Ford's product drought hampers recovery efforts

[Blue Oval Staff]

clcik here for the article

[Edstock]

"But the problem for 2007 is that the product larder looks fairly bare."

 

If you have attention deficit disorder.

 

IIRC, the 2K7 Escape gets replaced in Spring 2K7 with the 2K8. It's a segment leader.

 

As well, the Fusion, starting from zero, is still a fresh car in the mind of the consumer and the re-freshed 500 will attract its share of interest.

 

Yeah, I'd like to see more brand new models, but the journalists present this as the apocalypse of the Ford Motor Company, until next week's apocalypse. The sky is falling!

[Tico]

I was at the dealer ship last month having some service done on my car and I thought to myself, there is nothing in this show room that looks interesting! (Aside from the Mustang and Fusion of course). Ford can not survive on only two sucessful cars! They need to fix the focus and 500 fast and get the Edge into the show room. Put aside your Ford loyalties for a minute and think, there would be a lot more to look at in a MOPAR or GM showroom this month. Where would you want to go "Window Shopping".

 

Come on, be honest....

[swenson88]

I was at the dealer ship last month having some service done on my car and I thought to myself, there is nothing in this show room that looks interesting! (Aside from the Mustang and Fusion of course). Ford can not survive on only two sucessful cars! They need to fix the focus and 500 fast and get the Edge into the show room. Put aside your Ford loyalties for a minute and think, there would be a lot more to look at in a MOPAR or GM showroom this month. Where would you want to go "Window Shopping".

 

Come on, be honest....

 

 

Well, since you offered, tell us what you would be window-shopping at those other dealers? I can't think of too much at either one that gets my blood flowing.

 

GM -

Solstice/Sky - too impractical by far for me, but attractive

new Tahoe - very nicely done, but I think I'm driving my last fullsize truck for awhile

G6 coupe looks nice, but FWD-only not for me

nothing from Buick or Caddy interests me

Corvette I associate with newly-divorced middle-aged men, which I am not

Saab - nothing

none of Chevy's cars are exciting

 

MOPAR -

maybe 300, but it's losing its appeal for me, Charger I didn't like as much

can't think of anything else Chrysler sells that I like at all, their midsize sedans are terrible right now and the upcoming redesign doesn't look like much of an improvement, the Caliber has an atrocious interior and gets poor mpg compared with the competition. I do think the upcoming Nitro looks good I guess. Jeep does't make anything that catches my eye, the last Jeep I liked was the old Cherokee, guess I like the Wrangler but I need more practicality than it offers. I like the Dodge Ram, but again I'm not buying anymore fullsize trucks. Dakota is hideous and might as well be a fullsize truck if all you look at is mpg. Durango isn't for me.

 

So, what gets you excited about DCX or GM over Ford????

[ANTAUS]

I totally agree and really, says everything I feel in this final paragraph he wrote:....

 

"Now Ford wants to speed up restructuring efforts, with talk of taking waste and cost out of the product development process. My immediate reaction to such statements is that we have heard them many times before, and if the main sources of 'waste' have not already been uncovered, then something is clearly amiss. Of equal concern is the question of the personnel involved; where are the product experts, the real car people, among Ford's top ranks? Judged from outside, at least, the bench does not seem that deep.

 

After seeing product droughts hit Ford more than once in the past, one has to ask why it has been allowed to happen again."

[Michael Reynolds]

:blah: :blah: :blah:

 

Let's see how many times we can rephrase the same friggin thing over and over and over again. Duh already. Thank you Mr. McCormick for your ground breaking editorial, as if we didn't hear enough of it when Ford's losses were announced or when July sales were posted. Talk about resurrecting a dead horse, only to beat it again.

[Watchdevil]

So, what gets you excited about DCX or GM over Ford????

 

Window shopping.... Well I will tell you what interests me when I look...

 

At Ford, I gravitate to the Fusions and Mustangs at Ford. Mustangs still gives me warm fuzzies. If there is a Tbird left on the showroom I will drool over that too. I laugh at the Crown Vic and 500... The Crown Vic for looking like a 1980's product in a new century... And I laugh at the 500 for looking too much like an old Passat. At Lincoln I notice the Zephyr and nothing else. Sure I notice the Mark LT but I wouldn't have one... Forget Mercury.. I don't even care... They don't make a Cougar anymore so what's the point. The rest of the Mercurys bore me. Sure I looked at the Milan but if I would rather have a Fusion or a Zephyr. I have no interest in Mazdas, Jaguars and Volvos. I also have no interest in trucks or SUV's anymore.

