Tico

In countries where EV adoption is really high like Norway, most owners charge at home. This more critical than having public chargers everywhere. People need incentives to install home chargers and apartments need incentives to install them too. Public chargers make you pay many times per kilowatt what your home service does. Public is only neede if your going beyond 200 miles before you get back home.

Why only on the GT Premium package? I love my 2020 ecoboost. It has a simple 55th Aniversary plaque stuck on the passenger side dash. Why do I have to pay $55K plus to get the 60th Aniversary badges and stickers? Everything is always for the highest trim levels lately it seems. I am happy with a $35K car and don't want to spend more. I had a GT Premium Mustang back in '04 but that was less HP and slower 0-60 than my '20 ecoboost.

Cost and charging have always been the issue. I know the average transaction in the US is almost $48K but most people are looking for $30K to $45K out the door. Mach E might start at $44K but how many sales are actaully the base model? Try to even find one at that price. Ordering and waiting months is not always an option. The other problem is charging. In countries like Norway where BEV sales are a large porstion of the market, home charging is very common. But considering the cost to install 40A curcuit and charger in garage, its a hard sell. The goverment subsidies if you can even get them, are income limited so if you quailify for help with cost of the electrical upgrades, you are likely not able to afford the vehicle itself. So bottom line BEV is still a luxury vehicle except maybe the Bolt which is going away for a while I think. Hybrids are much more promising for this reason. I love my Escape Hybrid and would upgrade myll Mustang ecoboost if a hybrid version became available. Not interested in V8 hybrid Mustang because of cost and whats the point the ecoboost would still use less gas. New battery and platform tech will get us there but we are still many years away from mass market BEVs. Until then hybrids could fill the gap and plug in hybrids could get people used to plugging in if they actualy use the plug. I make good money but can't see the need to spend more that 30K to 40K on a vehicle when there are so many decent options in that price range. Initial cost is the problem. Also cost of setting up home charging more so than public charging stations which cost too much per kwh anyway.

Becuase the tranny finally blew up on their Focus and they needed a car ASAP.

What is missing, and maybe Ford just can't make money in this segment, is an entry level vehicle. Meaning Under $30K USD out the door including tax. I personally know of at least 4 people, friends or extended family who were or are in the market for "basic" transportation and wanted to buy something new. They asked me about Ford but even searching Maverk invetory around here this is nothing under 30K asking price. Ford has nothing to offer. So they end up looking at Corrola or Civic. Trailblazer or HRV for CUVs. A search online turns up several of Trailblazers and HRVs new at dealerships nearby under 30K. The problem for Ford is once they buy Chevy or Honda or Toyota they are much more likely to go back there if they are ever in a position to buy up to something more expensive. Many of these people were Focus or Fusion owners in the past. I am NOT saying bring back those products. I am saying offer something passionate in the entry level space. There must be something offered outside the USA that could be made in Mexico and sold here at a profit. Yes make is pasionate so people "take a chance" on Ford instead of just going for the HRV or Corrola becuase its an affordable and safe choice.

Price is still the issue with full BEVs IMO. There is only so big a market for $50K to $70K mid sized SUVs and cars. I would guess people who live in apartments vs owning a home where a charger can be installed is not so big an issue. If your renting its often becuase you can't afford to own a stand alone house and probably can't afford a 60K vehicle either. Hybrids will take off because of the lower price and yes becuase you don't have to worry about charger access so much. BEVs are still mostly appealing to same audiance who shop luxury vehicles and yes Tesla is why ahead in brand image with these buyers. Most buyers are in the $30K to $45K price range where few BEVs exist.

Regular gas around MIlwaukee is low of $2.68 at Costco up to $2.99 next to the freeway off ramps. Averaging around $2.85 according to gas buddy app. Not sure why it is so much higher some other parts of the country.

