1.6L EB recall

[SK360]

 

Make the decision to purchase a 2.0L or a Titanium. The mpg's aren't all that different and you have the peace of mind of what seems to be a more refined and reliable engine.

 

If only I could go back a few months. I opted for the 1.6 since it was her mainly driving it and picked it for the extra couple MPG. Maybe they won't find a suitable fix and can offer us a 2.0 in its place.

[97svtgoin05gt]

I have to say Ford, I root for you every single day. I talk you up in automotive related conversations, I recommend your products AND drive them, I even root for your teams in motorsports. This is highly highly disappointing to me. I really kind of feel that if this is a process related issue (as opposed to a bad part design) someones nuts need to be on the line. Some folks should be fired. I don't say that lightly, I don't like to see people fired. But reputation takes soooo much to gain, and so little to lose. Stuff like this is perfect for the nasayers such as consumer reports etc. It is a huge blow to two of the sweet spot, primary products. Someone needs to be strung up over this.

[akirby]

Even if it's a bad part, it was a faulty process that allowed the bad part to be used or the wrong supplier to be chosen. It always comes down to a process improvement somewhere and I have no doubt that heads and other body parts will roll if necessary to correct it.

[2005Explorer]

None of these problems are indicative of long term reliability issues.

 

Maybe... maybe not... but it sure doesn't give you a warm fuzzy that this is one of the best engineered engines on the market today. I'd say for the little cost difference and the little mileage difference a person is much better off with the 2.0 EB in these vehicles. Maybe long term it won't matter, but for right now you can't even drive a vehicle with the 1.6 and they don't even know what is causing it to overheat. Yep... personally I'd stick with the 2.0 and enjoy the much stronger performance as well.

 

9:46PM EST December 3. 2012 - As embarrassments go, Ford Motor couldn't face a worse recall than one that wraps together two critical 2013 vehicles and a technology that it has spent the most time and money trying to burnish: Fusion sedan, Escape crossover and the EcoBoost turbocharged engine.

So far, 12 fires were reported in the Escapes and one in the Fusion, which just went on sale, says Ford spokesman Said Deep. No injuries were reported.

 

One buyer complained to NHTSA that he had already gone through three recall repairs on his 2013 Escape and was driving on the freeway near Charlottesville, Va., when a pop came from the engine. The engine temperature light came on, steam, then oily smoke poured from the engine and it burst into flames.

 

Another owner, Andrew Portare, says his engine hasn't overheated but his Escape has already been back to the dealer for several other problems. Now the Chantilly, Va., executive is miffed that Ford is telling him to park his Escape and use a free rental car.

"I just paid $26,000 for this car. Now they tell me to park it," he says.

Portare says he's fed up. "I feel like I should be able to get a refund," he says.

 

 

Yep I'd avoid that 1.6

 

Story is at the link.

 

http://www.usatoday....-fires/1743203/

Edited December 4, 2012 by 2005Explorer

[akirby]

If you understand failure and root cause analysis you'd understand the difference between a problem that shows up immediately and ones that don't show up for a long time. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other.

[2005Explorer]

If you understand failure and root cause analysis you'd understand the difference between a problem that shows up immediately and ones that don't show up for a long time. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other.

 

I look at something like this and say... What else is wrong with it? Sorry but no matter how much you try and sugarcoat it the 1.6 has had a very troubled short life with multiple recalls and forcing people to stop driving it. If I was an owner I'd ask myself... What next? Now I'm sure the issue will be resolved, but what comes next would be my concern. Besides who is really going to buy a 1.6 right now? They couldn't even drive it off the dealer lot. I guess if you want to buy something you can't leave the dealership with then go ahead, but I'd prefer to leave with my new vehicle.

 

Remember the 6.0 and 6.4 Navistar Diesels? Some of those were fixed right away and others kept having problems over the long term.

 

All I am saying is why not chose the engine with a much better track record. The more I look at these two engines it appears they are very different and it just seems like the 2.0 is a more premium engine. It is doing duty is much larger and demanding applications and doing it without any issues. Sure it costs a little more and might take a couple more MPGs, but I'd say the power makes up the little additional cost.

 

I don't think I would blame someone who decided on a 2.0 because of it's better track record. Now I would chose it because I find the 1.6 with AWD in the Escape to be underpowered, but I can see people choosing it because the 1.6 is starting to get a nasty little reputation.