 

Over at GM, I notice the Impala, Monte Carlo and Cobalt Coupe... I ignore everything else...

 

Pontiac, I look at the G6 coupes with interest.. The Solstice is okay but I like the Sky better....

 

Buick, I notice the Lucerne and I like it... It should probably be the only Buick made as the rest are irrelavent to me.

 

At Saturn the Sky grabs me and gives me warm fuzzies... The new Aura interests me...

 

At Cadillac, the XLR is interesting because I never see many up close. Everything else they have is boring to me...

 

I have no interest in Saab or Hummer... Nor any of the other GM alliances.

 

At Chrysler I tend to notice the 300, Charger and Magnum... And that's it... I used to like Jeeps but SUV's bore me now.

 

At VW, I looked at the Rabbit and GTI... came away bored...

 

At Honda, I like the Civics and Elements.... And the S2000...

 

I notice Mini-Coopers and like them...

 

Everything else not listed either bores me or I am not interested in pretentious, expensive ego-prizes.

[bri719]

I was at the dealer ship last month having some service done on my car and I thought to myself, there is nothing in this show room that looks interesting! (Aside from the Mustang and Fusion of course). Ford can not survive on only two sucessful cars! They need to fix the focus and 500 fast and get the Edge into the show room. Put aside your Ford loyalties for a minute and think, there would be a lot more to look at in a MOPAR or GM showroom this month. Where would you want to go "Window Shopping".

 

Come on, be honest....

 

 

true, but that's 2006. you can add a couple of models in a few months...at least 1 now even.

 

if I had to buy a new car TODAY it would surely be a Ford and I'd either pick between a Mustang (C/S preferably) but more likely the new Sport Trac (my preferred local dealer has 5 in stock)

 

I'm sure the Escape Hybrid is appealing to a whole bunch of people right now, even people who would never consider a Ford otherwise, and the upcoming trim options help

[RichardJensen]

2007 is going to be a short model year for the following cars:

 

Five Hundred

Freestyle

Montego

Escape

Mariner

Tribute

SuperDuty

Focus

 

All are slated for significant changes in a 2008 model year that begins in January.

[NickF1011]

2007 is going to be a short model year for the following cars:

 

Five Hundred

Freestyle

Montego

Escape

Mariner

Tribute

SuperDuty

Focus

 

All are slated for significant changes in a 2008 model year that begins in January.

 

The freshened D3's and Focus are due out that soon? I knew the other ones were going to be pretty early....

[RichardJensen]

The freshened D3's and Focus are due out that soon? I knew the other ones were going to be pretty early....

Job 1 for the new Escapes is apparently in mid Jan.

 

Job 1 for the D3s is Aprilish

 

Job 1 for the Focus is around then or later--the Focus will arrive latest of all these, but I believe it will still be before Sept. 1.

[DCK]

"But the problem for 2007 is that the product larder looks fairly bare."

 

If you have attention deficit disorder.

 

IIRC, the 2K7 Escape gets replaced in Spring 2K7 with the 2K8. It's a segment leader.

 

As well, the Fusion, starting from zero, is still a fresh car in the mind of the consumer and the re-freshed 500 will attract its share of interest.

 

Yeah, I'd like to see more brand new models, but the journalists present this as the apocalypse of the Ford Motor Company, until next week's apocalypse. The sky is falling!

The escape is no longer a segment leader, it was outsold by the jeep liberty in 2005 and will be outsold this year by the rav4. Plus is isn't being replaced it is being refreshed, the exterior styling will change as much as the explorer did, which means it will still look dated.

 

Well, since you offered, tell us what you would be window-shopping at those other dealers? I can't think of too much at either one that gets my blood flowing.

