jcg1005 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this. I drive quite a bit for work. I have 4,400 miles on my car so far, and about 1,200 of that are miles outside of my daily commute. On three different occasions (and I bring up work driving because 2 of the 3 times this has happened, it has been on work trips) I have been forced to drive in pretty darn hard rain, and had the car tell me that the sensor (radar) for adaptive cruise had failed due to obstruction, fault... whatever. (I need to take a pic of it) No normally, I would say "Yeah no kidding. "It is raining like a *$*^#er" and re-set the cruise when the rain subsided. Nope. Can't. Cruise control is effectively broken until you do one of two things. 1). Go into assist settings on the left menu and change the cruise type to "Normal" instead of adaptive, or 2) Turn the car off and back on. I plan on complaining to Ford when I am in for service. I get that it fails temporarily, but come on. It doesn't recover? That just doesn't make sense to me. To me, proper "failure" should be an automatic switch to "Normal" setting until the system recovers. I don't even mind manually putting it back in automatic, or having it return to automatic next time you start the car. Having cruise control completely fail and be unusable without fussing with the settings just isn't right. Has anyone else experienced this, and is your behavior the same? While I am at it with this issue, I am going to take another shot at DRL activation, as well as, hopefully, some adjustments to the Automatic Headlight threshold and the rain sensitive wiper threshold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcelu Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I was under the impression that using cruise control on a wet road was inadvisable due to the risk of hydroplaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I was under the impression that using cruise control on a wet road was inadvisable due to the risk of hydroplaning. It is true that IF you hydroplane with cruise engaged it's the same as keeping your foot on the accelerator which is bad. However, if this happened and the vehicle began to lose control the limited slip and/or stability control would quickly correct it. Also note that using the cruise doesn't increase the risk of hydroplaning - just makes it harder to control if it occurs (without TC/SC). And yes - it's happened to me a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcg1005 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 As someone who has advanced training operating a vehicle and many, many years in my previous career operating vehicles in extreme conditions beyond what most people can handle, I certainly know when it is or isn't safe to use cruise control. The issue is that this happens at all. It should not essentially "break" the system. Have to change the settings or "power cycle" the car just isn't right. I don't know if the sensor will mess up if the car isn't actively engaged. I need to try that. (E.g press brake to disengage and then re-engage later) Lastly, road spray from a truck caused it to fail one of the times, and it wasn't raining all that hard. Thanks akirby for the acknowledgement that you have had it happen as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Of course it's not right. It could just be that the sensor is too sensitive to water or it could actually be a short somewhere in the wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JScullin Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I think the manual says that the sensors for these systems can be obstructed with dirt, bugs and heavy rain/snow. And that it could throw a code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmajical Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Does anyone know if this was fixed with the new update patch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverLS Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Page 187 in the owners manual says it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcg1005 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Correct - The problem is, that the system does NOT correct itself. The table about errors implies that you can "Wait a short time. It make take several minutes for the radar to detect that it is no longer obstructed". This is not the experienced behavior. Once the error comes up, it does not recover without turning the car off and re-starting it. You can toggle the cruise control between Adaptive and Normal in the menus all day and it will not recover without the car being powered down. In addition to this, the sensor, from my perspective, is too sensitive. I get it that when it is raining HARD, you probably shouldn't be using it anyway. However, even in moderate rain, road spray from surrounding vehicles will cause it to fail, and then you are out of luck for the rest of the trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 As someone who has advanced training operating a vehicle and many, many years in my previous career operating vehicles in extreme conditions beyond what most people can handle, I certainly know when it is or isn't safe to use cruise control. The issue is that this happens at all. It should not essentially "break" the system. Have to change the settings or "power cycle" the car just isn't right. I don't know if the sensor will mess up if the car isn't actively engaged. I need to try that. (E.g press brake to disengage and then re-engage later) Lastly, road spray from a truck caused it to fail one of the times, and it wasn't raining all that hard. Thanks akirby for the acknowledgement that