Lincoln's Renaissance Needs a Jump?

[jpd80]

? SRX. It's basically the same vehicle

 

I doubt the Lexus version sells more.

 

Going in the opposite direction, compare sales of the 3-Series & C-Class with the 5-Series & E-Class.

SRX is a lot bigger, 190" long, 110" wheelbase, curb weight 4200 lbs....LINK

[BrewfanGRB]

You can get a LED Headlights and DRL's, heated steering wheel and heated rear seats on a few vehicles in the Fusion class (Altima, Kia, Hyundai, Honda). Ford doesn't offer them on the Fusion, you need an MKZ for that. That isn't want makes a Luxury brand. Either spend the money and make Lincoln a real car with a real product launch or limp along and rob both Ford and Lincoln of great success.

 

I know I've griped about this before...but honestly, aside from the larger engine (and better leather), there's really one thing I'd LOVE to have that I need the MKZ for...and that's the heated steering wheel. Rear heated seats? In 103500 miles put on this car in 49 months, I can count the number of times ANYONE's been in the backseat on just over 1 hand. And *I* personally have only been in the backseat while the car was being driven ONCE. I could give a shit about people in the backseat. But my hands are on the wheel at 1 in the morning in -15F weather all the time.

 

Nissan has no real reason to offer a heated wheel on the Altima--it could offer it on the Maxima only...or on the Infiniti models....but they do. And why doesn't the Fusion have HIDs, at least?? There are a lot of feature offer decisions that get hamstrung by the Lincoln/Ford issue. It still would take a hard decision for my next car to not be a Fusion (it probably takes 2 promotions to get me into a Lincoln--but it'd almost certainly be an MKC)...but it's no longer a slam dunk. And that's disappointing.

[BrewfanGRB]

You own a rental special 2002 Taurus, that you probably bought used................. and you want to school me on Ford loyalty?? I currently own a lot more, and newer Ford metal, than you would even consider............ seeing as how most of what Ford builds and does, you hate so much. So don't go there.

 

Ha Ha Ha!! I love this. FordBuyer is soooo busy trying to convince us he's the greatest Ford customer ever...while he drives an 11 year old car. He wouldn't know a thing about today's Fords and what they mean to the company or its buyers if one of them ran him over at a Porsche Wannabe event.

[BrewfanGRB]

Richard, at some point Lincoln has to make a great car, not just an idealistic business model.

 

Good Lord. You are still woefully ignorant of Ford's reason for being. It only exists for ONE REASON. TO. MAKE. MONEY. That's it. It doesn't matter how they do it. Why is this so damned hard for people to understand? Some people may WANT Lincoln to do SOMETHING, but it's irrelevant. It only has to do things that make money. That's it.

[jpd80]

From the conference call:

Ford has already shipped over 4600 MKZs to dealers, vehicles are no longer being shipped to Flat Rock

and expects all extra quality checks to be completed in the next 10-15 days.

 

 

MKZ Demographics:

- 28% of buyers are under 50 years old

- 54% of buyers are under 60 years old

 

45% conquest sale rate...

 

Fleet sales for Ford Brand for march = 32%

- 14% was Commercial fleets

- 4% was government

- 14% was daily Rentals

Edited April 3, 2013 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

With 2.300 sales last month, it's fairly safe to assume that all pre-orders have now been filled

Judging by some posters over on the MKZ section, that doesn't seem to be the case yet at all, unfortunately.

[NickF1011]

Nissan has no real reason to offer a heated wheel on the Altima--it could offer it on the Maxima only...or on the Infiniti models....but they do. And why doesn't the Fusion have HIDs, at least?? There are a lot of feature offer decisions that get hamstrung by the Lincoln/Ford issue.

There's no real evidence to indicate Ford would actually offer those features on their vehicles if Lincoln didn't exist though. How long did it take them to finally offer HID's on the Mustang? It's not like there's any Lincoln counterpart to that to artificially limit the options. Sometimes automakers just don't offer options on vehicles to keep production simpler...much like the black-only interiors on Fusion Titaniums.