 

GM -

Solstice/Sky - too impractical by far for me, but attractive

new Tahoe - very nicely done, but I think I'm driving my last fullsize truck for awhile

G6 coupe looks nice, but FWD-only not for me

nothing from Buick or Caddy interests me

Corvette I associate with newly-divorced middle-aged men, which I am not

Saab - nothing

none of Chevy's cars are exciting

 

MOPAR -

maybe 300, but it's losing its appeal for me, Charger I didn't like as much

can't think of anything else Chrysler sells that I like at all, their midsize sedans are terrible right now and the upcoming redesign doesn't look like much of an improvement, the Caliber has an atrocious interior and gets poor mpg compared with the competition. I do think the upcoming Nitro looks good I guess. Jeep does't make anything that catches my eye, the last Jeep I liked was the old Cherokee, guess I like the Wrangler but I need more practicality than it offers. I like the Dodge Ram, but again I'm not buying anymore fullsize trucks. Dakota is hideous and might as well be a fullsize truck if all you look at is mpg. Durango isn't for me.

 

So, what gets you excited about DCX or GM over Ford????

 

Please, your whole post was "it doesn't appeal to you" if it had a Blue oval on the cover you'd be all over it.

 

:blah: :blah: :blah:

 

Let's see how many times we can rephrase the same friggin thing over and over and over again. Duh already. Thank you Mr. McCormick for your ground breaking editorial, as if we didn't hear enough of it when Ford's losses were announced or when July sales were posted. Talk about resurrecting a dead horse, only to beat it again.

What do you expect them to do? Turn a blind eye to Ford's total lack of product planning? It will tough until Fields products come out, but until then Ford deserves every bit of negative press, they have brought this on them selves with poor product planning, if it were GM you'd be seeing the same thing in the paper's but GM product portfolio is filled till the eye can see.

 

2007 is going to be a short model year for the following cars:

 

Five Hundred

Freestyle

Montego

Escape

Mariner

Tribute

SuperDuty

Focus

 

All are slated for significant changes in a 2008 model year that begins in January.

The Problem is None of them Are all new even though some of them need to be.

[pcsario]

The escape is no longer a segment leader, it was outsold by the jeep liberty in 2005 and will be outsold this year by the rav4. Plus is isn't being replaced it is being refreshed, the exterior styling will change as much as the explorer did, which means it will still look dated.

 

 

 

Please, your whole post was "it doesn't appeal to you" if it had a Blue oval on the cover you'd be all over it.

 

 

What do you expect them to do? Turn a blind eye to Ford's total lack of product planning? It will tough until Fields products come out, but until then Ford deserves every bit of negative press, they have brought this on them selves with poor product planning, if it were GM you'd be seeing the same thing in the paper's but GM product portfolio is filled till the eye can see.

Bingo.

 

If the new Camry, RAV4, etc. were like the "new" Explorer, 500 and Escape, then people would have a point, but they are not.

 

Not trying to put down what Ford is trying here, but fuck... lets be a little more objective. Maybe they're indeed improved rehashes, but they look different enough to fool people into thinking they're new.

 

I've this feeling the "new" Escape won't fool anyone even with the all new doors and whatnot, kinda like the Fusion and Milan, it'll work but lets not kid ourselves, it's just one step beyond what they did with the Explorer.

[RichardJensen]

Wait a minute.

 

Where's the new family of GM 'b' cars?

 

Where's the new Delta platform?

 

Where's the new 'W' body?

 

Where are the new GM 'people movers'?

 

Where's the new GM competitor to the Edge/Murano/B-9?

 

IF Ford's two years out for these things, GM is even farther out.

 

Just what 'new' product is GM coming out with, aside from an updated Epsilon (comparable to the CD3 launched last year), Lambda CUVs (just like the Freestyle, but 900lbs heavier), and new trucks? What new VOLUME GM product is coming out, aside from these things?

Edited August 6, 2006 by RichardJensen

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

Wait a minute.

 

Where's the new family of GM 'b' cars?

 

Where's the new Delta platform?

 

Where's the new 'W' body?

 

Where are the new GM 'people movers'?

 

Where's the new GM competitor to the Edge/Murano/B-9?

 

IF Ford's two years out for these things, GM is even farther out.

 

Just what 'new' product is GM coming out with, aside from an updated Epsilon (comparable to the CD3 launched last year), Lambda CUVs (just like the Freestyle, but 900lbs heavier), and new trucks? What new VOLUME GM product is coming out, aside from these things?

