60/40 second seat, when the 60-percent portion is folded down and load is applied to front edge of load floor, outboard-hinge pivot could disengage.

2000-01: A switch located in the plastic cover of the wiper-motor gear case could malfunction and overheat, potentially resulting in loss of wiper function or fire.

2000-01: Cars equipped with Zetec engines may have faulty battery cables, causing a short to occur, and possibly resulting in the illumination of the check-engine light and fire. Dealer will inspect and replace affected part.

2000-01: On certain cars, bolts in the steering knuckle may become loose, resulting in vibration and eventual decrease in steering control. Dealer will inspect and tighten all loose bolts.

2000-04 four-/five-door: Build-up of corrosion at pawl pivot area of rear door latch on certain cars sold or registered in specified states can cause binding; if not latched properly, the door may open while vehicle is moving.

2001: Contanimation of fuel-filter delivery module can block fuel flow to the engine, causing stalling.

2001: Seatback recliner handle spring on some vehicles could be damaged, causing seatback to be loose or to recline unexpectedly.

2002 SVT: Throttle may not return to the closed position when the accelerator is released. It may be necessary to depress the clutch and apply the brake to stop the vehicle.

[jpd80]

as i remember i was the demands by FNA for many late design changes to the EU focus that created many of the recalls. IMO FNA panicked about the cost of the car and sent in a team less than 9 months before launch to reduce costs. there are two different things at work here. bad assembly and pad parts. The question is if the same issue happened in the US happened in the EU.

 

With the 2012 focus ford is sticking with the product as is and making changes to future products like the fusion and escape, to ensure they are not repeated, but they ARE NOT making changes to the car until the MCE or even until the next car bows in 4 years.

 

Perfect example of this is the center mounted central locking button. ford could have rushed and changed the product but they didn't, they changed it on the escape and fusion, but not the focus.

This time around, all of Ford's stake holders were at the table at design stage

and as you say, things like location of some controls stay with EU design but

a lot of the dramas associated with C170 launch were avoided, teething problems

with dashes and powershift were unfortunate but important learning experiences..

[Biker16]

This time around, all of Ford's stake holders were at the table at design stage

and as you say, things like location of some controls stay with EU design but

a lot of the dramas associated with C170 launch were avoided, teething problems

with dashes and powershift were unfortunate but important learning experiences..

exactly.

[RichardJensen]

JDP measures in the US are not comparable to those in Europe

Ford's numbers in Europe have been well below their peers for quite some time now, independent of any comparison to the US market

[jpd80]

Ford's numbers in Europe have been well below their peers for quite some time now, independent of any comparison to the US market

Yet Fiesta, Focus and now Escape (Kuga) seem to be getting raves in the North America , maybe Americans are easier to please..

[RichardJensen]

Yet Fiesta, Focus and now Escape (Kuga) seem to be getting raves in the North America , maybe Americans are easier to please..

The Fiesta and Focus have not been stellar performers on the JDP survey.

[jpd80]

The Fiesta and Focus have not been stellar performers on the JDP survey.

While that might be so, is it because of the Ford Euro design or is it more to do with build quality / supplier issues?

[RichardJensen]

While that might be so, is it because of the Ford Euro design or is it more to do with build quality / supplier issues?

I wouldln't know. What I was speaking to was Biker's assertion that FoE employees know how to capably build their own product. JDP survey reports suggest that they're subpar in Europe at that task.

[jpd80]

I wouldln't know. What I was speaking to was Biker's assertion that FoE employees know how to capably build their own product. JDP survey reports suggest that they're subpar in Europe at that task.

Aww, Ive sampled a few Foe products over the years, gotta say quality was pretty ordinary,

For all the crap we gave '96 Taurus, they held up pretty good, similar quality to Falcon of that era..

Late series Mondeo is pretty good quality too, haven't heard anything too bad about them..

Edited July 21, 2012 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

DN101s have good coachwork. That is the voice of experience. Think our family has owned DN101s for a total of 25-30 years. They were very solidly built.

Edited July 22, 2012 by RichardJensen

[theoldwizard]

You guys have short memories !

 

Don't you recall the issue with Focus dashboard skins ? IIRC, the root cause was and FoE spec'd European machine that was not performing up to standards.

[jpd80]

You guys have short memories !

 

Don't you recall the issue with Focus dashboard skins ? IIRC, the root cause was and FoE spec'd European machine that was not performing up to standards.

As distinct from problems identified after sale...which are counted in the JPD scoring.

[RichardJensen]

I wonder if Ford will find global process to be more difficult to implement than global product.

[Biker16]

You guys have short memories !

 

Don't you recall the issue with Focus dashboard skins ? IIRC, the root cause was and FoE spec'd European machine that was not performing up to standards.

 

the issue was that the machine could not meet the production numbers it was designed for, It was not a quality issue that made into any Cars

 

the short temr fix was to import the IPs from europe, which ironically was made by the companty that bought saline, Faurucia,

 

the long term solution was to buy a second machine.

 

the insanity of this is believing that it was wrong to trust the judgemnt of the designer of the the platform when selecting all new suppliers. shuld ford Na not have trusted FoE, or should FoE not bought the load of shit the maker of the molding machine was selling Ford.

 

the new owner of The plant that the IP was produced Saline, was bought by faurucia a french component maker, and has since established a plant near LAP, to produce IPs for the escape and MKG. was the exculsive producer of IPs for the C1 focus in the EU as well as the Volvo S40/V50/S30, they did not buy new machines for the C2 program.