[BORG]

A key deciding factor for me on the Lincoln MKX came down to a heated steering wheel, that is one feature I was unwilling to live without. However, Edge and Explorer recently gained this feature which had me looking at Ford again (I really don't care about cooled seats, I've never found them terribly effective). At this point, there are no features on a Lincoln which distinguish themselves from the Ford, beyond the qualitative experience of sight, feel, and sound. Lincoln won't win this race based on features alone. And personally, I'm not that interested in electronic chassis controls, at least without owning such a vehicle. I've had them before, and like paddle shifters, I really don't want to have to decide the best way to drive and setup the car and just hope I can ignore them and still be happy with the default behavior.

Edited April 3, 2013 by BORG

[NickF1011]

A key deciding factor for me on the Lincoln MKX came down to a heated steering wheel, that is one feature I was unwilling to live without. However, Edge and Explorer recently gained this feature which had me looking at Ford again (I really don't care about cooled seats, I've never found them terribly effective). At this point, there are no features on a Lincoln which distinguish themselves from the Ford, beyond the qualitative experience of sight, feel, and sound. Lincoln won't win this race based on features alone. And personally, I'm not that interested in electronic chassis controls, at least without owning such a vehicle. I've had them before, and like paddle shifters, I really don't want to have to decide the best way to drive and setup the car and just hope I can ignore them and still be happy with the default behavior.

You're not really going to see much difference between them until they are redesigned. Look to the MKC/Escape to see what I'd predict for the MKX/Edge content and feature differences going forward.

[hbalek]

A key deciding factor for me on the Lincoln MKX came down to a heated steering wheel, that is one feature I was unwilling to live without. However, Edge and Explorer recently gained this feature which had me looking at Ford again (I really don't care about cooled seats, I've never found them terribly effective). At this point, there are no features on a Lincoln which distinguish themselves from the Ford, beyond the qualitative experience of sight, feel, and sound. Lincoln won't win this race based on features alone. And personally, I'm not that interested in electronic chassis controls, at least without owning such a vehicle. I've had them before, and like paddle shifters, I really don't want to have to decide the best way to drive and setup the car and just hope I can ignore them and still be happy with the default behavior.

 

This reminds me of why I miss driving a manual transmission! The feeling of actively being one with the machine instead of a passenger. Anyone who drove a Contour 5-speed with 2.5 Duratec would relate to this feeling... If I were still in my 20's I'd buy a Focus ST in a heartbeat! But I've evolved into a luxury car customer.

Edited April 3, 2013 by hbalek

[BORG]

This reminds me of why I miss driving a manual transmission! The feeling of actively being one with the machine instead of a passenger. Anyone who drove a Contour 5-speed with 2.5 Duratec would relate to this feeling... If I were still in my 20's I'd buy a Focus ST in a heartbeat! But I've evolved into a luxury car customer.

 

It's easy to get spoiled by the 'it just works' feeling of well engineered vehicles, like the adaptive cruise on my MKX which makes driving 10x more relaxing (and possibly why I'm driving too much lately).

Edited April 3, 2013 by BORG

[hbalek]

I'm not looking forward to totally autonomous vehicles. The new MKZ really made me feel like a pasenger with lane-keeping engaged especially, along with adaptive cruise. The car really drove itself and I just had to stay alert enough to make sure it didn't make any mistakes, which it doesn't, btw! LOL The most fun I had driving it was when I turned all of the electronics off on the way back to the dealer. I understand how these aids are great for long, stressful drives where you want to relax and enjoy the ride. But on a daily basis, they really take the joy out of driving!

[NickF1011]

I'm not looking forward to totally autonomous vehicles. The new MKZ really made me feel like a pasenger with lane-keeping engaged especially, along with adaptive cruise. The car really drove itself and I just had to stay alert enough to make sure it didn't make any mistakes, which it doesn't, btw! LOL The most fun I had driving it was when I turned all of the electronics off on the way back to the dealer. I understand how these aids are great for long, stressful drives where you want to relax and enjoy the ride. But on a daily basis, they really take the joy out of driving!

Well that's why automakers usually give you the ability to turn most of the gadgetry off. It's good to know it's there if you choose to use it though.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

More thoughts on the MKC,

 

Every maker seems to be getting ready to assault this market segment, and it is unproven if many buyers really want a luxury compact CUV. This might all be too big of a supply to a demand no more popular than that for luxury mini-vans. I guess I just don't understand the desirability in over-tarting such small, utilitarian "not really cars and not really SUV thingys".

