RichardJensen Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 And to think, back in 98 and again in 2000 when they gained the title of "highest" selling luxury carmaker, they did it with just 3 vehicles Four, and a *ton* of fleet sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Four, and a *ton* of fleet sales. Correct 1998 - TC, Navi, Mark VIII, Conti 2000 - TC, Navi, LS, Conti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Four, and a *ton* of fleet sales. 10-4 that. Here's a shot of the Limo holding area at Pearson International, Toronto. All the black sleds? 98% TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Agreed. I get that a risky design can turn out ugly. However, failing to address any of the issues with the 2013 MCE is inexcusable. They didn't need to wait for Wolff to tell them it was ugly. We've been doing it since 2009. Interior = good, profile = passable, front and rear clips = bad. New headlights, grille, taillight assembly, and perhaps sacrifice panel would have gone a long, long way. what's a "sacrifice panel"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 what's a "sacrifice panel"? The sheetmetal piece which covers the tailgate structure. Named as such because it will take a direct hit in a rear-end collision due to the relative lack of a traditional rear bumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exploder48 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 "Most conspicuous of those is a retractable panoramic sun roof, which Lincoln says is the world's largest. It will be offered as a $2,995 option on all models. Also optional will be a second smaller sun roof. ' Read more: http://www.autonews....4#ixzz24D0DjOEO Not true on either accounts. You can't get it on the base (Premiere) model. Also the second one isn't a sunroof at all, or smaller, but a fixed glass roof like the Mustang. Not sure where you get your info-if you check the order guide for the 2013 MKZ there are two moonroofs, BOTH are retractable- the single panel as well as the panoramic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Not sure where you get your info-if you check the order guide for the 2013 MKZ there are two moonroofs, BOTH are retractable- the single panel as well as the panoramic. I haven't seen the official Order Guide. I looked for it. Borg has seen the Fusion Order Guide, posted it but took it down. Nowhere does it say "power" moonroof in the single panel application. Or retractable. Nor have I seen a photo of one as a conventional moonroof (Fusion). This would be unique to Lincoln, neither found on Fusion. I could be wrong! But "Single Panel" sounds like a one piece section. That's not the same description for the conventional Fusion moonroof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That's a retractable moonroof. That's what 'moonroof' means under the Ford naming system (shoot, I think Ford coined the term): Today, most factory sliding sunroof options feature a glass panel and are sometimes marketed as moonroofs, a term introduced in 1973 by John Atkinson, a marketing manager at Ford for the Lincoln Continental Mark IV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunroof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If it wasn't operable it would be called a glass roof like the mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If it wasn't operable it would be called a glass roof like the mustang. Yes, same for 56 Crown Vicky Glass Roof. And I agree with Richard about Ford inventing the term "moonroof" on the Mark IV. That's why I say I could be wrong. BUT.......again not mentioned as being power operated. "Single Panel"?......is there any other kind? There isn't a DETAILS link to it, like the Fusion Build Your Own.....that sure would have clarified things. To complicate things Lincoln also called their fixed glass roof on the 77-79 Lincolns a "Moonroof" also. http://automotivemileposts.com/lincoln/lincoln1977fixedmoonroof.html So there IS a precedent for that also. With the new retractable roof, Lincoln may be fiddling with the naming structure for roof options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yes, same for 56 Crown Vicky Glass Roof. And I agree with Richard about Ford inventing the term "moonroof" on the Mark IV. That's why I say I could be wrong. BUT.......again not mentioned as being power operated. "Single Panel"?......is there any other kind? There isn't a DETAILS link to it, like the Fusion Build Your Own.....that sure would have clarified things. To complicate things Lincoln also called their fixed glass roof on the 77-79 Lincolns a "Moonroof" also. http://automotivemil...edmoonroof.html So there IS a precedent for that also. With the new retractable roof, Lincoln may be fiddling with the naming structure for roof options. I think that's just the wording they chose to distinguish it from the retractable roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some more info: http://ask.yahoo.com/20030617.html The answer? "Sunroof" is the generic term used to describe an operable panel in a vehicle roof which can let in light and/or air. "Moonroof" is a term created by Ford in the 70s, yet is now used generically to describe glass panel inbuilt electric sunroofs. Hmmm, so all moonroofs are sunroofs, yet not all sunroofs are moonroofs? We found further clarification -- "sunroof" is the term originally used to describe a metal panel that would only allow light or air in when opened. A "moonroof," on the other hand, is a glass panel that can allow light in even when it is closed (provided, of course, you slide back that nifty fabric-covered panel to expose the glass). True sunroofs, those made just of metal, appear to have gone the way of 8-tracks in automobiles, and these days, most "sunroofs" are really "moonroofs" -- panels of tempered glass, usually tinted, that tilt up to allow a flow of air, or slide back into the roof entirely, giving the car occupants a brief but tantalizing glimpse of life in a