silvrsvt Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 BTW, everytime I use my "clunky" gear selector, it feels odd now, as I remember how slick, smooth and just plain cool the push button transmission was in the MKZ. It really grew on me and I think that Lincoln is really onto something with this feature. They had push button transmissions in the 1950-60's but they were unreliable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbalek Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) They had push button transmissions in the 1950-60's but they were unreliable Oh I know, my buddy has a '59 Dodge with one! Although those old buttons were clunkier and noisier than my 2010 gear selector. Edited April 4, 2013 by hbalek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 There's no real evidence to indicate Ford would actually offer those features on their vehicles if Lincoln didn't exist though. How long did it take them to finally offer HID's on the Mustang? It's not like there's any Lincoln counterpart to that to artificially limit the options. Sometimes automakers just don't offer options on vehicles to keep production simpler...much like the black-only interiors on Fusion Titaniums. Ok, that's a fair point. We don't KNOW that Ford is holding stuff back on the Fusion to create Lincoln exclusivity. But it can't be PURELY simplicity of production, because the MKZ is built in the same plant and it has those features. You could charge a premium price for those features on the Fusion and it wouldn't be TOO hard to build. And it doesn't entirely answer the question because the safety tech that is usually held for the luxury vehicles is available in the Fusion--lane keeping, etc (not just BLIS). As I've said in my other posts, I'm always willing to defer to those that know more than I--after all, Ford's running the business, not me. But this kind of thing really does smack of keeping something for Lincoln only. (Which I understand why they would do that and I can't really complain about that). As for HIDs and the Mustang, my guess is Ford's market research said the type of buyer that buys the Mustang didn't have the interest in those features? That is, they'd rather have more power or better brakes than "whiz-bang" features. But of course, now that HIDs have really caught up in the market, so have the buyers' tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 JPD, I think you are being generous. I would venture to say it will be a very long time before ATS and CTS see a profit. Of course, that depends on how much of the development costs GM slips into other brands. Much like with Zeta, where the vast majority of the costs were charged to Holden. I guess that is why they like multiple brands. I look forward to seeing the production MKC, and seeing it on sale. A completely new product to the brand will be exciting. I agree. An MKC, if priced similarly to the MKZ (i.e. similar price points for similarly equipped vehicles in different classes), it might be attractive to me. But likely to be still out of my price range. A Fusion Titanium is going to be a stretch as-is. But I'm REALLY loving the MKC design and I really want a better winter vehicle for my commute. Very torn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Ok, that's a fair point. We don't KNOW that Ford is holding stuff back on the Fusion to create Lincoln exclusivity. But it can't be PURELY simplicity of production, because the MKZ is built in the same plant and it has those features. You could charge a premium price for those features on the Fusion and it wouldn't be TOO hard to build. And it doesn't entirely answer the question because the safety tech that is usually held for the luxury vehicles is available in the Fusion--lane keeping, etc (not just BLIS). As I've said in my other posts, I'm always willing to defer to those that know more than I--after all, Ford's running the business, not me. But this kind of thing really does smack of keeping something for Lincoln only. (Which I understand why they would do that and I can't really complain about that). You also just run into the price barrier that people are willing to spend on a "regular" Ford compared to a luxury brand. MKZ prices approach $50K. Would anyone really be willing to spend that kind of coin on a plebian Ford Fusion? Not many, I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 An MKC, if priced similarly to the MKZ (i.e. similar price points for similarly equipped vehicles in different classes), it might be attractive to me. But likely to be still out of my price range. See thats the psychological barrier that Nick brought up. I was getting that myself with MKZ vs the SHO...I thought the SHO was worth the money I paid for it...no so much the MKZ. I have about 85% of the same options that the MKZ has, but in a package that is more appealing to me (and I'm not quite ready to admit to buying a Lincoln, which still has a bit of Old Man's Car stigma to me ) Its good to have options like that though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g2marleyjunt Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Crap article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 See thats the psychological barrier that Nick brought up. I was getting that myself with MKZ vs the SHO...I thought the SHO was worth the money I paid for it...no so much the MKZ. I have about 85% of the same options that the MKZ has, but in a package that is more appealing to me (and I'm not quite ready to admit to buying a Lincoln, which still has a bit of Old Man's Car stigma to me ) Its