Bye Bye Taurus, Hello Escape

[V8-X]

Father-in-law has a 2010 Taurus as his company vehicle with about 80K miles on the clock. About 3 weeks ago the car was towed to the shop as it shut down while driving and was unable to restart. After being at the Ford dealer for 2.5wks and having various techs look at the vehicle, they are unable to determine the problem. They swapped in a new computer, as well as went through the normal routine of diagnosis to no avail. In a nut shell, they cannot determine the exact problem nor can they get the vehicle to fire up. The dealer has provided the only resolution is to replace the N/A 3.5L motor at a cost of $10K. Say what???

 

Of course my father-in-law and his company IR (Ingersoll Rand) have decided to cut their losses on the vehicle, scrap the Taurus and replace with a 2014 Escape. His normal vehicle replacement wasn't scheduled until next March, but can't have him in a rental 8 months. Father-in-law placed his order today, unsure of model he will receive (typically middle of the road), but aware it will be the "Sunset" color. Who knows when it'll be built and delivered, but will report back on my initial findings and experience.

 

From my experience on the on the 2010 Taurus, I had mixed feelings. The car was a great performer and during the 80K miles, provided my father-in-law practically 0 mechanical issues, except this major failure. Handled corners well, picked up speed fairly quickly for the weight and being the N/A 3.5L at altitude, and loved the paddle shifters. Interior was nice, but very cramped for the size. As for the build quality, it was very lacking. Various exterior trim pieces fell off and had to be replaced. Fuel door had alignment issues. Worst was the flaking and peeling paint that started to show over the past year on the hood, truck lid and bumpers. Sad to say, I would not recommend the Taurus to others due to the catastrophic engine failure and the numerous build quality issues. When new it was a beautiful car that ran like a top, unfortunately the long term reliability and quality doesn't appear to have been of high priority.

[RichardJensen]

There's a guy here in town with a new IR branded Escape.

[V8-X]

There's a guy here in town with a new IR branded Escape.

Cool! Yeah, no graphics on my father-in-laws vehicles. He's a salesman that handles CO, WY and parts of NM/KS if I'm not mistaken. So you'd never know he worked for IR, as the cars looked like stock Ford vehicles. He's had a 2002 Taurus, 2005 Explorer, 2007 Magnum and this 2010 Taurus as his most recent company vehicles.He loved the '02 Taurus, which he bought for his ex-wife after IR retired the vehicle. He liked the Explorer until it had the notorious tranny failure. The Magnum had to many quality issues, but was a good vehicle overall. The 2010 Taurus was lining up as one of his favorite company vehicles until this happened.

Edited August 8, 2013 by V8-X

[RichardJensen]

due to the catastrophic engine failure

 

My parents have a 2012 and have had none of these issues. They've had some issues with bubbling on the plastichrome taillight surrounds, but Ford has replaced those under warranty.

 

Also, it is odd that you would cite this in particular as a basis for not recommending any Taurus to anyone.

 

If the mechanics have no idea what happened, and Ford has no idea what happened, then it seems fairly clear that what happened was extremely unusual and therefore extremely unlikely?

 

I would as soon say that no one should ever live in Colorado because someone once died of unknown causes there.

Edited August 8, 2013 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Cool! Yeah, no graphics on my father-in-laws vehicles.

 

Yeah, I think this guy's a service tech. Based on the vehicles he's had, he used to work for Honeywell.

[aneekr]

Ingersoll Rand is one of Ford's most prominent fleet customers. Do you know if IR has spoken with Ford's North American Fleet, Lease and Remarketing Operations about the service issues with your father-in-law's Taurus? According to IR's Enterprise Fleet Manager, Jonathan Kamanns, the company's replacement interval for sedans and crossovers is typically 3 years/75,000 miles. So while in your father-in-law's case, his Taurus should have been retired next March (as you mentioned V8-X), it wasn't too far off IR's expected operating lifecycle.

 

Like other recent Fords, 2010+ Taurus has had its share of fit and finish problems, but the paint and exterior trim issues with your father-in-law's car seem to be particularly severe.

 

Anyway, I hope your father-in-law enjoys his new Ford Escape company vehicle and enjoys his work at IR, too.

Edited August 8, 2013 by aneekr

[RichardJensen]

Taurus has had its share of fit and finish problems

 

Again: My parents' only issue has been supplier-sourced taillight surrounds. Their '08 Taurus had significantly more issues.

[aneekr]

My parents' only issue has been supplier-sourced taillight surrounds.

 

Peeling chrome taillight surrounds seem to be the most common flaw by far, but some other 2010 - 2012 Taurus fit and finish issues that are mentioned multiple times in TrueDelta's repair histories include a loose brake light (CHMSL) assembly, rattles from the headliner, issues with trim pieces such as the bright window surround, and misaligned fenders, doors, and trunk.

 

In terms of mechanical problems, the transmission, climate control system, and brakes appear to be the most frequently reported areas with this generation Taurus.

 

Repair frequency overall is a bit on the high side for the MY 2010 Taurus, but better for 2011 and 2012.

