Lincoln Dealers in Detroit, Top Secret Presentation

[PREMiERdrum]

A friend of mine, who is a Lincoln dealer, posted this:

 

"Getting ready to go Top Secret for a few hours. No phone allowed. How exciting!" near Detroit, MI

 

I wonder what they're peeking at? New MKS? Aviator? They've already seen production-spec MKC.

 

Does anybody know more?

[silvrsvt]

Well with Ford showing off the CD4.3 (AKA Taurus and MKS) attribute mule to C&D and the Edge accidently leaked in that PDF, I'd assume that they'll see next gen MKX and MKS...or at least a rendering/whatever of the MKS, but the MKX is the next one up after the MKC for Lincoln.

 

I wouldn't expect the MKExplorer for a while...which is a shame.

[BORG]

A friend of mine, who is a Lincoln dealer, posted this:

 

"Getting ready to go Top Secret for a few hours. No phone allowed. How exciting!" near Detroit, MI

 

I wonder what they're peeking at? New MKS? Aviator? They've already seen production-spec MKC.

 

Does anybody know more?

On Twitter?

 

They are probably going to see the MKS and MKX. Man I would love that!

Edited April 9, 2013 by BORG

[transitman]

I read on an Escape forum some fellow stating there are MKC body parts all over the plant and a finished vehicle under wraps. Maybe it's the official unveiling of the MKC?

[NickF1011]

Double Secret Probation!

[PREMiERdrum]

On Twitter?

 

They are probably going to see the MKS and MKX. Man I would love that!

 

It was on Facebook.

 

Well with Ford showing off the CD4.3 (AKA Taurus and MKS) attribute mule to C&D and the Edge accidently leaked in that PDF, I'd assume that they'll see next gen MKX and MKS...or at least a rendering/whatever of the MKS, but the MKX is the next one up after the MKC for Lincoln.

 

I wouldn't expect the MKExplorer for a while...which is a shame.

 

Which is odd.... MKExplorer was first planned to debut with Explorer's MCE.

[silvrsvt]

Which is odd.... MKExplorer was first planned to debut with Explorer's MCE.

 

taking a grand look out to 2020 or so...what would you do? Come out with a MKExplorer for 3-4 years, just to replace it with a totally new model? I'd expect the D3 Explorer to last in the retail market till 2018MY or so...it just came out as a 2011MY product.

[PREMiERdrum]

taking a grand look out to 2020 or so...what would you do? Come out with a MKExplorer for 3-4 years, just to replace it with a totally new model? I'd expect the D3 Explorer to last in the retail market till 2018MY or so...it just came out as a 2011MY product.

 

D4 isn't a forgone conclusion... it is living on under PI and PIU, and next-gen Explorer's architecture isn't locked down yet.

[BORG]

taking a grand look out to 2020 or so...what would you do? Come out with a MKExplorer for 3-4 years, just to replace it with a totally new model? I'd expect the D3 Explorer to last in the retail market till 2018MY or so...it just came out as a 2011MY product.

 

I think the 2011 Explorer will be on a shorter lifespan considering the age of the platform.

[BORG]

D4 isn't a forgone conclusion... it is living on under PI and PIU, and next-gen Explorer's architecture isn't locked down yet.

Ford does not sell many Police cars, less than 2,000 a month between two models. There is no reason to orphan products for that business.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BORG

[silvrsvt]

I think the 2011 Explorer will be on a shorter lifespan considering the age of the platform.

 

That I understand, but I really don't see Ford pulling the plug on it before 2017MY....it would be in production for only 6-7 years with a refresh that would be done as a 2015MY.

[silvrsvt]

Ford doesn't not sell many Policy cars, less than 2,000 a month between two models. There is no reason to orphan products for that business.

 

 

Fleets don't like changes to their product and there really isn't an issue to carry the D3 PI and PIU till 2020...though with the rumors going around, it sounds like the next gen MKS/Taurus will move to Flat Rock...which would make Flat Rock a pretty busy place for a change. Figure at least 100K Mustangs a year, 150-250K year Fusions and another 100-150K MKS/Taurus a year.

 

its also possible that the Explorer might move to Oakville when the Flex and MKT go away, since they'll have space there for it and I have a feeling the Explorer will be a 3 row Edge.

 

So with that being said, what does Ford do with Chicago long term?

[BORG]

Fleets don't like changes to their product and there really isn't an issue to carry the D3 PI and PIU till 2020...though with the rumors going around, it sounds like the next gen MKS/Taurus will move to Flat Rock...which would make Flat Rock a pretty busy place for a change. Figure at least 100K Mustangs a year, 150-250K year Fusions and another 100-150K MKS/Taurus a year.

 

its also possible that the Explorer might move to Oakville when the Flex and MKT go away, since they'll have space there for it and I have a feeling the Explorer will be a 3 row Edge.

