bobbyd Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I noticed that Toyota easily dominated the Darlington Southern 500 yesterday. Ford did not lead a single lap. I repeat...not one single lap ! I am not an expert on engines, nor do I enjoy watching an American tradition allowing foreign competition, however, can someone explain why NASCAR has not been Dyno-testing the top finishing makes to compare horespower like they use to do when Ford,GM or Dodge appeared to have winning advantages? It clearly appears that these Gibb's Toyotas are simply walking away from the others...especially the Ford's. 500 miles of racing without one single lap lead by Ford! Toyota already rules the Truck Series and also the Nationwide Series. Its going to soon be a hat trick! Sad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 NA$CAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 It wasn't Toyota - it was Gibbs Racing. They obviously found an advantage. Whether it was legal or not remains to be seen. You can bet that Kenseth's engine will be torn down and checked and maybe the other two as well after their previous transgressions. The dyno won't tell you anything because it could be perfectly legal. Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with Toyota or Ford Motor Company. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 It wasn't Toyota - it was Gibbs Racing. They obviously found an advantage. Whether it was legal or not remains to be seen. You can bet that Kenseth's engine will be torn down and checked and maybe the other two as well after their previous transgressions. The dyno won't tell you anything because it could be perfectly legal. Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with Toyota or Ford Motor Company. My understanding is the mandatory engine inspection has nothing to do with the Dyno test. (Remember Gibb's caught cheating on the DYNO in the Nationwide race). As an old-school NASCAR fan, before France JR allowed Toyota to enter NASCAR, they often 'dyno-tested' the top Ford/GM/Dodge finishers when it appeared one make was more dominant/consistently! R. Pemberton was quoted as admitting the Toyota had up to a 30 HP advantage but was not dominating races last season. This season Toyota is winning the Truck/Nationwide series and now the Sprint series. Still, not one reported or scheduled Dyno-test ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 My understanding is the mandatory engine inspection has nothing to do with the Dyno test. (Remember Gibb's caught cheating on the DYNO in the Nationwide race). As an old-school NASCAR fan, before France JR allowed Toyota to enter NASCAR, they often 'dyno-tested' the top Ford/GM/Dodge finishers when it appeared one make was more dominant/consistently! R. Pemberton was quoted as admitting the Toyota had up to a 30 HP advantage but was not dominating races last season. This season Toyota is winning the Truck/Nationwide series and now the Sprint series. Still, not one reported or scheduled Dyno-test ! Dyno testing only shows the difference between vehicles. It doesn't show you whether they are cheating to achieve that or not. NASCAR used that to determine rule changes to keep a level playing field. The only way to see if someone is cheating is to tear down the engine and inspect it along with the rest of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) National Association of Something that has stickers to make it look a little like a stock (from a distance in the rain at night) Car Racing Lost interest many years ago. Edited May 12, 2013 by F250 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Dyno testing only shows the difference between vehicles. It doesn't show you whether they are cheating to achieve that or not. NASCAR used that to determine rule changes to keep a level playing field. The only way to see if someone is cheating is to tear down the engine and inspect it along with the rest of the car. Let me explain about the cheating to resolve the confusion. Gibb's team placed magnets behind the pedal to prevent full power to the engine during the test. The mandatory engine tear down is after each race BUT does not reflect, in any way, the results that Dyno Testing shows! The purpose of Dyno Testing is NOT to show cheating, unlike an engine tear down, but instead to shows 3 main results...Engine RPM, Engine Torque, Engine HP! This easily determines an accurate comparison between vehicles that a tear down cannot! Its not intended to show cheating but rather intended to keep a level playing field! As I mentioned before, if you check NASCAR history, prior to Toyota, Dyno testing was often performed to keep a level playing field. (eg..remember how Ford dominated Daytona/Talladega with Bill Elliott and Davey Allison?) What did NASCAR do..Dyno Test performed to show the long stroke Fords were dominant. Result:...Restrictor plates installed and the addition of the extended roof on the Monte Carlo for better aerodynamics...wow, that was ugly). I know Roush probably doesn't want to appear a whiner and demand a Dyno test, since in the past he has been ridiculed for comments about the competition (recall M. Waltrips truck team stealing a Roush control arm to test on their own). Since Roush was winning with Edwards in the Truck series, everyone ridiculed Jack! In closing, what would it hurt to Dyno test the 3 makes, especially to keep things fair and balanced! The strange thing is that NASCAR, under Bill France JR , chooses not to, despite Toyota winning more races than any other maker. No argument, just my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Let me explain about the cheating to resolve the confusion. Gibb's team placed magnets behind the pedal to prevent full power to the engine during the test. The mandatory engine tear down is after each race BUT does not reflect, in any way, the results that Dyno Testing shows! The purpose of Dyno Testing is NOT to show cheating, unlike an engine tear down, but instead to shows 3 main results...Engine RPM, Engine Torque, Engine HP!This easily determines an accurate comparison between vehicles that a tear down