Edited August 8, 2013 by aneekr

[ANTAUS]

Pretty scary that at a young 80K it dies, and in such a way that no one can figure it out. If the vehicle would be scrapped I would say best to just donate it to some mechanical organization, and see if they can figure it out. Sort of like donating a corpse for medical experimentation. Although a senario like this, would be enough to make myself (and i'm sure many others) swear off a brand completely. I would have a royal connption of epic porportions...not that it dies, but that no one can figure it out or fix it.

[V8-X]

Also, it is odd that you would cite this in particular as a basis for not recommending any Taurus to anyone.

 

If the mechanics have no idea what happened, and Ford has no idea what happened, then it seems fairly clear that what happened was extremely unusual and therefore extremely unlikely?

So not recommending a vehicle because of the various quality issues isn't enough of a reason to not recommend the vehicle? The complete engine failure at 80K miles was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

 

The paint now looks horrible, and my father-in-law takes good car of his cars. He and I were actually thinking about buying this vehicle when it was retired, but after adding all the issues up we began to 2nd guess that decision. Then of course the motor crapped the bed and ended the thought process.

 

Of course Ford fixed the majority of the fit/finish issues under warranty. But if the vehicle had so many issues in the first 3/36, let alone what was experienced during the next 44K miles, why would or should I recommend such a vehicle to someone?

 

Ingersoll Rand is one of Ford's most prominent fleet customers. Do you know if IR has spoken with Ford's North American Fleet, Lease and Remarketing Operations about the service issues with your father-in-law's Taurus? According to IR's Enterprise Fleet Manager, Jonathan Kamanns, the company's replacement interval for sedans and crossovers is typically 3 years/75,000 miles. So while in your father-in-law's case, his Taurus should have been retired next March (as you mentioned V8-X), it wasn't too far off IR's expected operating lifecycle.

 

Like other recent Fords, 2010+ Taurus has had its share of fit and finish problems, but the paint and exterior trim issues with your father-in-law's car seem to be particularly severe.

 

Anyway, I hope your father-in-law enjoys his new Ford Escape company vehicle and enjoys his work at IR, too.

I'm not sure exactly who at IR my father-in-law was working with regarding the Taurus issues. I've been receiving 2nd had information from him the last week regarding the ordeals he's been going through. I think they all agreed or IR simply informed him that based on years and miles (3yrs - 80K) of service, that it'd be in everyone's best interest to simply put him in a new vehicle and avoid putting $10K into such a vehicle when it was scheduled to be replaced soon anyways.

 

I hope he enjoys the Escape, but I have my doubts. He never liked the old Escape and doesn't like the new Escape. Others he works with have had the Escapes for a while, and he always mentions how much he prefers the driving dynamics, style and overall vehicle that the Taurus was when compared to the Escape. We'll see if he warms up to the Escape though. Heck, I'm sure he won't complain, cause a company car is always much better than using your own. As for working for IR, he loves it. I've known him for about 15yrs, when I met my wife and he's worked there the entire time. Heck, he recently got the contract back with my employer. Of course my employer went the bean counter route and went with another company and product for a while. But after experience with the shoddy products and service, my employer decided a few months back to go back to using IR. My father-in-law warned them then, and now he's back, so I'm happy about that.

[V8-X]

Pretty scary that at a young 80K it dies, and in such a way that no one can figure it out. If the vehicle would be scrapped I would say best to just donate it to some mechanical organization, and see if they can figure it out. Sort of like donating a corpse for medical experimentation. Although a senario like this, would be enough to make myself (and i'm sure many others) swear off a brand completely. I would have a royal connption of epic porportions...not that it dies, but that no one can figure it out or fix it.

Exactly what we thought.

 

And of course being a Ford guy, and my father-in-law being a Mopar guy, you know I'm getting crap over this. Heck just when he was warming up to Ford products, this happens. I sure hope his Escape doesn't have some of the issues his co-workers have experienced and what people have posted here about the Escape.

[RichardJensen]

So not recommending a vehicle because of the various quality issues isn't enough of a reason to not recommend the vehicle?

 

It's enough. But that's not all the reasons that you cited.

 

If you're going to recommend against something, shouldn't it be on the basis of things *likely* to occur?

 

Like, "I'd recommend against the Taurus because there were a succession of minor issues that would leave you continually annoyed with the vehicle"--which was kind of my parents' experience with the previous Taurus.

 

Now compare that with, "I'd recommend against the Taurus because something totally inexplicable could happen to it that nobody has ever seen before."

[RichardJensen]

I mean, consider that when your dad's car for lack of a better term, 'bricked', nobody at Ford said, "Oh, that's from a bad Spignut Box. Just replace it and make sure the connections with the Ziftkipper are secure.

[V8-X]

It's enough. But that's not all the reasons that you cited.

 

If you're going to recommend against something, shouldn't it be on the basis of things *likely* to occur?

 

Like, "I'd recommend against the Taurus because there were a succession of minor issues that would leave you continually annoyed with the vehicle"--which was kind of my parents' experience with the previous Taurus.

