chevys Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/ram-prices-diesel-1500-27050-adds-tech-across-line Should be interesting to see how it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Only a few hundred more than going from a 3.7 to a 3.5EB. Ram might have a winner, depending on fuel mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Not too bad at all...much better than I was expecting. Can't wait to see how it does, both in fuel economy and the marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 On other forums, I get the feeling that a lot of the vocal support for a Ram 1500 diesel seem s to be coming from people who advocate diesels in general but not necessarily form people ready to buy one..That makes me wonder about the depth of them market and whether it's something that develops once the product is available or whether Ram is a victim of "empty vessel" internet noise... I still think that a smaller capacity Ecoboost in a lighter F150 has to be a better plan, a more efficient gasoline engined truck must surely get the attention of the bulk of the segment ahead of a diesel option. In any case, we'll soon see just how well a diesel truck sells in the 1500 market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 27,345 is the cheapest F150 you can buy with the EB engine just for comparison sakes and that is a 2013 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) That makes me wonder about the depth of them market and whether it's something that develops once the product is available or whether Ram is a victim of "empty vessel" internet noise... The market for diesel powered passenger cars and light trucks is a minor one in the U.S., but it's growing rapidly. Between 2010 and 2012, the rate of increase of diesel car & light truck registrations far outpaced the growth in light vehicles overall during that period, as described in this Forbes article. Diesel engines like the VM Motori A630 and Ford's 3.2L Duratorq are ideally suited to LD pickup trucks, with their combination of low-end torque, durability, and fuel economy. The maturation of emissions control technologies such as SCR should bolster the growth of diesel powertrains that meet upcoming standards in the U.S. and EU alike. Edited July 1, 2013 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) 27,345 is the cheapest F150 you can buy with the EB engine just for comparison sakes and that is a 2013 model. What I'm thinking is a smaller Ecoboost that actually replaces the 3.7 or at least offers more bottom end torque. Something like a 2.7 V6 Ecoboost that produces around 320 hp and 320 lb ft. with better economy that the 3.7 The difference is that most F 150s sold are either super cab or Crew cab, usually in higher series trims, normally at prices well above the entry level trucks we're discussing here which are entry level regular cabs, FYI, regular cabs make up at best 5-6% of all F Truck sales....(Doug Scott - Ford Truck Group Marketing Manager) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be little the Ram 1500 diesel, I just don't see the same group of Ford and GM truck buyers being that insistent on a diesel especially if gasoline fuel economy has been or will be much improved...... Edited June 30, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLaudioF150 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) I'd line up to buy one. Earlier this year I purchased a new Mercedes ML-350 Bluetec (AWD, 240-hp, 455-ft-lbs V-6 Diesel) and my wife and I love it! She averages around 23-24 mostly city, but we easily get 31-32 highway driving 70-80mph. If we keep it at speed limit, 65-70 we average 33-35mpg. Strangely, it's rated 20/27 and I've never acheived those numbers-ever. Anyway, that's my experience with mine so far. Interestingly, the day I bought it and was waiting for them to prepare and clean the car for me, I saw in newspaper article about Americans Warming up to Diesels. It had the Ram pictured and mentioned the Chevy (Cruz is it?). Hey, at least they're offering the option now! Edited July 1, 2013 by JLaudioF150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The RAM "EcoDiesel" is rated at 240 horsepower at 3,600 rpm and 420 pounds-feet of torque at 2,000 rpm. What's the chances of the 3.2L PowerStroke meeting or beating these numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Between 2010 and 2012, the rate of increase of diesel car & light truck registrations far outpaced the growth in light vehicles overall during that period, as described in this Forbes article. Given the compared market shares of diesel vs gas engines in the U.S., an increase in growth rate really doesn't mean much. Like the article says, they are still only a tiny fraction of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 On other forums, I get the feeling that a lot of the vocal support for a Ram 1500 diesel seem s to be coming from peoplewho advocate diesels in general but not necessarily from people ready to buy one.That makes me wonder about the depth of them market and whether it's something that develops once the product is available or whether Ram is a victim of "empty vessel" internet noise... I still think that a smaller capacity Ecoboost in a lighter F150 has to be a better plan, a more efficient gasoline engined truck must surely get the attention of the bulk of the segment ahead of a diesel option. In any case, we'll soon see just how well a diesel truck sells in the 1500 market. I'm noticing a lot of that in the comments on pickuptrucks.com Pro diesel people who hate full-size/half-ton trucks are coming out in support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The article mentions "selective catalytic reduction". In an industrial setting, this usually means urea/ammonia injection. I'm assuming this motor will require diesel exhaust fluid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) I'm noticing a lot of that in the comments on pickuptrucks.comPro diesel people who hate full-size/half-ton trucks are coming out in support. Support yes but will that convert into buyer approval and many actual sales, that's the big question Edited July 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 The article mentions "selective catalytic reduction". In an industrial setting, this usually means urea/ammonia injection. I'm assuming this motor will require diesel exhaust fluid? Yep, same as the rest of the diesel pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Support yes but will that convert into buyer No because they hate full-sizes and/or half-tons. I have not seen one comment in support of it from a legimate buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) I just don't see the same group of Ford and GM truck buyers being that insistent on a diesel especially if gasoline fuel economy has been or will be much improved...... Disagree. I frequent many F-Series and full-size truck sites in general, and while it may not be the main topic every day, it is a consistent topic and desire from 1/2 ton owners of nearly all makes/models. Like the article says, they are still only a tiny fraction of the market. In the