convertible. Seems like our friendly salesperson wasn't telling us quite the whole story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think that's just the wording they chose to distinguish it from the retractable roof. LOL I thought, gee they have this plexiglass roof already made. let's make two versions of it. Easy enough to do. Which would also explain why we haven't seen a pic of the Single Panel "Moonroof"........it looks just like the retractable. We'll know soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 "Single Panel"?......is there any other kind? Vista Roof... technically its two peices of glass http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/15/ford-finds-over-half-of-buyers-want-vista-roof/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 ^ agree<p> think they just want to differentiate it from the MKS's "dual-panel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Some more info: http://ask.yahoo.com/20030617.html I'm familiar with the differences. I had a 71 Pinto and and a 74 Mustang II Ghia..........both had the mechanical crank sunroofs (in metal). Later Mustang IIs had glass moonroofs. I've had power sun/moonroofs from ASC installed in two Tauruses (86 MT-5. 95 SHO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Vista Roof... technically its two peices of glass http://www.autoblog....ant-vista-roof/ I was going to mention that too. It's about the same price as the fixed Mustang glass top (too $$$ IMHO).....$2000. Seems like a missed opportunity to do a fixed glass moonroof also, if they aren't doing so. Some people won't want the added complexity, no matter how cool it is. I think $3000 for the retractable roof is a great deal BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 It's not a fixed panel. Why on earth would it be? The Mustang's glass roof is a fixed panel because the roof is too small to store a decent sized sun roof when fully retracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) There are two roof options, "Single Panel" for $1,200 and "Retractable Panoramic Roof" for $2,995. There is no fixed panel version. MKZ does not call it the "Panoramic Vista Roof" like the MKX & MKT. The MKT does have two version of the Panoramic Vista Roof, one fixed (standard) and one that opens ($1,000 option). The variety of roof glass options at Ford is complex. Some have oversized openings over the front passengers like Edge, MKX, and MKT, while others put it behind the b-pillar such as the Explorer and MKS. And then there is the Flex which has 4 individual windows through the headliner. The MKZ is the first full-size roof panel to completely retract as opposed to being divided up in various ways. The problem with the MKZ is that the roof force closes to a smaller opening at higher speeds (above 45 I think). This fact alone makes me less likely to pick the MKZ over the MKX since the roof an important factor in the reason I came back to buy TWO of these vehicles after my 2007 MKX. Edited August 23, 2012 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's not a fixed panel. Why on earth would it be? The Mustang's glass roof is a fixed panel because the roof is too small to store a decent sized sun roof when fully retracted. As Borg mentioned, the MKT has a standard fixed glass roof. Do you have a problem with that too? ASC made a prototype Mustang glass top that retracted. Borg, do you have any other information on the MKZ roof options? There is little info on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 As Borg mentioned, the MKT has a standard fixed glass roof. Yes. Not an OPTIONAL fixed glass roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Yes. Not an OPTIONAL fixed glass roof. .....and the Mustang's glass roof is OPTIONAL. I'm not getting your objection, Edited August 24, 2012 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 .....and the Mustang's glass roof is OPTIONAL. I'm not getting your objection. Simple: You assert that the MKZ moonroof is fixed, because it is not explicitly said to open. Others point out that this is a relatively odd notion. You point out that the Mustang has an optional fixed glass roof. I point out that the Mustang has a fixed roof option because its roof is too small to store the glass from a respectably sized sunroof (aftermarket kits slide the glass over the roof, which Ford probably avoids for NVH reasons). You counter by pointing out that the MKT has a standard fixed glass roof. The problem is that neither counter example is a four-square match with what I said: Ford doesn't offer an optional fixed glass sun roof on a vehicle that can accommodate an operable sunroof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hence, why I made the turbo designation. It makes 300hp, but "only" 275lb-ft of torque at 4000rpms. I want that same torque output, but want it to arrive <2000rpms. Torqy turbo engines provide a more luxurious feel than N/A engines; they just "feel" more powerful in my experience and the industry seems to agree. Eh, the 3.7 has plenty of grunt even in my heavier Edge. I'm betting it propels the MKZ quite nicely as it is. If they're going to offer something else, go way higher with the 3.5 EB :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Simple: You assert that the MKZ moonroof is fixed, because it is not explicitly said to open. Nothing of the kind. That's the way I read it initially. And I said I could be wrong. I am not asserting that is what it says. What it says is vague as there are no "details" listed. That's why I asked Borg if he's seen the Order Guide. I am asserting that another roof option (conventional "moonroof", retractable, and a fixed "moonroof") would be good. For a fixed Vista roof the hardware is all there, it would be relatively inexpensive to produce, and some people don't like the added complexity of a power roof of any kind. Edited August 24, 2012 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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