As usual up front cost is the main issue with EV adoption, with access to fast charging a close 2nd. I had a hard time swallowing 35K for my Escape hybrid (not plug in becuase that did not come in AWD). Prices of $50K to $65K are luxury territory and that is what EVs will remain until prices come down close to an ICE or hybrid RAV4 , Escape, CRV etc. We are least 10 years away or more from EVs overtaking ICE sales. I think plug in hybrids are the best value for the money right now. The average wage earner can not go much above $35K or $40K for a new vehicle an afford the monthly payments.

This will sell like hot cakes with MPG ratings in the 40s if the base price is similar to out going model. Of couse everyone here is negative its a Ford forum. I love my Escape hybrid and my other car really is a Mustang. Yes ecoboost but my Stang before that was a GT. Toyota buys will keep bying and they are not brain dead to do so. I would recommend the new camary to any "non car guy" friend looking for a sedan a year from now. Based on facts not what I want them to drive.

West burbs of Milwaukee this morning. Not so bad here. Seems prices vary wildly by region.

Ecoboost hybrid or only V8? A V8 hybrid will be a high priced offering that will sell in limited quantities. It will cost as much as the Mach E higher trim levels. More toys for the rich. What about the rest of us? I would rather see an Ecoboost hybrid that more people could afford. Toyota just annouced good profits the last quarter partly do to having so many hybrid sales. Yes I have owned both V8 and Ecoboost Mustangs.

I have owned a 2011 Escape V6 and now a 2021 Hybrid and had several ICE 2020 plus Escapes as rentals. I am happy with them all. They provide nice package for the price. We did look at Equinox both times, but lack of factory tow package, at least on dealer lots, and higher price kept us buying Escapes. I only pull a small trailer, but it keeps me from needing a pickup every day when I only need to haul something a few times a year the trailer solution is perfect. AWD is a must in Wisconsin winters for my wife. The interior of our 2021 Titanium is nice enough and to us does not feel cheap. The SE trims we had for rentals didn't seem so bad either. I guess I am missing out not test driving RAV4 or CRV? What other makes? What am I missing? AWD, hybrid, and tow package are my main requirements. Admittedly I won't be in the market again for this size crossover until around 2027, by which time I will probably be looking at full electrics. I am sure the Blazer BEV is nice, but it will not really be cross shopped with even higher trim level Escapes because the huge price difference. This is my main problem with all BEVs right now. Even though I could afford them, I don't see the need to spend more than 35K on a daily commuter / grocery getter. There are plenty of good options at this price point.

I am not so sure an ICE sedan makes sense for Ford NA if you're only going to sell 75K a year or less given that it would have to made here to make a profit vs importing. Unless it could share architecture with the Mustang at flat rock? But that is farfetched I know. Maybe just share flat rock. But only if there was a good chance of profit in it and it has to be a competitive offering technology and price wise to get the volumes needed. Finally aways the real question is could those dollars be invested elsewhere for a bigger return? As far as the hybrid discussion , I am all for more hybrids, only because the up front price of full electric vehicles is limiting the size of the market for them. For the vast majority of people 50K plus is not obtainable for a family hauler. That's why small ICE CUVs are the biggest market. Price and utility. Also I must say the talk to V8 Corvette or Mustang hybrids is not the type of offering I am talking about. I am talking about the products similar to Escape or Maverik hybrids. Toyota offers much of their lineup in hybrid form now. So should all the other manufacturs. Bronco Sport and other Ford CUVs / SUVs should have a hybrid offering. Also, I would buy an ecoboost Mustang hybrid as long as it performed as well as the current ecoboost version. Not interested in a 50 or 60K Mustang GT hybrid. My 21 Escape hybrid gets mid 30s and was getting near 40 before I swapped out the eco tires because there sucked in the winter. My current 20 ecoboost Mustang and my old 2.0 ecoboost Fusion only managed mid to high 20s long term. Boosting these numbers into the mid 30s would be enough to make me pay the premium for a hybrid. Still would be much cheaper than mid trim level Mach E. BEVs will rule if they ever get cost down closer to ICE. Until then I think hybrids are a good option for the majority of the market. Yes the average transaction price is over 40K but that means half the buyers are getting something priced in the high 20s or 30s, which mid trim lever BEV can't touch.