Edited December 4, 2012 by 2005Explorer

[akirby]

I look at something like this and say... What else is wrong with it? Sorry but no matter how much you try and sugarcoat it the 1.6 has had a very troubled short life with multiple recalls and forcing people to stop driving it. If I was an owner I'd ask myself... What next? Now I'm sure the issue will be resolved, but what comes next would be my concern. Besides who is really going to buy a 1.6 right now? They couldn't even drive it off the dealer lot. I guess if you want to buy something you can't leave the dealership with then go ahead, but I'd prefer to leave with my new vehicle.

 

Remember the 6.0 and 6.4 Navistar Diesels? Some of those were fixed right away and others kept having problems over the long term.

 

All I am saying is why not chose the engine with a much better track record. The more I look at these two engines it appears they are very different and it just seems like the 2.0 is a more premium engine. It is doing duty is much larger and demanding applications and doing it without any issues. Sure it costs a little more and might take a couple more MPGs, but I'd say the power makes up the little additional cost.

 

I don't think I would blame someone who decided on a 2.0 because of it's better track record. Now I would chose it because I find the 1.6 with AWD in the Escape to be underpowered, but I can see people choosing it because the 1.6 is starting to get a nasty little reputation.

 

In other words, you think the 2.0 is a better choice so you're using any bit of bad news on the 1.6 to reinforce that opinion. Got it.

 

I never said anything about the 2.0 or which one was better. I was only commenting on the supposition that these early problems on the 1.6L were indicative of other longer term problems.

[jpd80]

Couldn't care less. $40 million? $100? Eleventy billion? That's Mulally's problem.

I was thinking reputation and quality - the two things Ford has been working hard on over the past six years.

When a chief comes on a conference call and says words to the effect of, " We still don't know what's causing the overheating..."

You can tell there's going to be a huge back story on all of this....

Edited December 4, 2012 by jpd80

[BrewfanGRB]

I was thinking reputation and quality - the two things Ford has been working hard on over the past six years.

 

 

Ah, gotcha. Definitely a cost you can't always buy yourself out of--but only earn back. Thing that sucks the most is Ford worked really hard to be able to reach quality on par with Toyota and Honda. And now, even though I know it's one engine on one vehicle, it's the type of black mark the reinforces the stereotypes and buyer's preconceived assumptions. Even for me, this is maddening and it's harder and harder to convince myself the quality is still there. (For the record, issues with MFT are not quality issues, IMO. But 2 fire-related recalls since the vehicle's release is unacceptable).

[jpd80]

Ah, gotcha. Definitely a cost you can't always buy yourself out of--but only earn back. Thing that sucks the most is Ford worked really hard to be able to reach quality on par with Toyota and Honda. And now, even though I know it's one engine on one vehicle, it's the type of black mark the reinforces the stereotypes and buyer's preconceived assumptions. Even for me, this is maddening and it's harder and harder to convince myself the quality is still there. (For the record, issues with MFT are not quality issues, IMO. But 2 fire-related recalls since the vehicle's release is unacceptable).

I can attest that the 1.6 EB is a solid performer, having sampled it in Europe in Focus.

This gut wrenching time will pass and Ford NA will get on top of this and 1.6 EB will become

the success it was meant to be.- Ford will not be denied because of this aberration....

[Biker16]

Because you don't read, which is why you're not worth rational opposition.

 

you are not rational.

[Biker16]

Another factor in re: suppliers, in the same way that Ford has engineering units in Europe and NA, most major suppliers have scattered engineering and mfg. centers as well.

 

Ford needs to get ROW on the NA quality bandwagon ASAP, and that includes suppliers. If you can't build what NA consumers expect, then you can't sell to Ford, period.

 

Again who is responsible for the basic failure of fit and finish quality control on the US Focus, Explorer, Taurus, Escape and Fusion?

 

It has been slipping for sometime.

 

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2012/01/2012-ford-explorer-a-question-of-tolerance.html

 

 

the Duratec V6 was from FOE and replace the FNA Pushrod Vulcan V6, Or the Cologne V6 used in the mustang and Explorer made in Germany, was much better than the Old trouble prone 3.8 V6, made in North America.

 

Richard nothing change, the course Ford is one will not change, there is no going back. so get over it.

[RichardJensen]

Get back to me when you can explain why the same workers can't assemble C2 vehicles as well as they could assemble the prior models built at those plants.