 

The Escape is already priced nearly a couple thou higher than its competitors for like features. This would put the MKC very near to brands like Audi and Benz which are entering this segment, too. L-M couldn't market the Escape based Mariner which came in at less of a premium than will the MKC. The reality is that Lincoln has yet to prove that it can effectively market any vehicle, but I'm hoping they can at least turn the MKZ around.

 

The MKC could be the most popular selling Lincoln, but still be far short of meeting expectations and being the success it needs to be.

[ZanatWork]

I actually have pretty high hopes for the MKC. I wasn't sure about the new Escape as Ford customers had previously responded very well to the 2007-ish "boxier" bodysyle; I didn't know if the curvier body would sell. Obviously, it does.

The MKZ may have stigma already, and my concerns about the car have only grown since my initial so-so impressions. All the advertising has basically become an expensive flag waving over production issues, and it has a deep perception hole to crawl out of already. The MKC, on the other hand, is maybe my favorite overall example of modern Lincoln styling and is heading into a segment that is rife with people trading up from their Escapes, CR-Vs, and RAV4s. If they can do a media AND product launch at the same time, it should be a strong seller out of the gate. Of course, that will also depend on the as-yet-unnamed powertrains.

[jpd80]

It's easy to get spoiled by the 'it just works' feeling of well engineered vehicles, like the adaptive cruise on my MKX which makes driving 10x more relaxing (and possibly why I'm driving too much lately).

I guess that's part of the luxury vehicle experience, you can describe it all you like but until someone actually feels it for themselves, it's all just words.

Getting people into new Lincolns and going for test drives, that IMO is the key , just let the vehicle do the talking....

 

Is there a simple way that the styling could be changed slightly to increase their appeal, is the grill out of proportion?

Edited April 4, 2013 by jpd80

[hbalek]

Once you experience and possess any luxury item or feature it's nearly impossible to live without. Think of all the gadgets and features we've gotten accustomed to and they have become necessities! Once they become routine, they trickle down to everyone.

[RichardJensen]

All the advertising has basically become an expensive flag waving over production issues, and it has a deep perception hole to crawl out of already.

 

For people that pay a lot of attention and probably aren't buying anything.

 

People entering the market in, say, September generally speaking won't know and won't care.

Edited April 4, 2013 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

For people that pay a lot of attention and probably aren't buying anything.

 

People entering the market in, say, September generally speaking won't know and won't care.

In the conference call Ford's Ken Czubay gave these figures:

 

Lincoln MKZ,

- 45% conquest rate

- 54% of buyers under 60 yars of age

- 28% 0f buyers under 50 years of age

 

MKZ is not damaged goods, buyers are taking it up as they arrive and I'd expect sales next month to be even higher.

As I've mentioned before, attractive leasing deals like Fusion would certainly sooth a lot of ruffled feathers..

[BORG]

I actually don't fully understand the concern that the MKZ feels too artificial, for me that's part of the joy of a Lincoln...the serentiy and relaxed peacefulness of a Lincoln is why I buy them. I'm always struck by how unsettling driving can be if it's in a lesser car, it makes me less likely to travel or to dread it. But this is coming from the perspective of somebody who has lived with Lincolns for years now, it's hard to prefer another way of driving. And it's not like my Lincoln's are not fun to drive, they are powerful and well poised, the only exception was my 2007 MKX which was pretty pokey and floppy around the city so I had to drive that thing like an old man (although the 2005 Lincoln LS was so softened it felt almost as floppy). My 2011/2013 MKX might as well be sports cars, I can chase down just about anything in those cars despite the fact they are tall and heavy.

Edited April 4, 2013 by BORG

[hbalek]

I actually don't fully understand the concern that the MKZ feels too artificial, for me that's part of the joy of a Lincoln...the serentiy and relaxed peacefulness of a Lincoln is why I buy them. I'm always struck by how unsettling driving can be if it's in a lesser car, it makes me less likely to travel or to dread it. But this is coming from the perspective of somebody who has lived with Lincolns for years now, it's hard to prefer another way of driving. And it's not like my Lincoln's are not fun to drive, they are powerful and well poised, the only exception was my 2007 MKX which was pretty pokey and floppy around the city so I had to drive that thing like an old man (although the 2005 Lincoln LS was so softened it felt almost as floppy). My 2011/2013 MKX might as well be sports cars, I can chase down just about anything in those cars despite the fact they are tall and heavy.