 

So with that being said, what does Ford do with Chicago long term?

Isn't there a rumor that Ford will be launching a minivan with the next Explorer?

[NickF1011]

Isn't there a rumor that Ford will be launching a minivan with the next Explorer?

There have been some rumblings, but I think Ford would think long and hard on that one before re-committing. Always the ever-present possibility of a new small truck returning down the road also.

[BORG]

The Hyundai Santa Fe/Santa Fe Sport is probably a good indicator on how Ford will treat Edge and Explorer going forward, although I don't think they'll share as much as the Hyundai pair. Which also means that a new Explorer is pretty damn close to production the minute the Edge is ready.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BORG

[rkisler]

A friend of mine, who is a Lincoln dealer, posted this:

 

"Getting ready to go Top Secret for a few hours. No phone allowed. How exciting!" near Detroit, MI

 

I wonder what they're peeking at? New MKS? Aviator? They've already seen production-spec MKC.

 

Does anybody know more?

I don't know what this meeting might be about, but to me it seems like "deja vu all over again."

 

The last time Ford tried a Lincoln renaissance (around 2000), the dealers were asked to make significant investments to upgrade their dealerships in return for promised new, unique products. So the Lincoln Dealer Council was invited in to see the dog and pony show including marketing presentations and a showroom lineup with as many real vehicles and clay properties as we could get our hands on. This allowed them to see what the lineup would look like when all the products were in place. It was very impressive. Only one small problem. Ford pulled the rug out and none of them were actually produced.

 

I can imagine that Lincoln dealers are frustrated right now. Especially if they went through this a little over 10 years ago, and they are seeing delays in new products and a discombobulated reintroduction of the brand. If I'm guessing correctly, this would allow Ford to run through the showroom lineup with all of the products that are expected to hit in the next 4-5 years (properties might not be available for all of these models, but virtual images would be).

 

Just guessing.

[BORG]

I don't know what this meeting might be about, but to me it seems like "deja vu all over again."

 

The last time Ford tried a Lincoln renaissance (around 2000), the dealers were asked to make significant investments to upgrade their dealerships in return for promised new, unique products. So the Lincoln Dealer Council was invited in to see the dog and pony show including marketing presentations and a showroom lineup with as many real vehicles and clay properties as we could get our hands on. This allowed them to see what the lineup would look like when all the products were in place. It was very impressive. Only one small problem. Ford pulled the rug out and none of them were actually produced.

 

I can imagine that Lincoln dealers are frustrated right now. Especially if they went through this a little over 10 years ago, and they are seeing delays in new products and a discombobulated reintroduction of the brand. If I'm guessing correctly, this would allow Ford to run through the showroom lineup with all of the products that are expected to hit in the next 4-5 years (properties might not be available for all of these models, but virtual images would be).

 

Just guessing.

Oh I'm sure this is being done to reassure dealers and to build excitement in the brand. And products exist this time, that much is clear and the dealers love the new MKZ. I'm sure dealers are questioning Ford's competency on this (now more than before), and resent the abusive relationship Lincoln has had with the dealerships in the last 4 years, but business is business and risk is part of the game. And there is no doubt Lincoln is doing the right thing to correct its troubled MKZ launch, even if they shouldn't exist in the first place.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BORG

[NickF1011]

The Hyundai Santa Fe/Santa Fe Sport is probably a good indicator on how Ford will treat Edge and Explorer going forward, although I don't think they'll share as much as the Hyundai pair. Which also means that a new Explorer is pretty damn close to production the minute the Edge is ready.

Ford could cut Explorer production short on D3 to get it on the same development cycle as the rest of its future platform-mates. Not a cheap thing to do initially, but it should save money in the long run.

[BORG]

Ford could cut Explorer production short on D3 to get it on the same development cycle as the rest of its future platform-mates. Not a cheap thing to do initially, but it should save money in the long run.

 

Fuel economy is a strong motivator, and the Explorer is one of their biggest success stories. I'm sure they are eager to pull ahead on a successor that is also more affordable to produce (especially once the other D3s go out of production). And I'm assuming Ford wants the Flex gone by MY 2016 (with a minivan launch to follow), and a Lincoln MKT successor in place.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BORG

[rkisler]

Fuel economy is a strong motivator, and the Explorer is one of their biggest success stories. I'm sure they are eager to pull ahead on a successor that is also more affordable to produce (especially once the other D3s go out of production). And I'm assuming Ford wants the Flex gone by MY 2016 (with a minivan launch to follow), and a Lincoln MKT successor in place.

D3/D4 also presents a big plant issue.