Completely not true! There is certainly overlap! I have own a V8 and Ecoboost Mustang and am totally considering a Mach E in few years to replace my ICE Mustang. Many tech workers are also sports car buyers. These are guys and gals who have been buying sports cars for decades but since they are working in high tech they also are attracted to BEVs. There are more than a few tech workers out there with money to buy new cars. They might buy a Corvette or a Tesla depending on many factors. Or in their dreams, both! So don't say there is no overlap. Spoken from experience and a large network of colleages in this industry.

I think for older (over 70) people that are still walking, a crossover is easitest to get in and out of. Most sedans are too low, speicially to get out of. "Real" SUVs are too high. Crossovers are the sweet spot. For people in a wheel chair, my Mustang does seem to be better than my Escape speaking from experience with an elderly family member. So it depends on the person. But overall the crossover seems better for most Seniors. As for electric "crap" the reason for slowing sales I think is the cost pemium to go electric. Between the much higher vehile cost (compare Escape to Mach E) and the cost of installing charger in the garage its out of reach or just doesn't make finance sense for the average car buyer. Electrics are still premium vehicles for luxury car buyers. Noteable exeption is the Volt. If there were decent electric vehicles around 35K on the market sales would be much higher. This is why Ford is talking about building more hybrids I am assuming. Again maybe a "sweet spot" right now. I am quite happy with my Escape Hybrid. The electric transition is just going to take time. 10 years or more before BEV sales surpass ICE. With new lithum sources and solid state batteries and other new tech on the horizon and volumes slowing increase we will get there. Just might be 2035 by the time BEVs are truely price competitive with ICE. Don't forget the chinese are starting to sell BEVs in Europe and the Austrialia. This will drive prices down also. I don't think bringing back a fusion or tauras sedan in the US would be smart business for Ford. Even Toyota and Honda sell more crossovers than sedans now.

Most of the posts in this thread are antidotal rather than dealing with facts. To the people who did try to post actual listening numbers, thank you. Although I didn't check your sources. As far as Ford's decision or future government policy, it should come down to two things. What percentage of people are listening to AM radio daily or weekly, and geographically what percentage of roads in America are not covered by 4G cellular or FM radio? This would give you a good idea how important AM radio is for emergency broadcasts. I would love to see those numbers from objective sources. This is definitely more an issue for rural areas and older listeners. But hard numbers would make arguments and decisions much more clear. I suspect as time goes by AM will become less and less important. It would seem the incentive to eliminate it is interference from EV electric motors which are much bigger than electric motors in ice cars. I assume there's cost involved in shielding those motors so they don't interfere with the AM receiver. Ultimately this is about dollars and not anything else. At some point the cost won't make sense anymore to please a smaller and smaller percentage of customers who either prefer listening to AM radio or have no other coverage on some of the roads they drive.

So anyone have the list of new vehicles for sale under $30K?

I had to google what an RS200 was. Most guy buyers are too young to even remember this. I agree Ford could better use whatever resrources towards mass market products. This is the smallest of niche markets. Even for people who might see it race, what product in the showroom is it going to motivate them to buy?

I agree its mostly people are bad with money. So are many corporations, governments and billionaires. (Yes Elon borrowed some of the money to buy twitter on not such good terms.) When things get tough people those at the edge of their means will always be the first to be hurt. Its not how much you make its how much you keep. I always try to buy a less car, house, etc than I could afford according to the bank, credit union etc. Since my payment is less than I could actually afford given my monthly cashflow I can afford to pay more than minimums most months and pay things off relatively quickly. But I know that one I am in the minority that I can afford to do that, and two many will spend right up to their limit no matter how much they make. Finally yes three many make just enough to get a loan for something basic and then are screwed if anything goes wrong. Prices have been out of crazy the last few years, new and used vehicles. The bubble has to pop sooner or later you would think. I thought I read somewhere repos were increasing already this fall.