 

either way this has happend before and will happen in the future as long as ford designs new products.

 

can you name the last all new product launch before the Focus?

 

As distinct from problems identified after sale...which are counted in the JPD scoring.

 

the IP was never a Quality problem accorind to the people in the plant, the IP quality was 2nd to none they just conld not make enough to meet demand with the new machines they bought.

 

It seems to conveninet to blame FoE for every production isuue like they knew the IP suppier was full of shit when they were chosen. Or when FNA has the same issue with a north american product it not the same thing.

 

the 2 major issues with the focus and fiesta were powershift and My ford touch.

 

Powershift again was a getrag Ford JV. There were production quality issues which were the suppliers fualt and programing issue which were Ford fault.

 

SO who was responsible for programming the Powershift transmission to meet American needs? FoE or FNA? Who did not properly inform the pblic about it operation and benifits?

 

Who fault was my Ford Touch? MFT has done more to harm Ford's quality than any other ford feature in years.

 

I wonder if Ford will find global process to be more difficult to implement than global product.

 

there is no going back.

 

Intergrating PD s far simpler than manufacturing, espcially when they FoE and FNA have spent over 100 years growing apart.

 

You did not think this would be easy did you?

 

honestly what did you think was going to happen? what did they think was going to happen?

[jpd80]

the IP was never a Quality problem accorind to the people in the plant, the IP quality was 2nd to none they just conld not make enough to meet demand with the new machines they bought.

I never said it was as I responded to TOW's post in terms of linking it to RJ's discussion of JPD ratings here and in Europe,

IPs were a supply issue in the early months as distinct from any quality problem perceived by customers after sale - that's what I meant....

The ramp up of Focus was probably a litle slower than expected but allowed Ford to keep numbers tight and avoid incentives.

Edited July 23, 2012 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

honestly what did you think was going to happen? what did they think was going to happen?

Probably, that FoE would adopt FNA manufacturing processes without insisting that their clearly suboptimal processes were better.

[Biker16]

Probably, that FoE would adopt FNA manufacturing processes without insisting that their clearly suboptimal processes were better.

 

You seem to know exactly what was going on. "clearly Sub optimal Processes" why change what isn't broken. It take FoE 13 hours to build a Fiesta. Changing a manufacturing culture does not come easily or without something compelling the system to change. even when the change happens it takes a long time to complete, unlike PD.

 

FNA was brought to it's knees only then could change happen. FoE problems are in no way related to it quality, but to the market as a whole. and historically they have suffered the most for not being able to develop products that the market wants fast enough. so they heavily invested in PD and reducing time to market and in manufacturing flexibility.

 

FNA had the opposite situation they did not invest in PD but invested more in refining quality processes. Thus FNA has had only one clean sheet UB design in the last decade.

[RichardJensen]

FoE problems are in no way related to it quality

Then why is Ford consistently in the bottom tier on JDP's QUALITY surveys?

[Biker16]

Then why is Ford consistently in the bottom tier on JDP's QUALITY surveys?

 

you are inferring that quality is what is hurting FoE sales in the EU which is not true. you are assumeing that FoE's quality is responsible for it's market share decline over the last 2 decades, again not true.

 

you are also inferring that FNA sales increase is directly due to improving quality, which sounds great, but is not true.

 

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/press-release/ZHmJ5ki/2012-germany-vehicle-ownership-satisfaction-study.htm

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2012 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

I am inferring nothing.

 

 

You said, some time ago, that Ford's European operations have no difficulty assembling the vehicles they have designed.

 

This is, per the JDP surveys, not a defensible statement.

 

You made a statement, I countered with evidence that contradicts that statement, and we're done here.

[timmm55]

What do they measure? And why are the results all over the place? How the hell does Mitsubishi do so well in Germany (VOSS) yet poorly in the UK VOSS and US IQS?

VW does well in Germany, a little worse in the UK and much worse here.

[RichardJensen]

How the hell does Mitsubishi do so well in Germany (VOSS) yet poorly in the UK VOSS and US IQS?

sample size is my guess

[Biker16]

I am inferring nothing.

 

 

You said, some time ago, that Ford's European operations have no difficulty assembling the vehicles they have designed.

 

This is, per the JDP surveys, not a defensible statement.

 

You made a statement, I countered with evidence that contradicts that statement, and we're done here.

 

You stated "Ford's numbers in Europe have been well below their peers for quite some time now,"

 

Even though from the charts I posted FoE doesn't seem to fare ant worse than FNA and in some cases FOE seems to fare better than FNA.

 

so by the JD powers result Ford NA can neither assemble FoE or their own products very well? Right?

 

Probably, that FoE would adopt FNA manufacturing processes without insisting that their clearly suboptimal processes were better.

 

Can you explain what these processes are and you source that supports your assertion?

 

Can you explain what FoE specifically is doing wrong?

If Volkswagen, and other European makes use the same process with good results who is to judge their processes are better or worse than any other process?

 

How does your assertion jibe with the spate of rough launches, Focus, Escape, Explorer.

 

Can you step down from your high horse and admit that the launches were the responsibility of Ford North America and that the Focus launch in the EU was flawless, as was the launch of the C-max, and the B-max launch looks to be going very well too. even with the 1999 focus the launch in the EU went very smoothly specialty compared with the North American Focus launch.

 

Maybe you should spend less time with your nose in the Air, and take the time to understand cultural differences and major differences in markets determine the priorities of the business not some idealized concept of right and wrong.