good to have options like that though! I'm comfortable spending more for a Lincoln because I think it's usually worth it, but the MKZ is a different story. The features and design do not add enough value to overcome other weaknesses to command such pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'm comfortable spending more for a Lincoln because I think it's usually worth it, but the MKZ is a different story. The features and design do not add enough value to overcome other weaknesses to command such pricing. I just can't agree with that reasoning. If anything, I would say the MKZ price premium is more justified than on any other current Lincoln offering based on unique features and design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'm comfortable spending more for a Lincoln because I think it's usually worth it, but the MKZ is a different story. The features and design do not add enough value to overcome other the weaknesses I think it hasto command such pricing. Fixed it for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I just can't agree with that reasoning. If anything, I would say the MKZ price premium is more justified than on any other current Lincoln offering based on unique features and design. If anything there is less differaniton between the Edge and MKX....which is his current ride... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 If anything there is less differaniton between the Edge and MKX....which is his current ride... Yes. I really couldn't justify the extra money for the MKX...plus it didn't offer the 22" wheels at the time which my Sport has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Not sure where to put this, but I drove through a local Lincoln dealer's lot and saw they had several new MKZs out front. One thing about them that I didn't know is the fender-mounted antenna is ONLY on models with the retractable roof. Models with the regular sunroof or metal roof did not have the fender mounted antenna. I was under the impression that ALL models had it, but I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) I just can't agree with that reasoning. If anything, I would say the MKZ price premium is more justified than on any other current Lincoln offering based on unique features and design. The Edge base MSRP starts off at $27K, the Fusion starts off at $22K. The top end MKX and MKZ top off at the same $53K. I don't feel the MKX and MKZ are worth the same and I don't think the MKZ has earned that type of price leap. So no, I would never buy an MKZ at that price, and I have never felt that way about any Lincoln before. Now if you take an MKX, give it the MKZ treatment, I'll give you a bit more for it gladly...but the MKZ pricing just makes no sense to me since it doesn't offer profoundly expensive features that a Ford doesn't also offer. It comes down to electronic chassis controls, a 3.7 L V6 (which I have standard in an MKX anyway), a push button transmission, Active Noise Cancellation, and a glass roof (the Edge and MKX has an even bigger one). Other features include LED headlights (which are dimmer than HIDs so no thanks), and interior accent lighting (Chevy Malibu has this so what value?). The rest comes down to design, materials, and warranty/dealership experience. So when I look at those features combined with the cramped interior with fairly unimpressive interior materials and I don't understand how this price happened. Edited April 6, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 The Edge base MSRP starts off at $27K, the Fusion starts off at $22K. The top end MKX and MKZ top off at the same $53K. I don't feel the MKX and MKZ are worth the same and I don't think the MKZ has earned that type of price leap. the MKZ has tons of features not available on the MKX. Adaptive LED headlamps, push button shifting, Lincoln Ride Control and several other things that are easily worth an extra $5K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) And the Bigger-AMR. Looking at prices without seeing what the money buys doesn't make a lot of sense. Edited April 6, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) The Edge base MSRP starts off at $27K, the Fusion starts off at $22K. The top end MKX and MKZ top off at the same $53K. I don't feel the MKX and MKZ are worth the same and I don't think the MKZ has earned that type of price leap. So no, I would never buy an MKZ at that price, and I have never felt that way about any Lincoln before. Now if you take an MKX, give it the MKZ treatment, I'll give you a bit more for it gladly...but the MKZ pricing just makes no sense to me since it doesn't offer profoundly expensive features that a Ford doesn't also offer. It comes down to electronic chassis controls, a 3.7 L V6 (which I have standard in an MKX anyway), a push button transmission, Active Noise Cancellation, and a glass roof (the Edge and MKX has an even bigger one). Other features include LED headlights (which are dimmer than HIDs so no thanks), and interior accent lighting (Chevy Malibu has this so what value?). The rest comes down to design, materials, and warranty/dealership experience. So when I look at those features combined with the cramped interior with fairly unimpressive interior materials and I don't understand how this price happened. It looks like the Lincoln starting price approximates $8,000 above the Titanium version of Ford Originator. Almost as though the starting price is set first and then features added to make the perception favorable to the price.. Edited April 6, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.