THE HHR is a hit in Florida. Recent visit and 2000 miles worth of driving on 95 75 and 4. More HHR's than you would imagine. This car vs the Edge

[RichardJensen]

THE HHR is a hit in Florida. Recent visit and 2000 miles worth of driving on 95 75 and 4. More HHR's than you would imagine. This car vs the Edge

Wrong size, wrong price, wrong segment. Other than that.... Well. Yeah. Right on.

[RangeRover]

Bingo.

 

If the new Camry, RAV4, etc. were like the "new" Explorer, 500 and Escape, then people would have a point, but they are not.

 

Not trying to put down what Ford is trying here, but fuck... lets be a little more objective. Maybe they're indeed improved rehashes, but they look different enough to fool people into thinking they're new.

 

I've this feeling the "new" Escape won't fool anyone even with the all new doors and whatnot, kinda like the Fusion and Milan, it'll work but lets not kid ourselves, it's just one step beyond what they did with the Explorer.

 

Well, let me be the first to tell you NEVER trust your feelings because they are wrong. The 2008 Escape looks different both inside and out. I don't know what would make you "Feel" like it won't fool anyone. I don't think Ford tried to fool anyone in the first place. Especially with the new Explorer. Just because it does not look completely different does not mean significant updates were not made. I guess you would prefer the same underpinnings and technology as long the styling looked completely new. Sounds pretty ignorant to me.

 

What does "it's just one step beyond what they did with the Explorer" supposed to mean? The explorer was very well executed in my opinion. The only complaint people have is that it does not look different enough. I would rather have product that only needs cosmetics than an outdated POS car/truck that looks good.

[waymondospiff]

THE HHR is a hit in Florida. Recent visit and 2000 miles worth of driving on 95 75 and 4. More HHR's than you would imagine. This car vs the Edge

 

Yeah. As a Florida resident who has put 23,000 miles on I-95, I-75, I-4, FL-91, I-275, I-10, US-27, FL-408, FL-417, and many, many others since January let me just say, be careful. Florida is full of brand new "Big 3" cars and trucks. But on the driver's side rear window you'll often see a little white or clear barcode sticker. This lovely marking signifies Hertz or National or Budget or Avis or any of the rental companies. I've seen so many 2006 Impalas you'd think they outsold F-150s. But we all know this isn't really true.

 

Not to take away from the HHR. I believe Chevy is on track to sell over 100K this year...but that is an old number. Lousy car if you actually have to drive it, but interesting looking. And it only took them five years to come up with a car uglier, larger, and less spacious than a PT Cruiser. At least it beats a Matrix.

 

Scott

[DCK]

Wait a minute.

 

Where's the new family of GM 'b' cars?

 

Where's the new Delta platform?

 

Where's the new 'W' body?

 

Where are the new GM 'people movers'?

 

Where's the new GM competitor to the Edge/Murano/B-9?

 

IF Ford's two years out for these things, GM is even farther out.

 

Just what 'new' product is GM coming out with, aside from an updated Epsilon (comparable to the CD3 launched last year), Lambda CUVs (just like the Freestyle, but 900lbs heavier), and new trucks? What new VOLUME GM product is coming out, aside from these things?

Umm, the Lambdas will be very very very succesfull for its class. They are all very well designed and get great gas mileage for its size and weight, they offer more room and utility than the competition while not being much lower in gas mileage. The interiors are also very well designed and will attract buyers, the freestyle attracted no-one to the ford brand which wouldn't have a bought a Ford anyways. The edge will because it has the same things as the lambdas going for it, great styling power and soon to be announced fuel economy. The Lambdas will wipe the floor in its segment and the Edge will wipe the floor in its segment.

 

The W cars will be moving over to Rear Wheel Drive zeta platforms as the the epsilon 2 platforms becomes a full "mid-size", The new impala launches next year along with the all new cts. The aveo jujst came out all new and saturn will be getting the next generation corsa from europe though that will be 5 years away. But they still have the aveo to fill that market and had it for sometime now while what did ford have? Nothing. The deawoo partnership is Money in the Bank for GM, Deawoo is the best investment GM has ever made. The Equinox, Torrent and Vue are all competitors to the Murano, also the All new vue will launch next year. The Mini-vans are in question, they have been kept quiet on if they will give up like ford and focus on the CUV's because Chevy is now getting one in 2008 or will they also add a mini-van. Either way they have the fullsize cuv's now not in 2008 when ford will launch the fairline. The astra will also be launching next year, which will no-doubt be a very good car. The new Delta platform will most liekly launch with the all new astra in 2008. But right now their compact cars are actually pretty new and not dated back to 1998 like the focus.