 

Lincoln is not Lexus, the luxury brand for people who hate cars and driving! LOL

[NickF1011]

More thoughts on the MKC, Every maker seems to be getting ready to assault this market segment, and it is unproven if many buyers really want a luxury compact CUV. This might all be too big of a supply to a demand no more popular than that for luxury mini-vans. I guess I just don't understand the desirability in over-tarting such small, utilitarian "not really cars and not really SUV thingys". The Escape is already priced nearly a couple thou higher than its competitors for like features. This would put the MKC very near to brands like Audi and Benz which are entering this segment, too. L-M couldn't market the Escape based Mariner which came in at less of a premium than will the MKC. The reality is that Lincoln has yet to prove that it can effectively market any vehicle, but I'm hoping they can at least turn the MKZ around. The MKC could be the most popular selling Lincoln, but still be far short of meeting expectations and being the success it needs to be.

Did you really just compare the MKC to the Mariner? The MKC is Escape-based. The Mariner WAS an Escape with a waterfall grille.

 

And comparing MKX prices to some of its more upper tier competitors, I think it's safe to say the MKC will also undercut those competitors in price.

Edited April 4, 2013 by NickF1011

[BORG]

Lincoln is not Lexus, the luxury brand for people who hate cars and driving! LOL

 

LOL, this is Lincoln, the originator of the insulated driving experience. That's why Lincoln is modeling Lexus because Lexus made it modern and successful while re-using mainstream products for maximum profitability. They even have former Lexus executives at Lincoln, Mulally even drove his Lexus LS to Ford HQ back in the day. There is no car maker more like Lexus than Lincoln. And you have to remember Lexus has lots of performance oriented cars, the ones Lincoln are replicating (ES, RX) are not them. Actually, the MKZ and MKX exist because of Lexus.

 

Caddy is targeting BMW/Mercedes/Audi customers along with Lexus (think XTS and SRX). Buick and Lincoln are targeting some of Lexus customers and possibly Audi customers. These tends to be value conscious individualists who want something different and personal and care less about perception and performance. I know I tend to be an Audi admirer, it's what I want Lincoln to be and there are hints of it happening here and there with cars like the MKZ, although Lincoln still hangs onto its bad habits with the bad wood applique, painted plastics, and bland interior coloring.

Edited April 4, 2013 by BORG

[silvrsvt]

Caddy is targeting BMW/Mercedes/Audi customers along with Lexus

 

People buy BMW and Mercedes for the name/cache they have...I think people (and reviewers) get blinded by this...when their lesser models (entry level ones) aren't that special

[hbalek]

LOL, this is Lincoln, the originator of the insulated driving experience. That's why Lincoln is modeling Lexus because Lexus made it modern and successful while re-using mainstream products for maximum profitability. They even have former Lexus executives at Lincoln, Mulally even drove his Lexus LS to Ford HQ back in the day. There is no car maker more like Lexus than Lincoln. And you have to remember Lexus has lots of performance oriented cars, the ones Lincoln are replicating (ES, RX) are not them. Actually, the MKZ and MKX exist because of Lexus.

 

Caddy is targeting BMW/Mercedes/Audi customers along with Lexus (think XTS and SRX). Buick and Lincoln are targeting some of Lexus customers and possibly Audi customers. These tends to be value conscious individualists who want something different and personal and care less about perception and performance. I know I tend to be an Audi admirer, it's what I want Lincoln to be and there are hints of it happening here and there with cars like the MKZ, although Lincoln still hangs onto its bad habits with the bad wood applique, painted plastics, and bland interior coloring.

 

I think everyone is emulating Lexus and Audi these days for their innovation and attention to detail. I am an Audi fan for the past 12 years or so and a Lincoln fan for over 30! I wouldn't mind it if Lincoln wants to be a cross between Audi and Lexus. Audi innovation and modern driving experience with Lexus reliability and quality! That's exactly how the MKZ felt to me but without losing that "old" American luxury look and feel. If you look at the history of luxury autos, the Americans invented it, the Germans reinvented it and the Japanese copied aspects of both and perfected it!

 

BTW, everytime I use my "clunky" gear selector, it feels odd now, as I remember how slick, smooth and just plain cool the push button transmission was in the MKZ. It really grew on me and I think that Lincoln is really onto something with this feature.

Edited April 4, 2013 by hbalek