Your Opinion Of Zimerman Now?

[Langston Hughes]

Except, of course, that even this scenario supports Zimmerman's version of the events, and also supports the acquittal. The simple fact is that if Martin was successfully hiding in the bushes, and Zimmerman later "walks into him," that fact, in and of itself, does not give Martin the right to assault him, or beat him up. And if Martin threw the first puch, it's game over for Martin...

 

As for the civil case - yes, it will be interesting. Lots of juicy information will undoubtedly be aired, including the fact that Martin was in the neighorhood in the first place because the Miami-Dade School Police Department was engaged in a widespread cover-up to make its official crime statistics look better. When Martin was found with stolen goods, the school officials quietly suspended him instead of reporting his crime: http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-crime-school-miami

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

In October 2011, after a video surveillance camera caught Martin writing graffiti on a door, MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched Martin’s backpack, looking for the marker he had used. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women’s jewelry and a man’s watch, along with a flathead screwdriver the officer described as a “burglary tool.”The jewelry and watch, which Martin claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name, matched a description of items stolen during the October 2011 burglary of a house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school. However, because of Chief Hurley’s policy “to lower the arrest rates,” as one MDSPD sergeant said in an internal investigation, the stolen jewerly was instead listed as“found property” and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were investigating the burglary. Similarly, in February 2012 when an MDSPD officer caught Martin with a small plastic bag containing marijuana residue, as well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and instead Martin was suspended from school.

 

If Martin's family is smart, and wants to preserve any remnant of the "St. Trayvon" image, they'll settle and keep quiet.

 

No, it doesn't. Martin has a right to defend himself if he feels threatened under stand your ground laws does he not. Or more accurately to be placed on trial and judged whether he was actually in danger. However he won't ever get that opportunity because he's dead. It's easy for you to hinge it on whether or not he threw the first punch but that isn't actually a requirement of a self-defense verdict like Zimmermans. People have been exonerated when they were the first to act, because they were in fear of their lives.

 

The question is whether Martin could safely assume that this strange guy who was following him was not intending to do him harm. He could just have been a punk who beat the shit outta Zimmerman because his day sucked, but that's not what he told Jeantel, nor do we have any proof. We have the word of man who shot the kid and doesn't want to go to jail. We know that he admitted that in two instances he did not tell him that he was with neighborhood watch which might have made a difference. I'm surprised that you would trust that so easily.

 

As for his criminal activity, Martins had no bearing on the trial as he wasn't committing a crime at the time when the incident occurred and he wasn't on trial. It's a shame that conservatives wanted to put someone who wasn't committing a crime on trial after his death as if Zimmerman had any clue of Martin's past.

 

And as bad as stealing is, it's a little short of being so violent that you commit battery against a police officer.

[Langston Hughes]

No you're not, you're assuming that Zimmerman is a racist killer. I'm not. And you misused the word your, . . . . again.

 

Shove it up your a$$! :happy feet:

[BlackHorse]

Shove it up your a$$! :happy feet:

 

They typical reply when you have been proven wrong and cannot reply with an intelligent response. This shows everyone your true nature and lack of class Langston. Not that there was any doubt on the matter.

Edited July 19, 2013 by BlackHorse

[Langston Hughes]

Zimmerman is not in any way obligated to tell Martin that he is part of the neighborhood watch and in point of fact he was not acting in that capacity on the night that the shooting took place.

 

Why is he hiding in the bushes? Furthermore if you are George Zimmerman and you have already called the police because you see someone suspicious in the area and then that person ducks off an hides in the bushes don't you think that would only further convince Zimmerman that Trayvon was up to something? People that are just walking around drinking iced tea typically don't hide in the bushes. If Martin is so scared of Zimmerman that he feels compelled to hide in the shrubbery then why doesn't he call the police to help him? Instead he attacks Zimmerman and tells him "you're going to die to tonight." Sorry but your version of the events just doesn't add up.

 

And that proves what? Nothing other than the fact that Martin had a pretty good hiding spot.

 

Your correct that Zimmerman legally did not have to offer to Martin that he wasn't some crazy stalker, or creepy ass cracker who might have intended him harm. It's wise to do so because then Martin would have no defense (if he lived) to the altercation if he had thrown the first punch, which we do not know.