 

I'm assuming Flex and MKT will go out of Oakville when the new Edge/MKX comes in (but this doesn't necessarily have to be the case as the present CD3s and D4 share the same body shop). If this happens, I can't imagine that there would be enough profit available to fund a move to Chicago for either Flex or MKT. Nevertheless with the platform change in Oakville soon, we can expect it will be set up in a very flexible manner with CD4 as the base.

 

Chicago is a real problem, however. Right now it's all D3/4. Chicago was built as a modular plant, the idea being subassemblies brought in from the outside and installed; minimal floorspace for inventory. There were hard limitations on the number of bodystyles also IIRC.

 

My information is very, very dated at this point, but flexing another platform into Chicago might be expensive and time consuming. Not that it won't be done at some point, but it might be a decision that could potentially be put off until the Explorer really has to be replaced, say around 2017 or so. What happens to the vestigial D3's at that point is TBD, but I think Chicago will have to be torn up to put in CD4 products; it's going to be very, very expensive and the plant will have to be down for some time IMO. It seems to me that a flexible Oakville would be instrumental in providing coverage until Chicago is sorted. But there could be some capacity constrain issues in the interim.

[theoldwizard]

Fuel economy is a strong motivator, and the Explorer is one of their biggest success stories

How can you say that !

 

IMHO, the Explorer is a disaster in the fuel economy area. The 2.0L EcoBoost engine was a year late because of "driveability" issues. Has any one seen a review of an Explorer with the 2.0L ?

 

Ford spent a huge amount of money redesigning the Explorer, knowing that fuel economy was a major issue and the pig weights only 500 pounds less that the BOF iron block V6 ! Shame on them !!

[fordmantpw]

How can you say that !

 

IMHO, the Explorer is a disaster in the fuel economy area. The 2.0L EcoBoost engine was a year late because of "driveability" issues. Has any one seen a review of an Explorer with the 2.0L ?

 

Ford spent a huge amount of money redesigning the Explorer, knowing that fuel economy was a major issue and the pig weights only 500 pounds less that the BOF iron block V6 ! Shame on them !!

 

But did the fuel economy improve over the "BOF iron block V6" and V8 models, with better performance? Ummm, I'm pretty sure it did (wasn't it 25% or something like that??). Show me a similarly capable vehicle that gets drastically better fuel economy. And the Explorer IS a huge success story, when you look at where it was 3 years ago compared to where it is today.

[NickF1011]

But did the fuel economy improve over the "BOF iron block V6" and V8 models, with better performance? Ummm, I'm pretty sure it did (wasn't it 25% or something like that??). Show me a similarly capable vehicle that gets drastically better fuel economy. And the Explorer IS a huge success story, when you look at where it was 3 years ago compared to where it is today.

Add in that it got larger in almost every dimension and I'd say still managing to lose any weight (really? 500 lbs isn't significant??) is a feat unto itself.

[silvrsvt]

How can you say that !

 

IMHO, the Explorer is a disaster in the fuel economy area. The 2.0L EcoBoost engine was a year late because of "driveability" issues. Has any one seen a review of an Explorer with the 2.0L ?

 

Ford spent a huge amount of money redesigning the Explorer, knowing that fuel economy was a major issue and the pig weights only 500 pounds less that the BOF iron block V6 ! Shame on them !!

 

 

You don't say?

 

 

a 20% or so improvement in MPG is a disaster? The I4 is another 20% or so improvement over the 3.5L V6...

 

As for the performance issues...the Ecoboost I4 puts down roughly the same performance numbers as the 4L V6 BOF Explorer did...I'd call those performance issues too high of expectations. Its not dangerous to drive like an early 1980's Chevette in Florida with 4 people and the AC on...

Edited April 9, 2013 by silvrsvt

[twintornados]

I don't know what this meeting might be about, but to me it seems like "deja vu all over again."

 

The last time Ford tried a Lincoln renaissance (around 2000), the dealers were asked to make significant investments to upgrade their dealerships in return for promised new, unique products. So the Lincoln Dealer Council was invited in to see the dog and pony show including marketing presentations and a showroom lineup with as many real vehicles and clay properties as we could get our hands on. This allowed them to see what the lineup would look like when all the products were in place. It was very impressive. Only one small problem. Ford pulled the rug out and none of them were actually produced.

 

I can imagine that Lincoln dealers are frustrated right now. Especially if they went through this a little over 10 years ago, and they are seeing delays in new products and a discombobulated reintroduction of the brand. If I'm guessing correctly, this would allow Ford to run through the showroom lineup with all of the products that are expected to hit in the next 4-5 years (properties might not be available for all of these models, but virtual images would be).

 

Just guessing.

That "last renaissance" you refer to was around the same time as the creation of PAG and we all know the disaster that turned out to be...Now that PAG is gone along with the associated marquees with it, Ford can focus on Lincoln as it always should have...