CR Still Hates MyFord/MyLincoln Touch: "Fundamentally Flawed"

[akirby]

Tranny issues still exist. Co-worker of mine recently purchased a 2012 Focus 2-weeks ago, and he's coming from the prior gen Focus. So with all that people have stated here, I had to take a ride in it. Tranny lunges/lurches and hunts for the correct gear too often. He also has MFT, and still appears to be buggy, even restarted/rebooted while in the car and I've only rode in it twice. You'd think a brand new vehicle sitting on the lot would have the latest updates of everything.

 

Overall the car is nice, but the MFT and tranny is making him 2nd guess his purchase. Poor guy too, cause he paid for the car in full.

 

That's the first complaint I've heard since the new software went out. I certainly don't experience any of that in my daughter's vehicle. I wonder if it has the latest software? All of the comments from owners who had the new software seemed to indicate those issues had been fixed.

 

And that's Ford's fault for making a vehicle so dependent upon an infotainment system. I'm sorry, but no vehicle should be so dependent upon such a feature. Just my opinion though, you are totally fine to disagree. To each their own.

 

Dude - this is why we get into arguments. Where did I say that it wasn't Ford's fault? Where did I even imply that this wasn't Ford's responsibility?

 

The only thing I said was that BeSquare wrote horrendously buggy code which caused the fiasco which should be obvious by now.

 

Ford knew it was buggy. They worked hard trying to fix all the bugs. They brought in Microsoft to help.

They made a calculated business decision that the problems could be fixed quickly so they released it on the 2011 Edge. The alternatives were to delay the 2011 Edge altogether (not easy to do when plants and suppliers are all geared up for the new model) or go out the door with just the base radio without MFT (not really an option in today's market) or retrofit the 2010 navigation system to the 2011 model (almost certainly not possible in such a short timeframe).

 

Given all that they had to make a decision. None of the choices were good - only degrees of bad.

 

If you want to affix blame, it goes like this:

 

BeSquare is responsible for writing crappy code that could not be fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

Ford is responsible for choosing the wrong vendor (in hindsight) and for not managing the vendor adequately during the development process.

Ford is responsible for not having an adequate backup plan.

 

Not having a backup plan is ultimately what caused the release of the buggy software in the first place.

 

The reason it's important to understand the role that BeSquare played is that Ford can fix that problem by getting a different vendor as opposed to it being an internal problem that might be harder to fix. It's like the fuel line problem - it's a vendor issue and while it's ultimately Ford's responsibility you have to rely on your vendors to honor their contract and deliver working products.

 

So I ask again - where did I say that none of this was Ford's fault or responsibility?

[V8-X]

Dependent means it won't work without it. You could put a big piece of plastic in there and the vehicle would still operate fine, it would just look like crap. No, it wasn't dependent on MFT...

So it was dependent, otherwise it'd look like crap. Got ya! Could say the same thing with the grille. Without the grille, which it is dependent upon, it'd look like crap.

 

That's the first complaint I've heard since the new software went out. I certainly don't experience any of that in my daughter's vehicle. I wonder if it has the latest software? All of the comments from owners who had the new software seemed to indicate those issues had been fixed.

I'm unsure of the version update he has installed. Figured it's be the latest/greatest since he just purchased it. I have recommended he go back to his dealer to ensure it has the latest flash on the tranny & MFT. All I know was neither of those items appeared to work correctly.

 

Dude - this is why we get into arguments. Where did I say that it wasn't Ford's fault? Where did I even imply that this wasn't Ford's responsibility?

And where did I say that you said this? All I stated was this is Ford's fault, end of story, never stated you said it wasn't. Take things out of context much just cause I quoted your post?

 

If you want to affix blame, it goes like this:

 

BeSquare is responsible for writing crappy code that could not be fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

Ford is responsible for choosing the wrong vendor (in hindsight) and for not managing the vendor adequately during the development process.

Ford is responsible for not having an adequate backup plan.

 

Not having a backup plan is ultimately what caused the release of the buggy software in the first place.

Totally agree.

 

The reason it's important to understand the role that BeSquare played is that Ford can fix that problem by getting a different vendor as opposed to it being an internal problem that might be harder to fix. It's like the fuel line problem - it's a vendor issue and while it's ultimately Ford's responsibility you have to rely on your vendors to honor their contract and deliver working products.

Sorry. So was everyone blaming Texas Instruments for the faulty CC switch that caused the many fires on Fords? Sure it was their design, but ultimately it's Ford's fault. Same here. BeSquare design, but Ford's fault. Just like Toyota and the pedal fiasco. Sure another company designed, but was Toyota's fault. End of story.

Edited August 24, 2012 by V8-X

[akirby]

So we both agree there has been issues for the past 3 years since they came out with this system. And I did own this system before and after the update--before on my 2012 Focus (which I refused to load the "performance upgrade") and after on my current 2013 Escape. I was actually one that had less issues with the old version, and prefered the old design with greater capability, better graphics design, and temperature readout.