 

Zimmerman did not see him hide in the bushes. Stop adding shit that doesn't exist into the equation.

 

It proves that Zimmerman caused the confrontation. Had he returned to his car right away then there would not be dead kid.

[grbeck]

No, it doesn't. Martin has a right to defend himself if he feels threatened under stand your ground laws does he not. Or more accurately to be placed on trial and judged whether he was actually in danger. However he won't ever get that opportunity because he's dead. It's easy for you to hinge it on whether or not he threw the first punch but that isn't actually a requirement of a self-defense verdict like Zimmermans. People have been exonerated when they were the first to act, because they were in fear of their lives.

 

The question is whether Martin could safely assume that this strange guy who was following him was not intending to do him harm. He could just have been a punk who beat the shit outta Zimmerman because his day sucked, but that's not what he told Jeantel, nor do we have any proof. We have the word of man who shot the kid and doesn't want to go to jail. We know that he admitted that in two instances he did not tell him that he was with neighborhood watch which might have made a difference. I'm surprised that you would trust that so easily.

 

As for his criminal activity, Martins had no bearing on the trial as he wasn't committing a crime at the time when the incident occurred and he wasn't on trial. It's a shame that conservatives wanted to put someone who wasn't committing a crime on trial after his death as if Zimmerman had any clue of Martin's past.

 

And as bad as stealing is, it's a little short of being so violent that you commit battery against a police officer.

 

You need proof that Martin was actually threatened by Zimmerman. The scenarios you put forth keep undermining your case. For example, if Martin had concealed himself successfully, but then still jumped Zimmerman, he is the aggressor.

 

It's also not enough for the person to "feel threatened" in order to successfully invoke the right to self-defense. There has to be a reasonable belief that the other person is going to actually harm you, based on the fact that there is a real possibility that this could happen.

Edited July 19, 2013 by grbeck

[Langston Hughes]

They typical reply when you have been proven wrong and cannot reply with an intelligent response. This shows everyone your true nature and lack of class Langston. Not that there was any doubt on the matter.

 

I'm not classy. There you have it.

[BlackHorse]

Your correct that Zimmerman legally did not have to offer to Martin that he wasn't some crazy stalker, or creepy ass cracker who might have intended him harm. It's wise to do so because then Martin would have no defense (if he lived) to the altercation if he had thrown the first punch, which we do not know.

 

Zimmerman did not see him hide in the bushes. Stop adding shit that doesn't exist into the equation.

 

It proves that Zimmerman caused the confrontation. Had he returned to his car right away then there would not be dead kid.

 

 

Crazy stalker? Creepy ass cracker? Oh my goodness look who is showing his racial bias and tendency to paint Zimmerman as the bad guy again. I'm sorry where is the evidence that Zimmerman is a "crazy stalker" and why do you think that it's okay to hurl racial insults at the man? Both of these men did things that were unwise that night. It still does not justify Travyon Martin attacking George Zimmerman and telling him "you're going to die tonight" does it? You're just bitter because Zimmerman was found not guilty and you so wanted him to be locked up for being a white racist killer didn't you?

 

And you misused the word your, . . . . again.

Edited July 19, 2013 by BlackHorse

[Langston Hughes]

You need proof that Martin was actually threatened by Zimmerman. The scenarios you put forth keep undermining your case. For example, if Martin had concealed himself successfully, but then still jumped Zimmerman, he is the aggressor.

 

It's also not enough for the person to "feel threatened" in order to successfully invoke the right to self-defense. There has to be a reasonable belief that the other person is going to actually harm you, based on the fact that there is a real possibility that this could happen.

 

We don't have proof that Zimmerman was actually threatened. We have the assumption of such based on his wounds and his testimony. We will never know who started the fight so there can be no proof of that sort for Zimmerman. So we have to give Martin the same level of acceptance don't we? Zimmerman could have grabbed him. It's not out of character for a guy who was arrested for resisting arrest and battery on a police officer is it.

 

The problem as i see it is you and others automatically see Martin as a criminal, while you don't see Zimmerman the same even though he had committed violent crimes before. You have one level of trust for Zimmerman and another for Martin. I think that plays to what the president said today.

 

And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent —

 

We've seen that here in this thread a lot.

[BlackHorse]

 

 

We've seen that here in this thread a lot.