car market you are correct. In the full-size truck market, of course 3/4-1 ton, they are actually the preferred option and typically sell at a higher rate than their gas counterpart when you exclude fleet and look at personal vehicle sales. Support yes but will that convert into buyer approval and many actual sales, that's the big question People started buying the EB in the F150, that should be proof enough. For the price, which appears to be similar to that of an EB F150, I cannot see why this wouldn't translate into sales. Many 1/2 ton owners have been clamoring for a mini-diesel for years now. The EB was the first step in that direction IMO. Edited July 3, 2013 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) No because they hate full-sizes and/or half-tons. I have not seen one comment in support of it from a legimate buyer. Not in the market, but can tell you if Ford offered a mini-diesel and the EB in the F150, I'd opt for the diesel. And hard to have a legit buyer when the product isn't even available. Edited July 3, 2013 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 What I'm curious about here: the Dodge 1500 still has rear coils and the lowest payload & towing in the class, right? So, if one assumes that the big advantage of diesel over gas is under load, then isn't Dodge exactly the wrong truck to pioneer the diesel segment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 It's pretty much useless when you factor in the the more expensive fuel/maintence, the almost $3000 over the Hemi, and the low payloads (1000 lbs in the last PUTC shootout). At the end of the day you may save around $150 a year so that divided by $2850. means 19 years to break even. It's not saving you anything and as Richard stated you're not hauling more with the coils. For resale, the best resale diesel is the Ford F-350 at 48.5% of original cost. The F-150 which doesn't have a diesel has a resale of 48.6%. So the resale is a wash and you're just spending more on the diesel to begin with. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/04/which-pickups-hold-their-value-best/comments/page/2/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 What I'm curious about here: the Dodge 1500 still has rear coils and the lowest payload & towing in the class, right? So, if one assumes that the big advantage of diesel over gas is under load, then isn't Dodge exactly the wrong truck to pioneer the diesel segment? Look for GM and Ford to pick up more HD buyers as Ram goes to rear coils on the 3/4 tons. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2014-ram-25003500-hd-first-look.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Not in the market, but can tell you if Ford offered a mini-diesel and the EB in the F150, I'd opt for the diesel. And hard to have a legit buyer when the product isn't even available. Ecoboost 35 V6 effectively replaces the need for a 6.2 V8 whilst giving a winning 23 mpg as opposed to 18 mpg What if Ford offered a mini EB that gave same towing rates as the 5.0 V8 but with 20% better economy... so imagine a baby EB V6 that gives something like 25 mpg as opposed to 21 mpg for the 5.0 V8. That way, Ford would reach a lot more F150 customers and avoids that diesel premium.. Edited July 4, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Ecoboost 35 V6 effectively replaces the need for a 6.2 V8 whilst giving a winning 23 mpg as opposed to 18 mpg What if Ford offered a mini EB that gave same towing rates as the 5.0 V8 but with 20% better economy... so imagine a baby EB V6 that gives something like 25 mpg as opposed to 21 mpg for the 5.0 V8. That way, Ford would reach a lot more F150 customers and avoids that diesel premium.. An issue that has been recounted here on Blue Oval Forums is that the "winning 23 mpg" in 3.5L Ecoboost F-150 is extremely difficult to achieve in the real world - almost impossible if the vehicle is operated in a manner that would be considered "truck like." Of course, real world fuel economy of the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel remains to be seen. If other passenger car and light truck diesels are any indication, the diesel powered Ram should attain notably superior real world fuel economy to either its HEMI counterpart or to the 3.5L Ecoboost equipped F-150. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 2014 GM 5.3 4x4 23.1 mpg 2013 F-150 EB 4x4 22.3 mpg http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-mileage-drive.html Thousands less than a diesel, use cheaper fuel, no extra cost of def, and cheaper maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) An issue that has been recounted here on Blue Oval Forums is that the "winning 23 mpg" in 3.5L Ecoboost F-150 is extremely difficult to achieve in the real world - almost impossible if the vehicle is operated in a manner that would be considered "truck like. Maybe so but there's no way in hell that a 6.2 V8 will ever get there nor will a heavily loaded GM or Chrysler V8 wit AFM The point is that most F150s sold are either super cabs or crew cabs and given the product mix is mostly higher series trucks it's doubtful that they will be subjected to constant loading like that. Also, achieving 23 mpg on test cycles compared to 18 mpg is of far more value to CAFE There is room in the market for a diesel and good on Ram fronting with one, all I'm suggesting is that Ford can achieve more fuel savings across more F 150 buyers by using a smaller more efficient Ecoboost engine which carries a lower price premium and behaves more like a downsized gasoline replacement than the diesel. I'm prepared to accept that I could be wrong on this score and Ford/GM may indeed sell diesel versions of their half ton trucks but knowing Ford's strong support for Ecoboost, I can't see them backing off... Edited July 4, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 An issue that has been recounted here on Blue Oval Forums is that the "winning 23 mpg" in 3.5L Ecoboost F-150 is extremely difficult to achieve in the real world - almost impossible if the vehicle is operated in a manner that would be considered "truck like." Of course, real world fuel economy of the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel remains to be seen. If other passenger car and light truck diesels are any indication, the diesel powered Ram should attain notably superior real world fuel economy to either its HEMI counterpart or to the 3.5L Ecoboost equipped F-150. But can the diesel get the additional 10-30% better fuel economy just to make up for the 10-30% higher cost of diesel fuel? Right now, diesel is 12% higher than regular gas here. In the winter, it's closer to 30%. So, take the average of 21%. Can the diesel get 21% better fuel economy in real-world driving? In loaded situations, I would say yes. In non-loaded situations, I would say know. Remember, I'm not a diesel basher...I drive one, and have first-hand knowledge of the postives and negatives of a diesel. For towing, I LOVE IT! For everyday driving, I'd rather have an EcoBoost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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