 

The version you had in the Focus was at least 6 releases later than the one that debuted in the 2011 Edge in October 2010. That version was worlds better than the first one, even though it was still severely flawed. Even so, before the update I had to pull the fuse in my daughter's Focus twice and it locked up temporarily a few more times. After the update - no more fuse pulls and no more freezes. And that's what MOST owners are reporting. Not all, but most. I don't know why you keep trying to dispute that.

 

1.) Once again, please state your citation. that's righ you don't have any internal documents to back up your claims.

 

I don't need internal documents. Anybody who does software development (and I've been doing it for 25 years at a fortune 100 company) understands exactly what happened and why.

When something isnt working or you don't have time to test it you take it out and put it back in a later release. And you don't change something like that willy nilly at the last minute based on some customer complaints. The new release was likely already in testing before the previous release hit the streets.

 

2.) Everyone that owns a vehicle with MFT has bugs, issues, etc. That's a fact. The software has been written with bugs and improper testing, and Ford knows it.

 

MFT has bugs, but that doesn't mean that all MFT owners are experiencing those bugs. This is the part you can't seem to understand. Even with the very first release of the software in October 2010 there were some Edge owners that were not having any problems.

 

It doesn't mean the bugs aren't there. I'm sure you use a PC every day and may only rarely have a problem, yet if you look at the windows known bugs list there are hundreds if not thousands of bugs out there.

[fordmantpw]

So it was dependent, otherwise it'd look like crap. Got ya! Could say the same thing with the grille. Without the grille, which it is dependent upon, it'd look like crap.

 

Very true! The grille isn't so much required (other than to keep large debris from the radiator), but the vehicle would look horrible without one. Comparing MFT to a grille is a bit of a stretch, though, don't ya think?

 

I would say the roll-out of the vehicle was dependent on MFT being there, but actually driving the vehicle is NOT dependent on MFT working properly.

[BORG]

My Aunt and Uncle bought a 2012 Lincoln MKX. They are NOT tech savy, and I warned them about MFT. But they said to me "I don't care, it looks so nice!". That sums up why people will always be drawn to these features, it's undeniably attractive. As for how it functions, I think it works pretty good. Maybe it's not an improvement over buttons and switches, but it improves the physical and visual experience (especially Lincoln's implementation with the sliders). Some of that is harmed by the mix of terrible resistive tech vs the capactive tech on the same console, an unsuitable compromise from shared components.

Edited August 24, 2012 by BORG

[svtenthusiast]

Well, this answers alot of questions why the software is still so fundamentally flawed and buggy. Bsquare is still behind the curtain, abit in a smaller capacity. Ugh...........

 

From Bsquare's 2nd quarter SEC filings:

 

"Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") became our largest engineering services customer during the first quarter of this year, replacing Ford Motor Company ("Ford"), as Microsoft replaced Ford as the invoiced customer on the MyFord Touch program. We continue to work on the MyFord Touch, a project we began with Ford during the second quarter of 2008, however we now conduct these services through an agreement with Microsoft. During the initial project with Ford, we provided hardware design and implementation, platform level software development, application level software development, quality assurance services and systems integration services. The project has transitioned since the initial project such that we are now primarily focused on developing and integrating new user applications for the MyFord Touch, enhancing existing applications and customizing the MyFord Touch platform for additional vehicle models. Service revenue from the MyFord Touch program declined $690,000 to $1.7 million, or 26% of total service revenue, for the three months ended June 30, 2012, compared to $2.4 million, or 38% of total service revenue, in the year-ago period. Service revenue from the MyFord Touch program declined $1.2 million to $3.5 million, or 25% of total service revenue, for the six months ended June 30, 2012, compared to $4.7 million, or 35% of total service revenue, in the year-ago period. The number of engineers working on the MyFord Touch project has declined in the current year under the new agreement with Microsoft."

[fordmantpw]

Well, this answers alot of questions why the software is still so fundamentally flawed and buggy. Bsquare is still behind the curtain, abit in a smaller capacity. Ugh...........

 

In other words, Ford had a contract to fulfill with B², and chose the best way to go about it without losing their a$$ in the process, while still improving things and working to put out a solid product.

 

This is the key:

we are now primarily focused on developing and integrating new user applications for the MyFord Touch, enhancing existing applications and customizing the MyFord Touch platform for additional vehicle models

 

It's a lot harder to screw up those pieces and make it a really $hitty product than it is with the lower-level stuff. Basically, MS does the important stuff and B² gets what's left.

[RichardJensen]

Yep. Thanks for digging that up, SVT.

 

This is somewhat reminiscent of the way Ford botched precious metals purchasing about ten years ago. They didn't know what they were doing, screwed up big time, and lost a fortune, with the additional sting in this case that Ford's rep has been negatively impacted as well.