 

 

Yes we have. I don't know why you insist on painting all white conservatives with a broad brush but you do.

[Langston Hughes]

Crazy stalker? Creepy ass cracker? Oh my goodness look who is showing his racial bias and tendency to paint Zimmerman as the bad guy again. I'm sorry where is the evidence that Zimmerman is a "crazy stalker" and why do you think that it's okay to hurl racial insults at the man? Both of these men did things that were unwise that night. It still does not justify Travyon Martin attacking George Zimmerman and telling him "you're going to die tonight" does it? You're just bitter because Zimmerman was found not guilty and you so wanted him to be locked up for being a white racist killer didn't you?

 

And you misused the word your, . . . . again.

 

Trayvon Martin told Rachel Jeantel that some "Creepy Ass Cracker was following him"

 

She testified to that in court. I was using it to illustrate what Martin felt. He felt he was being followed by some creep who was white, thus the slur.

 

Here's one of the investigators talking to Zimmerman

"He can see you're following him... instead of having conversation with him, you put up your window?" Singleton asked.

"Yes ma'am," said Zimmerman.

She explains how that might have seemed creepy to Martin.

 

As far as justifying what Zimmerman's statements are, there's no proof that he said that. You just automatically believe the guy who's scared he might go to jail. That's funny shit!

 

Your so enthralled with calling me a racist that you can't even think straight. It's fucking hilarious.

 

I just thought of something.

 

You said your Hispanic and here you are buying everything that Zimmerman says like it's the gospel. Might you be a homer? It's really that simple isn't it? You are going with your own and are mad that I don't believe the Hispanic person over the African American. the whole time you called me a racist it was you projecting. I wondered why you attacked me so hard on this. It all makes sense now.

[BlackHorse]

The problem as i see it is you and others automatically see Martin as a criminal, while you don't see Zimmerman the same even though he had committed violent crimes before. You have one level of trust for Zimmerman and another for Martin. I think that plays to what the president said today.

 

Wrong. That is what you assume because it suits your racially bias point of view. Personally I don't think Trayvon Martin was doing a thing wrong that night. I think he was just bored and he probably walked down to the corner store to get a snack. Now in point of fact Trayvon Martin was in Sanford because he was on suspension from school for the second time in six months and the reason he was on suspension was for theft. But that doesn't mean that he was up to something that night and in fact, as I just posted, I think he was just bored and he was out getting a snack. He wasn't doing a thing wrong. I also understand why Zimmerman would think that he was. There had been burglaries in that neighborhood and they had been committed by young black men, or so we are told. So yes, Zimmerman made some assumptions based on recent past events in the area and that is why he called the police and yes part of that assumption was clearly based on the fact that Trayvon was black. Some people are going to call that racial profiling. Maybe it was or maybe Zimmerman was just basing it on the burglaries that had already occurred. But ultimately what this comes down to is that Travyon made the unwise decision to assault George Zimmerman. If he had just kept on walking back to his house none of this would have happened. Even if George Zimmerman had followed him all the way home, so what. The end result was he would have walked through the front door of the house he was staying at and Zimmerman would have realized that Travyon wasn't up to anything nafarious. But he didn't do that and the whole thing ended in tragedy. He made a terrible mistake as young men are prone to do. Travyon Martin did not deserve to die, that much is certain. But by the same token, George Zimmerman did not deserve to be attacked and have his life threatened either. There is no winner here Langston. It's an all around tragedy.

 

 

 

Also I just want to add that I think it's entirely possible that Zimmerman may have felt emboldened by the fact that he was carrying a weapon. This comes back to young men who make poor judgement calls. I know there are plenty of young men who feel like they can handle whatever so long as they have that gun on them. I think its possible that if Zimmerman didn't have that pistol that maybe he doesn't get out of his car and try to find out where Trayvon went. So as I said, both of these young men made poor decisions. Ultimately, however, Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry a pistol and Trayvon unfortunately tried to handle things his way instead of just leaving it alone and going home. The end result was a tragedy that should never have happened, but it did.