you have had it happen as well. Unfortunately, Ford has to build the car to the "lowest common denominator" which assumes that their buyers do not get the "advanced training" you profess to have. Correct - The problem is, that the system does NOT correct itself. The table about errors implies that you can "Wait a short time. It make take several minutes for the radar to detect that it is no longer obstructed". This is not the experienced behavior. Once the error comes up, it does not recover without turning the car off and re-starting it. You can toggle the cruise control between Adaptive and Normal in the menus all day and it will not recover without the car being powered down. In addition to this, the sensor, from my perspective, is too sensitive. I get it that when it is raining HARD, you probably shouldn't be using it anyway. However, even in moderate rain, road spray from surrounding vehicles will cause it to fail, and then you are out of luck for the rest of the trip. Ahh, but the system DOES correct itself....when you power down the vehicle and restart it, the system re-cycles and is ready to go...bottom line is, if it raining hard enough to affect the system, maybe you should not be using it to begin with? Or at the very least, switch over to "normal" operation of the cruise control until the rain subsides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcg1005 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 ??? Am I asking to be flamed on here? Do you somehow think that this conversation isn't a valid one? 25 years in law enforcement with real driving training and driving in weather of all sorts does make me something of an expert in operating in adverse conditions. I didn't know I needed to post a resume along with my comments. The fact is, the system fails too soon, and doesn't reset without stopping the car. You mean to tell me that it is acceptable that if I drive through a brief downpour while on a long trip that if I want my adaptive cruise control back, I have to stop? Simply doesn't make sense, and that is exactly how it behaves. Perhaps if you were actually driving one of these vehicles, you would understand the flaw. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 ??? Am I asking to be flamed on here? Do you somehow think that this conversation isn't a valid one? 25 years in law enforcement with real driving training and driving in weather of all sorts does make me something of an expert in operating in adverse conditions. I didn't know I needed to post a resume along with my comments. The fact is, the system fails too soon, and doesn't reset without stopping the car. You mean to tell me that it is acceptable that if I drive through a brief downpour while on a long trip that if I want my adaptive cruise control back, I have to stop? Simply doesn't make sense, and that is exactly how it behaves. Perhaps if you were actually driving one of these vehicles, you would understand the flaw. There is a difference between "acceptable" and a "reasonable workaround". Should it force you to stop and restart the vehicle to reset it when it fails? Of course not. Is it the end of the world to pull over and restart it once and change it to regular cruise? I don't think so. Should they fix it so it resets on its own without a restart? Absolutely. I do drive one and this has happened to me 2 or 3 times in 8 months, the first one just a week after I bought it during a 3 hour trip. I understand the flaw but I also don't see it as a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 ??? Am I asking to be flamed on here? Do you somehow think that this conversation isn't a valid one? 25 years in law enforcement with real driving training and driving in weather of all sorts does make me something of an expert in operating in adverse conditions. I didn't know I needed to post a resume along with my comments. The fact is, the system fails too soon, and doesn't reset without stopping the car. You mean to tell me that it is acceptable that if I drive through a brief downpour while on a long trip that if I want my adaptive cruise control back, I have to stop? Simply doesn't make sense, and that is exactly how it behaves. Perhaps if you were actually driving one of these vehicles, you would understand the flaw. Don't need to get touchy touchy about it, and you are correct, my 2012 Fusion SEL does not have adaptive cruise control...however, when I buy a new Lincoln MKC (at least that is the plan at this point), I am sure it will have it as standard and I will see if it likewise affected. The "fact" is, the owners manual specifically says not to use the cruise control in the manner of which you now speak of and/or complain about. The problem is you refuse to acknowledge the disclaimer by touting your "experience" behind the wheel as an explanation of why you choose to ignore it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcg1005 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 I completely disagree with you, as do others I suspect. The owners manual specifically states you can "wait a few minutes" for the system to resume normal operation when a sensor is blocked / obstructed. It does not do that. Period. There is no argument here. It fails and the only way to reset it is to stop, turn the car off, and resume. That is not "waiting a few minutes for normal operation to resume". My experience only plays into the fact that I may use the system when others would not due to conditions. I have NO PROBLEM with the system disabling due to weather. My issue is with the steps that are required to resume normal function. The way it functions is not acceptable for the long term. I