[valkraider]

Wow, Ford recalled 90,000 vehicles. That's a lot.

 

Sure, it's not as many as 7.43 million Toyotas, but hey who is counting, right?

 

I think 90,000 is still smaller than another 2.44 million Toyotas - which is around 9.5 million Toyota's recalled in the past three months!.

 

Could 90,000 be lower than 1.7 million? But Honda wouldn't make poor quality cars, right?

 

Should we forget the 12 to 14 million recalled Toyotas during the various 2009-2011 unintended acceleration recalls (which actually killed over 80 people?).

 

Maybe we should mention Chrysler's recent 900,000 cars recalled.

 

How about Toyota recalling 150,000 trucks this year? Is that on the radar?

 

Lets see, there are a whole host of recalls for other vehicles too. VW just recalled a bunch of 2012/2013 New Beetles. Jaguar and Mercedes both just made recalls.

 

Here is a whole host of GM recalls: including 3500 Verano, Cruze, and Sonic models; 4000 Chevy Malibu models, another 4700 Sonic models and just before that a whole 44,000 sonic models, 500,000 Cruzes in June and 14,000 Cadillac XTSs.

 

But yeah, everyone just focus on Ford.

 

Man, I am not even a real Ford guy. This will be my first Ford in over 20 years. But please, can we be realistic here?

 

Cars have hundreds of thousands of parts made by thousands of suppliers and companies build tens of thousands of vehicles PER DAY. A recall is a GOOD THING because they have identified a problem and are fixing it.

 

I find it funny that people will expect auto manufacturers to have zero issues when they produce complex machines thousands of times every day - yet the same people probably make mistakes and have problems at their own jobs. Look I work hard, but some times I have to correct mistakes and sometimes I don't do as good a job as I had hoped or would like. I can only image the same holds true for the million people in the world building cars.

 

As long as they handle them well, as long as they fix the problems and treat customers well - I have no problem with a few recalls here and there.

[2005Explorer]

Wow, Ford recalled 90,000 vehicles. That's a lot.

 

Sure, it's not as many as 7.43 million Toyotas, but hey who is counting, right?

 

I think 90,000 is still smaller than another 2.44 million Toyotas - which is around 9.5 million Toyota's recalled in the past three months!.

 

Could 90,000 be lower than 1.7 million? But Honda wouldn't make poor quality cars, right?

 

Should we forget the 12 to 14 million recalled Toyotas during the various 2009-2011 unintended acceleration recalls (which actually killed over 80 people?).

 

Maybe we should mention Chrysler's recent 900,000 cars recalled.

 

How about Toyota recalling 150,000 trucks this year? Is that on the radar?

 

Lets see, there are a whole host of recalls for other vehicles too. VW just recalled a bunch of 2012/2013 New Beetles. Jaguar and Mercedes both just made recalls.

 

Here is a whole host of GM recalls: including 3500 Verano, Cruze, and Sonic models; 4000 Chevy Malibu models, another 4700 Sonic models and just before that a whole 44,000 sonic models, 500,000 Cruzes in June and 14,000 Cadillac XTSs.

 

But yeah, everyone just focus on Ford.

 

Man, I am not even a real Ford guy. This will be my first Ford in over 20 years. But please, can we be realistic here?

 

Cars have hundreds of thousands of parts made by thousands of suppliers and companies build tens of thousands of vehicles PER DAY. A recall is a GOOD THING because they have identified a problem and are fixing it.

 

I find it funny that people will expect auto manufacturers to have zero issues when they produce complex machines thousands of times every day - yet the same people probably make mistakes and have problems at their own jobs. Look I work hard, but some times I have to correct mistakes and sometimes I don't do as good a job as I had hoped or would like. I can only image the same holds true for the million people in the world building cars.

 

As long as they handle them well, as long as they fix the problems and treat customers well - I have no problem with a few recalls here and there.

 

I don't think anyone thinks that Ford is the only company that has ever had a recall. They all have them. The only thing that makes this one worse is that it involves 2 brand new vehicles that are in very important product markets. Ford has also been working hard to market EcoBoost so something like this is the last thing you want. The last issue here is all of these vehicles are being taken off the road, but Ford still has no solution to the problem. They don't know what is causing it.