 

GM is in a better position than ford and any analyst will tell you the same, next year ford will be in a much better position than they are right now. But right now Ford has hit rock bottom but will improve, especially with Mark Fields.

Edited August 6, 2006 by DCK

[RichardJensen]

Umm, the Lambdas will be very very very succesfull for its class. They are all very well designed and get great gas mileage for its size and weight, they offer more room and utility than the competition while not being much lower in gas mileage. The interiors are also very well designed and will attract buyers, the freestyle attracted no-one to the ford brand which wouldn't have a bought a Ford anyways. The edge will because it has the same things as the lambdas going for it, great styling power and soon to be announced fuel economy. The Lambdas will wipe the floor in its segment and the Edge will wipe the floor in its segment.

 

The W cars will be moving over to Rear Wheel Drive zeta platforms as the the epsilon 2 platforms becomes a full "mid-size", The new impala launches next year along with the all new cts. The aveo jujst came out all new and saturn will be getting the next generation corsa from europe though that will be 5 years away. But they still have the aveo to fill that market and had it for sometime now while what did ford have? Nothing. The deawoo partnership is Money in the Bank for GM, Deawoo is the best investment GM has ever made. The Equinox, Torrent and Vue are all competitors to the Murano, also the All new vue will launch next year. The Mini-vans are in question, they have been kept quiet on if they will give up like ford and focus on the CUV's because Chevy is now getting one in 2008 or will they also add a mini-van. Either way they have the fullsize cuv's now not in 2008 when ford will launch the fairline. The astra will also be launching next year, which will no-doubt be a very good car. The new Delta platform will most liekly launch with the all new astra in 2008. But right now their compact cars are actually pretty new and not dated back to 1998 like the focus.

 

GM is in a better position than ford and any analyst will tell you the same, next year ford will be in a much better position than they are right now. But right now Ford has hit rock bottom but will improve, especially with Mark Fields.

Your reason for predicting success for the Lambdas is based on your approval of their humpty dumpty styling and the fact that they will be able to seat 8 (it would be more appropriate to state that the Lambdas will com with 8 seat belts). My reason for predicting market apathy is that the market is already full. These are not pioneering entries, these are the last fullsize CUVs that are likely to be launched for some time. They will hit the market just as Chrysler readies a new Pacifica, and Toyota a new Highlander. The best GM can hope for is to stave off inevitable marketshare loss as people move out of fullsize SUVs. These Lambdas weigh more than a 4x4 Explorer. Do you honestly think they're going to have world beating gas mileage?

 

Then there's the Zeta platform. Gee. If this is true, Maximum Bob should be shot out of a cannon. Given one year of hyperactive sales of the 300C, sort of a last fling before this gas crisis brought us all back to our senses, Maximum Bob decided to go all RWD on us. The fact is that unless GM plans on selling tons of zetas in the $30-$40k range, the only proven market for fullsize RWD sedans is only about four customers wide. Two of them are named Hertz and Avis, and you can about guess the names of the other two--oh and the government (which buys Crown Vics). Retail demand for $20-$30k priced RWD sedans is non-existent. And there is some question about just how many fullsize sedans you can sell over $30k.

 

Oh, and GM's purchase of Daewoo. Well, I wonder who makes more money per sale: GM on the sale of an Aveo, or Toyota on the sale of a Scion xB. And I wonder which customer will be worth more over their lifetime.

 

You say Saturn's getting the Corsa in FIVE YEARS? I am amazed that you have the temerity to cite this fact proudly, instead of burying it, in a post designed to prove to me that GM's really moving fast.

 

The Equinox, Torrent, and Vue are competitors to the Escape, not the Edge (check the MSRPs).

 

And we still have no idea what GM's doing with their minivans. Once again, you openly acknowledge this, while slamming Ford for not having a minivan replacement ready for another year or so. Gee, at least we know more or less when Ford's new product is coming. And that it IS coming.