I don't know if its 2013 yet. Maybe more like 2010. The LED TVs are there but way more expensive than plasmas. Small ICE crossovers and hybrids will still be the majority of the market for several years. I don't see the sales graphs crossing until late in this decade. RAV4? CRV? Not even Tesla has caught these models yet have they?

Maybe this was due to limited production of Mustang coups, but Mach E outsold ICE Mustangs in November.

I think all legacy automakers are jealous of Tesla not having to work with dealer franchises. The only reason dealers exist is because they have state law makers in there back pocket so no one get the antiquated laws governing car sales repealed. Between the dealer markups and over priced service rates and high pressure extended warranty and add on sales tactics I have no love for the current system. Sure eliminating the dealerships would cost jobs but those cars would get serviced at manufacturer service centers or somewhere else and those places would need people. Sales and finance people would get absorbed into other retail verticals. Its the franchise owners that would lose their high incomes and political power. Sorry rant done, but really I think in 10 or 20 years new car dealers will be a thing of the past or look very different than today. What Ford is doing is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. As more and more new EV companies with no dealers begin to sell in volume the legacy companies will see the dealers as a bigger and bigger net competitive disadvantage rather than a plus.

Ford my be a little bit ahead of the curve here but AM won't exist in 20 year almost for sure. Most people under 35 don't even listen to FM radio. When my 20 something kids in get in the car they immediately start listening to their down loaded playlist on there phone. Listener numbers have been dropping even for FM stations. AM is pretty much been left to sports and political talk radio. And people under 35 go online for those things too. You can down load a play list or podcast for the car or tractor. You should be using Waze for traffic during your commute. Plus many AM sports and political talk show have moved to FM or simulcast on both bands. I know farmers under 40 and the same is true for them, they don't list to over the air radio much in the tractor. Some of the bigger tractors are getting pretty nice inside and blue tooth and satellite and big screens are invading there too. Its a demographic thing and Maverick is aimed at a younger buyer looking for value (code word for less than $35K please!) and a "coolness" factor. AM radio just makes it look cheap and not cool. I see no problem with this. The world is changing. 2030 will look very different from 2020. Keep the AM in the expensive high end vehicles and trims that older people are buying. But in the long run AM and even FM radio will go the same way as cassettes and CDs.

You and your friend represent a small percentage of the 3500 to 5500 mustangs sold each month. The average buyer is in their 50s. In end the market is just not big enough to justify investing in this platform. And there is a good chance it will get smaller as the muscle car market has been for decades now.

I never thought about the muscle care market dying completely. But the average age of buyer is getting quite high compared to other segments I bet. It remains to be seen in 2035 if anyone in their 30s or 40s wants a two door coup any longer. Hell they barely sell 10,000 a month now combined! Most of the younger (under 40) car guy people I know are into hot hatches and compact imports (think Focus S/T) not Mustangs and Challengers. Any BEV crossover will be able to come out with a "sport" trim level that matches muscle car performance if there is a market. So why buy a two door thing with trunk? That may sound sacrilegious to boomers and gen x, but millennials and gen z will be driving the market buy 2035. Hot small crossover BEV = evolution of the hot hatch market? Software updates are right up the alley of 20 somethings who are building there own gaming computers and jail breaking there phones today and flying drones. There will always be performance versions of some vehicles sold. What shape they will take is good question. Again it sure would be nice if they used the same names as the performance ICE legends once they are gone. Original point of muscle cars was lots of horse power per dollar spent. As long as that carries forward why not. There will be a BEV Mustang coup as long as enough people are willing to buy them. For myself if the 2030 Mach E Crossover and Mach E coupe are the same car with different body, why wouldn't I take the hatch and have a little more utility?