 

Now compare that with, "I'd recommend against the Taurus because something totally inexplicable could happen to it that nobody has ever seen before."

Confused. Isn't that what I said in my initial post to start this thread (and displayed below)? Due to the engine failure AND numerous build quality issues? Sounds like I covered both areas of concern. Sounds like you are just cherry picking my post and not taking the entire content into the equation.

 

Never said the engine failure was the only reason I wouldn't recommend it. Actually complemented the car about the capability of the 3.5L here at altitude in such a heavy vehicle, so please re-read my initial post. You'll find that overall I liked the car and would want to recommend it. Heck even thought about buying it when it was retired from IR (do a search on some of my posts on this site and you'll find I stated as much). But first due to the many quality issues, and then ultimately due to the engine failure, I will not be purchasing it from IR.

 

Sad to say, I would not recommend the Taurus to others due to the catastrophic engine failure and the numerous build quality issues. When new it was a beautiful car that ran like a top, unfortunately the long term reliability and quality doesn't appear to have been of high priority.

Edited August 8, 2013 by V8-X

[EBFlex]

Confused. Isn't that what I said in my initial post to start this thread (and displayed below)? Due to the engine failure AND numerous build quality issues? Sounds like I covered both areas of concern. Sounds like you are just cherry picking my post and not taking the entire content into the equation.

 

Never said the engine failure was the only reason I wouldn't recommend it. Actually complemented the car about the capability of the 3.5L here at altitude in such a heavy vehicle, so please re-read my initial post. You'll find that overall I liked the car and would want to recommend it. Heck even thought about buying it when it was retired from IR (do a search on some of my posts on this site and you'll find I stated as much). But first due to the many quality issues, and then ultimately due to the engine failure, I will not be purchasing it from IR.

 

Yeah, I don't see how anyone could recommend a vehicle that dies at 80K miles and even the company that built the thing doesn't have a clue and is just scratching their heads with a confused look on their face. Ford would be wise to provide him (well, IR) with a complimentary engine and taken the old one and study it so they can learn why it happened.

Edited August 9, 2013 by EBFlex

[RichardJensen]

If something bizarre and unheard of happened to my car, it wouldn't stop me from recommending that car to someone else.

 

Probability trumps personal experience. Or do you base your decisions on the gambler's fallacy?

[fordtech1]

Catastrophic failure on a 3.5 is very rare. Just like it was on the 3.0 DOHC in the old Taurus. I have only seen one 3.5 that was toast. Interesting how some people have such different experiences. I have a customer with a 09 Flex with 170k on it. He will easily tell you how this has been the best car he has owned, he traded in a Nissan in 09. Just recently he has had some needed repairs, axle seal, o2 sensors, cooling fan.

 

2010 Taurus did have some fit and finish issues, brake noise issues, a few transmission sensor issues, a/c blend door actuator issues. But I personally would not be against buying one for worries of problems. Overall, they have been pretty solid.

 

But really, to have an engine to fail so suddenly without any warning is very unusual.

Edited August 9, 2013 by fordtech1

[351cid]

One observation....engine failure is to me when it blows up; ie bearings siezed, camshaft broke, crank broke, piston melted. I've never heard of anyone replacing an engine because it won't start. Hell, I had a 351W than ran two weeks with a miss. I discovered it was missing because a rod broke...but it started everyday and made no funny noises.

 

With the amount of electronics involved with today's cars, that's where I would be looking. My $10 bet would be on an obscure ground somewhere. One of the concerns I have for dealership techs is they aren't encouraged to be true mechanics. Not trying to offend anyone, but it was getting that way when I was a Buick tech in the 80's. They are encouraged to be more parts replacers than to diagnose and repair.

[EBFlex]

Hell, I had a 351W than ran two weeks with a miss. I discovered it was missing because a rod broke...but it started everyday and made no funny noises.

 

Wow...they certainly don't make them like they used to. That's crazy.

[351cid]

I have "tested the strength" of many engines over the years and that one was the only one I've ever seen that a rod broke when the piston was at TDC and also broke at the crank journal. Upon autopsy, the bearings weren't even scored on that particular cylinder. Truly one of the wildest things I've ever encountered.

 

Buddy bought a 1982 Mustang with a 2.3L. It was missing badly and had low compression in cylinders #2 & #3. I pulled the head anticipating a blown head gasket but it turns out those two pistons had the ring lands broken. It still ran on two cylinders though.

[RichardJensen]

'ring lands'?

[351cid]

'ring lands'?

 

The area on the outer part of the piston that the rings fit into.

[351cid]

Shoulders of the grooves, if you will.

[73mach1]

Sounds to me like the greatest sales pitch ever. Eh we can't get it to start so 10000 or you can buy a new one. Well what's your choice. Oh company car let me show you fleet deals. The duratecs are some of the easiest engines to work on in my opinion after working on thousands of 3.0l.

[RichardJensen]

Shoulders of the grooves, if you will.

 

And that broke? Weird. Sounds almost like the metal might've gotten contaminated during casting