 

The Astra--yeah--really outsells the Focus in Europe. I believe the Astra has been cited as the new benchmark for "C" sized cars in Europe, no wait, that was the Focus. Gee a new Focus arrives at the same time as a new Delta architecture, but with Ford planning on moving the C2 Focus to NA ASAP, GM taking its time with the Delta.

 

----

 

BTW, these analysts that say that GM is doing better than Ford, are they the same analysts that said that Ford was going to buy BMW? One analyst I'm sure you'll find blowing GM's horn is named Philippi. Same guy that said Ford was going to buy BMW in 2000. Works for Merrill Lynch. Maybe you should take his advice with a grain of salt.

 

And what is up with your 'Mark Fields will save the day' stuff? Mark Fields has pushed for the kind of stuff that you hate (you know, commercials with people insted of cars), and he's responsible for such things as axing the plan to federalize the Fiesta, and pushing back the Mustang refresh.

[DCK]

Your reason for predicting success for the Lambdas is based on your approval of their humpty dumpty styling and the fact that they will be able to seat 8 (it would be more appropriate to state that the Lambdas will com with 8 seat belts). My reason for predicting market apathy is that the market is already full. These are not pioneering entries, these are the last fullsize CUVs that are likely to be launched for some time. They will hit the market just as Chrysler readies a new Pacifica, and Toyota a new Highlander. The best GM can hope for is to stave off inevitable marketshare loss as people move out of fullsize SUVs. These Lambdas weigh more than a 4x4 Explorer. Do you honestly think they're going to have world beating gas mileage?

They are rated at 25 mpg highway which is outstanding for their size, their styling is great period. They will wipe the floor with the competition, let's wait and see who is right. I am confident i will be.

Then there's the Zeta platform. Gee. If this is true, Maximum Bob should be shot out of a cannon. Given one year of hyperactive sales of the 300C, sort of a last fling before this gas crisis brought us all back to our senses, Maximum Bob decided to go all RWD on us. The fact is that unless GM plans on selling tons of zetas in the $30-$40k range, the only proven market for fullsize RWD sedans is only about four customers wide. Two of them are named Hertz and Avis, and you can about guess the names of the other two--oh and the government (which buys Crown Vics). Retail demand for $20-$30k priced RWD sedans is non-existent. And there is some question about just how many fullsize sedans you can sell over $30k.

The 300c and charger are both selling well, they are outselling the crown vic(mostly fleets) the avalon

and the 500. I think a nice styled RWD Impala with good fuel economy will sell well.

Oh, and GM's purchase of Daewoo. Well, I wonder who makes more money per sale: GM on the sale of an Aveo, or Toyota on the sale of a Scion xB. And I wonder which customer will be worth more over their lifetime.

 

You say Saturn's getting the Corsa in FIVE YEARS? I am amazed that you have the temerity to cite this fact proudly, instead of burying it, in a post designed to prove to me that GM's really moving fast.

Did i proudly state it? No, i am not here to root for GM i am here to state what i know and give my opinion. GM right now does have the aveo so it isn't like they have nothing to offer, they had the aveo for years. I just pointed out that they do plan to add more vehicles to the B-segment market.

 

The Equinox, Torrent, and Vue are competitors to the Escape, not the Edge (check the MSRPs).

The torrent and equinox are bigger and wider than the vav-4 and more of a Murano's size and have are unibody. The vehicles kind of slot inbetween the segments.

 

And we still have no idea what GM's doing with their minivans. Once again, you openly acknowledge this, while slamming Ford for not having a minivan replacement ready for another year or so. Gee, at least we know more or less when Ford's new product is coming. And that it IS coming.

The Lambdas are launching in a couple months, the fairline is launching when?

 

The Astra--yeah--really outsells the Focus in Europe. I believe the Astra has been cited as the new benchmark for "C" sized cars in Europe, no wait, that was the Focus. Gee a new Focus arrives at the same time as a new Delta architecture, but with Ford planning on moving the C2 Focus to NA ASAP, GM taking its time with the Delta.