Edited July 20, 2013 by BlackHorse

[Langston Hughes]

 

Wrong. That is what you assume because it suits your racially bias point of view. Personally I don't think Trayvon Martin was doing a thing wrong that night. I think he was just bored and he probably walked down to the corner store to get a snack. Now in point of fact Trayvon Martin was in Sanford because he was on suspension from school for the second time in six months and the reason he was on suspension was for theft. But that doesn't mean that he was up to something that night and in fact, as I just posted, I think he was just bored and he was out getting a snack. He wasn't doing a thing wrong. I also understand why Zimmerman would think that he was. There had been burglaries in that neighborhood and they had been committed by young black men, or so we are told. So yes, Zimmerman made some assumptions based on recent past events in the area and that is why he called the police and yes part of that assumption was clearly based on the fact that Trayvon was black. Some people are going to call that racial profiling. Maybe it was or maybe Zimmerman was just basing it on the burglaries that had already occurred. But ultimately what this comes down to is that Travyon made the unwise decision to assault George Zimmerman. If he had just kept on walking back to his house none of this would have happened. Even if George Zimmerman had followed him all the way home, so what. The end result was he would have walked through the front door of the house he was staying at and Zimmerman would have realized that Travyon wasn't up to anything nafarious. But he didn't do that and the whole thing ended in tragedy. He made a terrible mistake as young men are prone to do. Travyon Martin did not deserve to die, that much is certain. But by the same token, George Zimmerman did not deserve to be attacked and have his life threatened either. There is no winner here Langston. It's an all around tragedy.

 

 

 

Also I just want to add that I think it's entirely possible that Zimmerman may have felt emboldened by the fact that he was carrying a weapon. This comes back to young men who make poor judgement calls. I know there are plenty of young men who feel like they can handle whatever so long as they have that gun on them. I think its possible that if Zimmerman didn't have that pistol that maybe he doesn't get out of his car and try to find out where Trayvon went. So as I said, both of these young men made poor decisions. Ultimately, however, Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry a pistol and Trayvon unfortunately tried to handle things his way instead of just leaving it alone and going home. The end result was a tragedy that should never have happened, but it did.

 

Again you believe everything the Hispanic guy says. There's no proof that Martin assaulted Zimmerman, only that Zman was getting his ass kicked and shot the guy. For some reason you believe a guy trying to keep his ass out of jail without reservation. I doubt if he where black that you'd give him the home cooking.

 

Come on son, you buy everything George says like he's your brother. You haven't even expressed any doubt in anything he said. You sound like Robert Jr.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Langston Hughes

[BlackHorse]

Again you believe everything the Hispanic guy says. There's no proof that Martin assaulted Zimmerman, only that Zman was getting his ass kicked and shot the guy. For some reason you believe a guy trying to keep his ass out of jail without reservation. I doubt if he where black that you'd give him the home cooking.

 

Come on son, you buy everything George says like he's your brother. You haven't even expressed any doubt in anything he said. You sound like Robert Jr.

 

 

What I believe is this

 

1. There is a witness that testified that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and throwing punches down on him. I'm not going by what Zimmerman says, I'm going by what was testified to in court and what evidence was presented in court. Regardless of whether or not you believe that, i don't care.

 

2. There is proof that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. You had a witness testify to it and Zimmerman had sustained injuries as a result that were clearly visible. Just because you don't want to believe that doesn't make it so.

[Langston Hughes]

What I believe is this

 

1. There is a witness that testified that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and throwing punches down on him. I'm not going by what Zimmerman says, I'm going by what was testified to in court and what evidence was presented in court. Regardless of whether or not you believe that, i don't care.

 

2. There is proof that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. You had a witness testify to it and Zimmerman had sustained injuries as a result that were clearly visible. Just because you don't want to believe that doesn't make it so.

 

Neither of which is proof of Martin assaulting Zimmerman. it's proof that there was an altercation and that Trayvon was winning but it doesn't show who started it. I'm sorry but your giving Zimmerman the home team discount.

 

The reason Zimmerman walked free is that there is no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt of who started the altercation.

[BlackHorse]

Neither of which is proof of Martin assaulting Zimmerman. it's proof that there was an altercation and that Trayvon was winning but it doesn't show who started it. I'm sorry but your giving Zimmerman the home team discount.

 

The reason Zimmerman walked free is that there is no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt of who started the altercation.

 

Bullshit. Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing punches down on him and that is proof that he was in fact assaulting Zimmerman. You can live in your little bullshit pretend world where that didn't happen but it did.

[fmccap]

Makes some sense.

[Ron W.]