[V8-X]

Very true! The grille isn't so much required (other than to keep large debris from the radiator), but the vehicle would look horrible without one. Comparing MFT to a grille is a bit of a stretch, though, don't ya think?

 

I would say the roll-out of the vehicle was dependent on MFT being there, but actually driving the vehicle is NOT dependent on MFT working properly.

It is a stretch, but along the same lines IMO. Ford would never have released the Explorer had there been significant issues with the design and function of the grille, right? Or would they have knowing that grille would crack or fall off or braces would bust off, creating a quality nightmare?

 

True the Explorer is not dependent on MFT to function. But to move units, it was because they had no alternative to install in that space. So what did Ford do, released a flawed unit, just to garner the sales, but to suffer the backlash and repeated issues. And you wonder why quality rating with customers are slipping when they send things out the door knowing they aren't right.

[fordmantpw]

True the Explorer is not dependent on MFT to function. But to move units, it was because they had no alternative to install in that space. So what did Ford do, released a flawed unit, just to garner the sales, but to suffer the backlash and repeated issues. And you wonder why quality rating with customers are slipping when they send things out the door knowing they aren't right.

 

I can't say I disagree. Ford had issues, and they knew it. Sometimes it happens, and you have to make the tough choice. I argue that it WAS better to release it and deal with the backlash than to miss the sales.

 

And, we don't wander why quality slipped. We know that MFT played an extremely important part in that, and hopefully Ford will recover from it, and learn from it.

 

 

You also have to remember that releasing software updates is MUCH cheaper that replacing hard components. It's not free, but the cost is minimal compared to replacing hardware.

[akirby]

It is a stretch, but along the same lines IMO. Ford would never have released the Explorer had there been significant issues with the design and function of the grille, right? Or would they have knowing that grille would crack or fall off or braces would bust off, creating a quality nightmare?

 

It's never as simple as you are making it out to be. Let's say Ford knew the grille was going to fail after 3 months BUT they had already cancelled supplies of the old grille and they did not have time to create new ones. So the only choice they had was to sell them with the bad grille and fix them later OR stop selling the vehicle altogether for 3-4 months. In that case which would you choose?

 

The 2011 Edge had terrible MFT problems. Where is it now sales-wise? The average buyer doesn't even know about stuff like this and some who do know don't care. It's never a good thing but it rarely hurts overall sales. In fact I'd be willing to bet that Ford gained more buyers just due to MFT than they lost due to quality problems.

[jpd80]

The 2011 Edge had terrible MFT problems. Where is it now sales-wise? The average buyer doesn't even know about stuff like this and some who do know don't care. It's never a good thing but it rarely hurts overall sales. In fact I'd be willing to bet that Ford gained more buyers just due to MFT than they lost due to quality problems.

Yeah glitches and bugs are unavoidable when you're releasing new product, it's more about how Ford handles the problem

and if the evidence on successive patches is correct, the problems are becoming less obvious to people using the basics.

I'd place it in the Focus Powershift column, a couple of software upgrades, most previous problems seem to be cured

or at least, less obvious/irritating......

Edited August 25, 2012 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

So we both agree there has been issues for the past 3 years since they came out with this system. And I did own this system before and after the update--before on my 2012 Focus (which I refused to load the "performance upgrade") and after on my current 2013 Escape. I was actually one that had less issues with the old version, and prefered the old design with greater capability, better graphics design, and temperature readout.

 

Now you're getting it! None of us have said it was perfect.

 

You must be one of the very few who had fewer issues with the old version. The new one is still a vast improvement over the original, regardless of the fact that it does still contain a few bugs. But, show me a piece of software that doesn't.

 

And personally, I find the graphics of the redesign to be far more pleasant to look at. And I was one who bitched about the temperature readout being gone, but alas, I've gotten used to looking at the instrument panel for it instead. Can't say I miss it a whole lot on the center stack anymore. That said, I wouldn't mind if they added it back either.

[FordBuyer]

It's never as simple as you are making it out to be. Let's say Ford knew the grille was going to fail after 3 months BUT they had already cancelled supplies of the old grille and they did not have time to create new ones. So the only choice they had was to sell them with the bad grille and fix them later OR stop selling the vehicle altogether for 3-4 months. In that case which would you choose?

 

The 2011 Edge had terrible MFT problems. Where is it now sales-wise? The average buyer doesn't even know about stuff like this and some who do know don't care. It's never a good thing but it rarely hurts overall sales. In fact I'd be willing to bet that Ford gained more buyers just due to MFT than they lost due to quality problems.

 

I don't know the figures, but I would say Ford sells lots of Edge SE's without MFT on it. Do you have to have an Edge SEL with MFT or can you opt out?

[akirby]

I don't know the figures, but I would say Ford sells lots of Edge SE's without MFT on it. Do you have to have an Edge SEL with MFT or can you opt out?

 

It's optional but I don't understand the point.