WTF does the european focus have to do with anything in america? Did i say the astra was better than the auropean focus? YOu sound likeyour panties bunched up. The astra is a very good car. Are you going to deny that? The Astra is coming to america next year and it is avery good vehicle, so WTH is your beef with it? The european focus is not coming to America and we will get a reskin in 2008 of the same focus that was launched in europe 8 years ago. Then maybe, but we really don't know, is that we may get a c2 focus somewhere around 2011. By the time ford finally brings a new platform for the c segment to america i would guess that the new delta platform will have already been launched here, so what is your argument again?

[waymondospiff]

Both DCK & R.J. - While ya'll are getting riled up about GM vs. Ford ya'llve forgotten about the true target: Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. If Ford & GM continue to fight over the same buyers, they'll both continue to shrink into irrelevance. Ford & GM need to make world-class, competitive cars (not trucks) that both attract consumers and make money. It's not a matter of what category each manufacturers compete in and whose product is newer. Whose product sells and makes money is more important.

 

Scott

[RichardJensen]

Let's look at this from a different point of view: GM's new Lambdas will move--what? maybe 250k volume--that's assuming that the Acadia, Outlook, and Enclave are all immediately the top selling vehicles in the segment (averaging 83k units a piece). You've got new pickups, that's 900k units of volume. Then there's the trickling launch of the new Epsilon, with the Aura, then the Malibu. Call that 350k units of volume we know about (again, being optimistic about volume). We also have the CTS at 50k, and the new Pontiac G5 (100k) We have no ETA for Zeta, we have no ETA for a new Delta, the only things we know are coming in the next year are these new crossovers, new Epsilons, the CTS, and the G5

 

This gives us a total new product launch of 1.7M vehicles over the next year. No other products are receiving face lifts, sheetmetal changes, etc. Just 2.9M units of carryover and 1.7M units of new product. With the most optimistic totals, GM is replacing, or launching about 37% new product.

 

Ford is launching an all new Super Duty (360k units), an all new Mazda6 (100k units), an all new S80 (50k units), an all new Escape/Mariner/Tribute (250k units), the Edge/MKX (150k units), LR2 (45k), C70 (30k), CX-9 (35k). That gives us a total of 1M units, with total annual Ford/Mazda volume of about 3.5M, that means Ford is replacing only about 29% of its lineup outright. However, when you factor in the vehicles that are getting 'face-lifts', including the Expy/Navi (150k), Focus (200k), D3s (200k), you get a further 16% of Ford's lineup that is getting some attention, giving a total of 45% for Ford volume that will be recognizably different by this time next year. By this time next year, GM will have at most 37% of its volume looking 'new'.

 

So yes, it is true that over the next year GM is launching a rather sizable percentage of new volume. However if you remove fullsize trucks from the equation, GM is replacing only 20% of its passenger car/SUV/CUV lineup. Ford, on the other hand (removing fullsize trucks), is replacing 26% of its passenger car lineup, and refreshing a further 21%.

 

Once you remove the outsize impact of the Silverado/Sierra, it becomes a different comparison altogether.

 

Also, please note that I excluded the Expy and Navi from the 'all new' category. Including them with the other all-new vehicles brings the total percentage of new Ford product to 36%. Further, note that Epsilon and Lambda volume was most optimistically estimated. I find it incredibly unlikely that combined Aura and Malibu volume will reach 350k units, or that Lambda volume will reach 250k.

Edited August 6, 2006 by RichardJensen

[TBodette68]

I was at the dealer ship last month having some service done on my car and I thought to myself, there is nothing in this show room that looks interesting! (Aside from the Mustang and Fusion of course). Ford can not survive on only two sucessful cars! They need to fix the focus and 500 fast and get the Edge into the show room. Put aside your Ford loyalties for a minute and think, there would be a lot more to look at in a MOPAR or GM showroom this month. Where would you want to go "Window Shopping".

 

Come on, be honest....

 

I agree..Boring models...boring colors..

[DCK]

Both DCK & R.J. - While ya'll are getting riled up about GM vs. Ford ya'llve forgotten about the true target: Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. If Ford & GM continue to fight over the same buyers, they'll both continue to shrink into irrelevance. Ford & GM need to make world-class, competitive cars (not trucks) that both attract consumers and make money. It's not a matter of what category each manufacturers compete in and whose product is newer. Whose product sells and makes money is more important.

 

Scott

You are 100% correct, the lambdas and the edge will put pressure on the imports who control the cuv market.