I'm tired of all the racial bullshit, there was a picture on facebook that said only in Obamas America can a brown guy kill a black guy and the white guys are to blame.

Obama on an article on MSN.com that I saw today says this could have been me, Obama in my opinion has set race relations back further than Jessie Jackson and Sharpton could in another decade.

Who gives a shit whos got the better tan, judge by actions not appearance

[Bored of Pisteon]

I'm not classy. There you have it.

[Langston Hughes]

Bullshit. Martin was on top of Zimmerman and throwing punches down on him and that is proof that he was in fact assaulting Zimmerman. You can live in your little bullshit pretend world where that didn't happen but it did.

 

Pretend what didn't happen? There was a fight. We can't prove or disprove who did what and you seem to think that losing a fight is some sort of legal indicator of who is guilty. You need to stop giving Zimmerman the home team advantage, there's no proof of how the fight started.

[Langston Hughes]

I'm not classy. There you have it.

 

I'm not OCD and I'm also not quirky or unique

[Langston Hughes]

I'm tired of all the racial bullshit, there was a picture on facebook that said only in Obamas America can a brown guy kill a black guy and the white guys are to blame.

Obama on an article on MSN.com that I saw today says this could have been me, Obama in my opinion has set race relations back further than Jessie Jackson and Sharpton could in another decade.

Who gives a shit whos got the better tan, judge by actions not appearance

 

Perhaps you could actually read the statement, it's in the other thread.

[Langston Hughes]

So Black Horse, I have to ask since i'm the only one you seem to think is prejudice, what do you make of this.

 

I know it makes you feel nice inside that you think everyone is equal, but the fact is, we’re not. The problem is not with the people who aren’t afraid to say it, but with those who are too afraid to admit it. Those always seem to be the low I.Q. ones; like Langston.

 

Am I casting that broad of a brush when your fellow conservatives here openly talk about how certain races aren't equal?

[grbeck]

Regarding Zimmerman's calls about the young African-American boys at the complex, it turns out that, once again, all of the facts show that he is anything but racist.

 

Here is the POLICE RECORDS of the notes regarding those actual calls. These records include why Zimmerman called the police in the first place:

 

4/22/11: Black male 7-9 years old walking alone unsupervised on busy street; GZ “concerned for well being” (emphasis added)

 

1/29/12: Five or six kids, ages 4-11 years, running and playing in the street and running out in front of cars. (emphasis added)

 

So, yes, Zimmerman did call the police on young African-American children because he was...concerned about their safety. Which further demolishes the already shaky contention that Zimmerman had any animosity towards African-Americans. (Of course, several FBI agents dispatched to Florida at the direct order of the White House to investigate whether Zimmerman had any racist leanings couldn't find any, but we prefer to ignore that.)

Edited July 21, 2013 by grbeck

[Langston Hughes]

Regarding Zimmerman's calls about the young African-American boys at the complex, it turns out that, once again, all of the facts show that he is anything but racist.

 

Here is the POLICE RECORDS of the notes regarding those actual calls. These records include why Zimmerman called the police in the first place:

 

4/22/11: Black male 7-9 years old walking alone unsupervised on busy street; GZ “concerned for well being” (emphasis added)

 

1/29/12: Five or six kids, ages 4-11 years, running and playing in the street and running out in front of cars. (emphasis added)

 

So, yes, Zimmerman did call the police on young African-American children because he was...concerned about their safety. Which further demolishes the already shaky contention that Zimmerman had any animosity towards African-Americans. (Of course, several FBI agents dispatched to Florida at the direct order of the White House to investigate whether Zimmerman had any racist leanings couldn't find any, but we prefer to ignore that.)

 

I stand corrected. Thank you for finding that.

[xr7g428]

Langston, Obama made a great speech. He did a great job of presenting the perspective of some black people as they view what happened in Florida. The sad part is that it also revealed that Obama sees skin color as being sort of a compensating factor: black males deserve some additional consideration that would not apply to members of other races. He believes that it was skin color and not behavior that was the deciding factor from the beginning all the way through the acquittal. In court, it is behavior that gets judged, not skin color, not historical perspective, not emotional baggage. Had anyone else behaved exactly as Trayvon did, the results would have been the same. It's the old adage: the only way to never lose a bar fight is to stay out of the bars.