cannot! Its not intended to show cheating but rather intended to keep a level playing field! As I mentioned before, if you check NASCAR history, prior to Toyota, Dyno testing was often performed to keep a level playing field. (eg..remember how Ford dominated Daytona/Talladega with Bill Elliott and Davey Allison?) What did NASCAR do..Dyno Test performed to show the long stroke Fords were dominant. Result:...Restrictor plates installed and the addition of the extended roof on the Monte Carlo for better aerodynamics...wow, that was ugly). I know Roush probably doesn't want to appear a whiner and demand a Dyno test, since in the past he has been ridiculed for comments about the competition (recall M. Waltrips truck team stealing a Roush control arm to test on their own). Since Roush was winning with Edwards in the Truck series, everyone ridiculed Jack! In closing, what would it hurt to Dyno test the 3 makes, especially to keep things fair and balanced! The strange thing is that NASCAR, under Bill France JR , chooses not to, despite Toyota winning more races than any other maker. No argument, just my opinion! I understand exactly what Dyno testing is for - it's to ensure a level playing field between the makes. IMO it totally flies in the face of fair racing. If one team finds an advantage legally then they change the rules to keep it fair. That's not racing - it's entertainment. So I don't give a rats behind about dyno testing. Isn't the goal of racing to improve your vehicle within the rules so you're better than everyone else? If you do that in NASCAR they change the rules. That's not racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScapeTom Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I really wish they'd get back to racing something that at least remotely resembles a factory-made product of the same brand. Yes, I understand the need for safety features, but at least they could use stock engines and drive trains as their base, along with suspension geometry and such. No, I don't expect them to be out there running 1.6L ecoboost engines (unless there's an engine size limit of 1.6L), but it would be nice to see the 5.4L or the new 5.0L block out there. Are any of the NASCAR engines actually based on present production engines? Racing used to be full of innovation, but now, it's become more of a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bifs66 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 "Ford did not lead a single lap. I repeat...not one single lap" ....... Chances are the Fords would not have led a lap of that race regardless of Toyota's participation. I've been rooting for Ford victories in all forms of motorsports since the early sixties; however, if Toyota's engineers/teams can build a more powerful 358 cu in pushrod engine and a better chassis under the regulations, then they should reap the rewards. I thought the basic idea was to build a better racecar and win races....not have NASCAR bring everyone down to the weakest team. IMO, there should be no need to "dyno" anyone's engines....just set the basic specs and let innovation produce the most HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 "Ford did not lead a single lap. I repeat...not one single lap" ....... Chances are the Fords would not have led a lap of that race regardless of Toyota's participation. I've been rooting for Ford victories in all forms of motorsports since the early sixties; however, if Toyota's engineers/teams can build a more powerful 358 cu in pushrod engine and a better chassis under the regulations, then they should reap the rewards. The good news is that Ford will do something about it: either rectify the problem, or, as I think they should, pull out of NA$CAR, and maybe spend the money on world-wide competition efforts with the next Mustang, which will be for sale around the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 In more interesting news. I seen snow flakes today! Its MAY! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I noticed that Toyota easily dominated the Darlington Southern 500 yesterday. Ford did not lead a single lap. I repeat...not one single lap ! I am not an expert on engines, nor do I enjoy watching an American tradition allowing foreign competition, however, can someone explain why NASCAR has not been Dyno-testing the top finishing makes to compare horespower like they use to do when Ford,GM or Dodge appeared to have winning advantages? It clearly appears that these Gibb's Toyotas are simply walking away from the others...especially the Ford's. 500 miles of racing without one single lap lead by Ford! Toyota already rules the Truck Series and also the Nationwide Series. Its going to soon be a hat trick! Sad! Ford swept the previous race at Talladega, finishing 1,2,3. I did not see the topic about how Ford is dominating? Ford has 3 cars in the top 10 in standings, Toyota has 3. Where is the statistical proof of Toyota domination? I admit, losing Kenseth was a big mistake for Roush and Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 The good news is that Ford will do something about it: either rectify the problem, or, as I think they should, pull out of NA$CAR, and maybe spend the money on world-wide competition efforts with the next Mustang, which will be for sale around the world. probably Revo-knuckle to curb the incessant Torque steer that a FWD V8 generates..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 probably Revo-knuckle to curb the incessant Torque steer that a FWD V8 generates..... Well, they could put the Roush gang to work developing the next Mustang for the German Super Touring races against M-B, Audi and BMW, seeing as the car will be sold in Germany. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I'm sure that this will send Camry and Avalon sales through the roof, given that they are identical to the Toyota racer in...having four wheels and a engine up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I wish Jeff Gordon didn't SUCK so bad lately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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