mackinaw Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 From Bloomberg, via Automotive News: DETROIT (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. said today they would end a partnership to develop gasoline-electric systems for pickups and SUVs. Ford is on track to bring its rear-wheel-drive hybrid system to market later this decade, Raj Nair, the company’s product development chief, said by telephone. Toyota and Ford mutually agreed to end their collaboration after the research and development phase, he said. “Both parties gained from each other’s expertise and insight,” Nair said in the interview. “We’ve developed a lot of expertise in-house and determined we could deliver the system on our own.” Nair declined to be more specific on the timing. Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130723/OEM05/130729969#ixzz2ZtogWsRk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I think this is one area where Ford really is better off going it alone. Ford has little to gain and Toyota nothing to lose in partnering on fullsize trucks in just about any regard. Investments in new technology can likely be recouped far quicker on something like Ford's fullsize pickups than on smaller hybrids or EV's. I doubt Toyota can safely invest in a new hybrid system for the Tundra due to its low volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Sounds like both now know what each other wants to achieve and that it can't be delivered under the one engineering envelope... I'm glad this happened because there will be no doubts about patents and less likelihood of potential shortages by using mutual suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I expect at least one party learned all they wanted to know about the other. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm glad this happened because there will be no doubts about patentsand less likelihood of potential shortages by using mutual suppliers. Exactly what I was thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 These kinds of projects (more like joint technology investigations) come and go. It is a good way to spread out costs in the feasability stage, and then go their own ways when commercializing. Also, as it is for rear drive platforms, it may migrate beyond trucks and truck based SUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 There is really no surprise to the conclusion of this study for a number of reasons: 1. Toyota and Ford compete fiercely as full line producers. That's different than, say, cooperating with MB on fuel cell technology where Lincoln isn't even a nuisance to MB. 2. Both Toyota and Ford have independent capability to develop hybrid systems. 3. This would be an all-new system (not HSD or present Ford hybrid technology). Most likely, given the experience with the super-expensive GM/BMW hybrid box, I would imagine this system would be a clutched ISG (similar to Porsche). 4. Ford is strong in pickups; Toyota would like to be, but lags way behind expectations. Ford, therefore, should be the driver in this equation from engineering, product specification, and manufacturing standpoints. I've dealt with Toyota before (or tried to) on a proposed joint F/T project. They are f****** arrogant, and this would never work for them. In addition, any cooperation on the part of Ford could ultimately hurt Ford's market share if Toyota becomes more competitive. Nobody outside the company knows exactly what was shared between the parties. The initial conversations in this type of cooperation go very slowly, as both parties have likely been doing their own research and are very reluctant to tell a key competitor their plans. So you give up stuff to get stuff -- very carefully -- and hope you get as good as you give. I can imagine that conversations went very slowly the whole time. I should also mention that quantifying financial benefits can be very difficult. Having conversations with a key competitor on components costs is very, very delicate. And then sorting out key potential common components and determining the effect of the combined volume also can be very difficult. At the end of a failed foray, you have to destroy all of the material related to the discussions. I can say that at Ford we always followed the rules totally. Not sure I trust the other parties we dealt with to do the same.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think this is one area where Ford really is better off going it alone. Ford has little to gain and Toyota nothing to lose in partnering on fullsize trucks in just about any regard. Investments in new technology can likely be recouped far quicker on something like Ford's fullsize pickups than on smaller hybrids or EV's. I doubt Toyota can safely invest in a new hybrid system for the Tundra due to its low volume. I think your last sentence is key. I believe Toyota reviewed its business case for Tundra and said this is crazy. In fact, there is probably a fairly good chance that there won't be another Tundra. Toyota will just facelift the current one indefinitely and "ranger" it like they are doing to Tacoma right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I expect at least one party learned all they wanted to know about the other. nice twist Richard...dare I say Ford could teach Toyota more about pickups than Toyota could teach Ford about hybrids....hmmmm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) nice twist Richard...dare I say Ford could teach Toyota more about pickups than Toyota could teach Ford about hybrids....hmmmm I like this from Ford's Raj Nair, “Both parties gained from each other’s expertise and insight,” Nair said in the interview. “We’ve developed a lot of expertise in-house and determined we could deliver the system on our own.” Nair declined to be more specific on the timing. Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130723/OEM05/130729969#ixzz2a2v35EaT Edited July 25, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Speaking of hybrids, Toyota, and Ford, I noticed this interesting tidbit in a Toyota Motor Sales USA press release: According to data from R.L. Polk capturing registration year-to-date through May 2013, Californians bought five times more Toyota hybrids than its nearest competitor, Ford. General Motors' Chevrolet brand came in third with six percent. In a state known for environmental leadership, an overwhelming number of Californians turn to Toyota hybrids to deliver cleaner mobility, reliability and real-world fuel savings. In fact, registration data year-to-date through May 2013 shows Californians bought more Toyota hybrids than Ford sold passenger cars within its entire line-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Speaking of hybrids, Toyota, and Ford, I noticed this interesting tidbit in a Toyota Motor Sales USA press release: Be interesting to know what the numbers were 2 years ago to see how Ford has gained in that time frame (assuming Ford has gained, which I think is a fair assessment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Speaking of hybrids, Toyota, and Ford, I noticed this interesting tidbit in a Toyota Motor Sales USA press release: Note that Toyota didn't break down the hybrid sales by model. What should be noted of course is that Toyota's lead in hybrid sales in California is entirely due to Prius and Prius C, which Ford does not compete with directly. When you break down the segments where Ford and Toyota compete head to head, the results are much closer: - Fusion hybrid selling about as well as Camry hybrids - C-Max is out selling Prius V - MKZ hybrid is out selling ES300h and of course in prior years, Escape hybrid handily out sold Highlander hybrid in California - different size but similar buyer profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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