[GammaRae]

The last issue here is all of these vehicles are being taken off the road, but Ford still has no solution to the problem. They don't know what is causing it.

 

This is the what's most damaging, especially since they are openly admitting it. With that said, my 1.6 built last Friday (same day as recall announced coincidentally) shows no Outstanding Field Service Actions on Etis. Is it just because it's too early for it?

[NickF1011]

This is the what's most damaging, especially since they are openly admitting it. With that said, my 1.6 built last Friday (same day as recall announced coincidentally) shows no Outstanding Field Service Actions on Etis. Is it just because it's too early for it?

 

I want to say they have said it has likely been fixed in production now. And I don't think the problem is that they don't know what's causing it, but that they don't really know an easy remedy for it short of replacing entire engines.

[akirby]

I want to say they have said it has likely been fixed in production now. And I don't think the problem is that they don't know what's causing it, but that they don't really know an easy remedy for it short of replacing entire engines.

 

Yes - that's entirely possible that it's been fixed for new engines but they don't have a repair procedure for existing engines.

[GammaRae]

I want to say they have said it has likely been fixed in production now. And I don't think the problem is that they don't know what's causing it, but that they don't really know an easy remedy for it short of replacing entire engines.

 

If this ends up being the case, and I have considered that especially since there is no OFSA, then I'll be pleased to hear it and grateful for all the eff ups in my order to have delayed build until right when this issue was resolved for production. The problem is, nobody involved with my order has been able to tell me as much.

[Biker16]

Get back to me when you can explain why the same workers can't assemble C2 vehicles as well as they could assemble the prior models built at those plants.

 

yes genius the last vehicle assembled at MAP was the Navigator and Expedition a completely different vehcile and not known for it build quality, and you are inferring some type cuasality between the FOE Focus and overall qlauity of all FOE products.

 

again who order the Lasers turned off to meet production numbers? the Europeens of course, right?

 

SO richard why is the NA lead Fusion haveing this issue now? since the project was taken from FOE to FNA to beinifit quality. but maybe I am infering too much by basing such broad topic only on single factor, among million of different factors, more complex than your mind can handle, right?

 

BTW I thought you were done with me? .

[RichardJensen]

yes genius the last vehicle assembled at MAP was the Navigator and Expedition

How disingenuous of you.

 

You don't deserve rational opposition, but someone should point out your manifold deceits.

[Biker16]

How disingenuous of you.

 

You don't deserve rational opposition, but someone should point out your manifold deceits.

 

I thought you were done with me?

 

you cannot hang every problem at ford around the neck of FOE.

 

Profit does not create better Quality no more than a loss hurts quality.

 

please control your knee Jerks better.

[Hoser768]

Or the Cologne V6 used in the mustang and Explorer made in Germany, was much better than the Old trouble prone 3.8 V6, made in North America.

 

I'll take a 3.8L over a 2.9L Head Cracka' Cologne any day and twice on Sunday.

 

Now is this 90K recall for 90K bad units,,or just containment action until they figure out how to ID the 100-1000 units that actually have a problem

Edited December 5, 2012 by Hoser768

[akirby]

I'll take a 3.8L over a 2.9L Head Cracka' Cologne any day and twice on Sunday.

 

Now is this 90K recall for 90K bad units,,or just containment action until they figure out how to ID the 100-1000 units that actually have a problem

 

It's 90K units that have been produced and it sounds like they know that they all need to be fixed but haven't determined the best way to do it.

[GammaRae]

I want to say they have said it has likely been fixed in production now. And I don't think the problem is that they don't know what's causing it, but that they don't really know an easy remedy for it short of replacing entire engines.

Yes - that's entirely possible that it's been fixed for new engines but they don't have a repair procedure for existing engines.

If this ends up being the case, and I have considered that especially since there is no OFSA, then I'll be pleased to hear it and grateful for all the eff ups in my order to have delayed build until right when this issue was resolved for production. The problem is, nobody involved with my order has been able to tell me as much.

 

I've done a bit of research this evening and here is what I've found:

 

4 ea. build dates of 11/28 with Outstanding Field Service Actions for the overheat issue

3 ea. build dates of 11/30 with NO OFSA

 

Did not locate any build dates of 11/29 in my random search of dealers listed VINs.

 

Hoping this means 11/30 vehicles have the improved engine and will be cleared for shipping immediately. The update from Cyberdman in the morning will be interesting...