have no choice but to deal with it at this point. I am not the only one who has this concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy314 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I had this happen and it does work as described in the manual. It stopped operating as advised in the heavy rain, I let it go after it disengaged. A few miles down the road I'd forgotten about it not 'working' and it engaged normal cruise just fine. I was traveling at highway speeds for at least 5-10 minutes (I'd live toggled to normal cruise). When I realized I was on normal, I switched it back and it was happily adaptive again. It sounds a lot like it is working as designed for you too. It isn't a bug, more like Ford being overly cautious. You might mention it to them, but it doesn't seem too much to ask to let the system reset after a hazardous situation. Think of it as a limit of the technology, they cannot plan for everything and since everyone has a lawyer these days, they are being careful. Even if you don't want them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I had at least one occasion (maybe two) where it stopped working in rain but would not resume normal function even after the rain stopped. I think it's either a flaky sensor or a software bug. Maybe it's been fixed already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Often owner's manuals are written before the car is finalized, and usually there is more than one printing of the owner's manual throughout the model year to make changes that might come with production changes. From a safety standpoint, the system should HAVE to be reset to operate. Simply switching to 'Normal' without driver interaction of some sort is just begging for a lawsuit. Why? Because people will ignore ANY and ALL warnings that the adaptive function is gone and the cruise is set to "normal"..... Hello back of a schoolbus! As for not re-engaging, if the system thinks it has compromised at all it should function to off as a fail safe. If it cannot verify distances, the back of a schoolbus is always waiting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I completely disagree with you, as do others I suspect. The owners manual specifically states you can "wait a few minutes" for the system to resume normal operation when a sensor is blocked / obstructed. It does not do that. Period. There is no argument here. It fails and the only way to reset it is to stop, turn the car off, and resume. That is not "waiting a few minutes for normal operation to resume". My experience only plays into the fact that I may use the system when others would not due to conditions. I have NO PROBLEM with the system disabling due to weather. My issue is with the steps that are required to resume normal function. The way it functions is not acceptable for the long term. I have no choice but to deal with it at this point. I am not the only one who has this concern. Let me know when you bring it to the dealership and have them check it out...not saying that it is or isn't functioning as directed, but to come here and bitch about it BEFORE you take it to the dealer and have them at the very least check it out is just plain silly to me...but hey....you are the expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjh Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Often owner's manuals are written before the car is finalized, and usually there is more than one printing of the owner's manual throughout the model year to make changes that might come with production changes. From a safety standpoint, the system should HAVE to be reset to operate. Simply switching to 'Normal' without driver interaction of some sort is just begging for a lawsuit. Why? Because people will ignore ANY and ALL warnings that the adaptive function is gone and the cruise is set to "normal"..... Hello back of a schoolbus! As for not re-engaging, if the system thinks it has compromised at all it should function to off as a fail safe. If it cannot verify distances, the back of a schoolbus is always waiting! I agree it could be somewhat sketchy, but at the same time, a message and audible tone pops up saying adaptive cruise is not available once that point comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Which will still be ignored. Oil pressure warnings and knocking engines don't stop some people from ignoring warning messages. It is far better to force interaction so that, in a courtroom, no one can claim "I didn't know it was on/off" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcg1005 Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Again, I have no issues with it disabling itself in the rain. At all. What it should do, however, is reset itself when the conditions improve. It apparently doesn't do that. I had the car at the dealer on Wednesday, and they agree that the owners manual implies it will re-set. However, unless it is raining/snowing and they can drive it, then drive it in acceptable conditions long enough to see if it resets, they cannot test it. (Which makes sense) There are no TSBs on this. My next test, and who knows when I will be able to test it, is to see if it actually does reset if you leave it on but alone (i.e. not switch it to normal to get regular cruise back) long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 The fact that it resets when stopped and restarted says it's either a sensor or software problem. It should reset itself when the problem clears and it doesn't. It's not a big deal but I don't think it's working as designed either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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